EPT[H] Getting high - Page 11
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On December 21 2007 04:45 nA.Inky wrote: Many drug users, particularly users of the more intense mind altering drugs (the psychedelics such as mushrooms, LSD, mescaline, DMT, and so on) will tell you that drug use is the ticket to enlightenment, great insight, information, and so on. It is true that the more powerful psychedelic drugs can deliver all kinds of powerful experiences. But it is also true that you do not need drugs to gain insight or enlightenment. People have gained wisdom, insight, and enlightenment for thousands of years without drugs. I would argue that it is far better to learn yourself and your world directly, soberly, than through a drug. It is not that I am squarely against psychedelics either. I have used them, and it is possible I will use them in the future on very rare occasion. But to embrace drugs as the ticket to wisdom and deep experience is very foolhardy. These drugs, and we should include weed in this discussion, can give powerful experiences, but for all that they MAY give, they can also very much take away. They can leave you mentally shattered. They can leave you burned out. LSD as the ticket to wisdom and enlightenment? Oh... how many hippies and druggies I have known that seemed no wiser than anyone else, despite their many LSD trips and mushroom trips. Enlightenment and wisdom are written all over how you actively live your life, day by day. How many drug users do you see that are the epitome of enlightenment? Most of them I know are average or below average folks who liked to party a lot. Many are depressed, without any sense of direction, and lonely. They do not inspire me with their thoughts, their "insights," or their way of life. Enlightenment comes through serious contemplation, dedication, discipline, and work. If you think you can truly touch the deepest things in life through a few drug trips, you are a fool. I don't know if entirely agree with your position here. While i defnitely agree that wisdom and enlightenment can be garnered through hard work, dedication, and contemplation, i wholly believe that someone who has all those things and experiences mind-altered states of consciousness will have learned far more. (i say mind-altered instead of drug in this case, as i am including meditation, runners-high, fasting, etc, in addition to being un-sober). It is incredibly difficult for a person to take themselves outside of their regular ways of thinking, percieving, and experiencing. I believe a person begins to know themself far better through experiencing their person when they are not themself. However, i may just be a fool. I'm cool with that. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
While I think you're taking a little hardline stance on drugs Inky, I do agree that people get themselves into shit—coke, shrooms, weed WHATEVER—without knowing what they are doing. People in general are fucking irresponsible in all aspects of life. I kinda realize this more and more as I get older =[ | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
The thing is, I would rather people err on the side of caution. These drugs, particularly the psychedelics, are very powerful. I do not believe teenagers should be using them at all, period. I think these are for responsible adults. If there is any doubt about whether you ought to be using them or whether it is safe, then you shouldn't use them. The attitude of the 60's, and the attitudes of the modern druggies are highly irresponsible. Very few people I have known that use these drugs seem responsible enough by my standards. That might sound pretty arrogant or condescending (sorry for seeming that way to you, Coagulation - I mean it!), but keep in mind that I am pro legalization. I am all about freedom to choose in this regard, but I still think we ought to be clear about the dangers and we should encourage the utmost in responsibility. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
The dangers are constantly overexaggerated, and quite honestly, I'd like it if instead of the 'say no' and all of the exaggerated dangers, they gave real facts. (look at reefer madness and so many of the Govt. sponsored 'studies', that's what I'm talkin about). Kind of like how sex ed is taught. Yeah, they tell you the best bet and safest way is to just wait until your married. But instead of pretending that if you just say no kids aren't going to do it, you give them real information. I'm sure that idea has plenty of flaws on it's own, but currently, I don't think DARE and above the influence and all that is really doing a whole lot for our youth. They desrve to be educated, not scared shitless with lies. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
Much of the demonization of drugs has to do with diverting attention from systemic flaws in the American system (poverty, racial injustice, etc). With each new drug scare, there is some problem lurking in the background that the government does not want us to deal with. A lot of it really is based in racism. The government does spread a lot of misinformation about drugs, and this causes people to lose trust in the government. Unfortunately, it also creates an environment where it is difficult to know what is true and what is not true about drugs. This is a dangerous situation. Hawk says: "They [the students, the public] desrve to be educated, not scared shitless with lies." Agreed 100% | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On December 22 2007 09:20 nA.Inky wrote: Hawk, you are absolutely right. The government's approach to drugs is beyond retarded. It is pathetic. So the government should be ok with cocaine and heroin use? i agree with the rest of your post though.. It should be marijuana in your post, not drugs. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
But this is waaaaaaay off topic. Guess we've been off topic for awhile now. To bring it back, when I used to smoke weed a lot, I would get shortness of breath, a racing heart, and cold hands too! Truly not healthy stuff, that marijuana. Glad I don't do it anymore. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On December 22 2007 12:04 nA.Inky wrote: Yeah Amber, I think heroin and cocaine should be legalized. I think much of the problems surrounding those drugs would evaporate if they were legal. Of course I don't think people should be doing them, but people shouldn't be smoking weed either, or doing lots of other things for that matter. I just don't see it as the governments business to regulate this stuff. But this is waaaaaaay off topic. Guess we've been off topic for awhile now. To bring it back, when I used to smoke weed a lot, I would get shortness of breath, a racing heart, and cold hands too! Truly not healthy stuff, that marijuana. Glad I don't do it anymore. So you think the effects of heroin will become less addictive if it was legalized? ;p Those are proved to be a direct result of use of the drug. I'm gonna take it you're a strong meth supporter as well =D EDIT: Dont open the spoiler if you're squeamish + Show Spoiler + | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On December 22 2007 05:57 Hawk wrote: Nice post Mora. That's more or less where I'm at now. JW, did you get drug tested for your programing job? Most programmers smoke pot. Coincidentally, most programming jobs won't drug test. :D | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
On December 22 2007 12:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: So you think the effects of heroin will become less addictive if it was legalized? ;p Those are proved to be a direct result of use of the drug. I'm gonna take it you're a strong meth supporter as well =D EDIT: Dont open the spoiler if you're squeamish + Show Spoiler + I think he's talking about how the criminal element would more or less disappear if they were legalized. Think like how it was during the prohibition back in the early 1900s. Making alchy illegal gave rise to organized crime. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want it all legalized. I just think the current system is pretty dumb. Weed 100% should be, I'm not too sure about everythin else. | ||
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AmorVincitOmnia
Kenya3846 Posts
On December 22 2007 12:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: So you think the effects of heroin will become less addictive if it was legalized? ;p Those are proved to be a direct result of use of the drug. I'm gonna take it you're a strong meth supporter as well =D EDIT: Dont open the spoiler if you're squeamish + Show Spoiler + ehh.. legalization of harder drugs is definitely a two sided blade, you've got the obvious negatives such as.. well, heroin being legal and junkies being able to go into wal-mart to get their fix. but on the other hand, the most dangerous thing about drugs, not even just hard drugs, is that you really don't know what you're getting unless you made it yourself. i'll be honest, i like my cocaine. i've seen some people try and sell me some NASTY shit, shit i wouldn't give to my worst fucking enemy. i ask em what they cut it with, and half the time they didn't even cut it themselves. anyways, legalization eliminates that problem because then you're getting your drugs from the same reliable source every time. i don't think Tylenol will cut their shit with motor oil just to weigh it down a little more. one more point, weed is always called a gateway drug. if you smoke weed, you'll be shooting up in no time. why is that? because of the people you tend to meet once you start buying weed. if we eliminated the need to go into a black market, we'd never have to meet those shady people that introduce us to harder drugs. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On December 23 2007 05:43 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: one more point, weed is always called a gateway drug. if you smoke weed, you'll be shooting up in no time. why is that? because of the people you tend to meet once you start buying weed. if we eliminated the need to go into a black market, we'd never have to meet those shady people that introduce us to harder drugs. That would turn Walmart/Tylenol into the "Shady people" and im pretty sure they have a much larger influence on the public then that crack head on the corner | ||
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AmorVincitOmnia
Kenya3846 Posts
i'll be a faggot and reference prohibition: alcohol was illegal at one point, and now businesses carry it in their stores without being called "shady". i realize there's a lot more of a stigma behind most drugs, but in terms of legality/morales (i've seen alcohol fuck up more people than i have any drug) there really is no difference. i mean, it's no secret that Bayer made heroin. yet they're still around? edit: sorry i found this funny ![[image loading]](http://www.duvekot.ca/eliane/archives/Bayer_Heroin_bottle.jpg) | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
However, tragic cases arise from the availability and acceptance of alcohol. There will always be sad stories, whether these drugs are legal or illegal, just as there are sad stories that have nothing to do with drugs. Hawk is right, much of my reasoning has to do with taking the crime aspect out of drug issues. Illegal drugs undermine the government, respect for the law, and cause law enforcement to be corrupted (see prohibition for a key example.) Furthermore (as was the case with the alcohol prohibition), prohibition tends to cause drugs to increase in potency (more bang for your buck) and decrease in safety. People went blind from some of the alcohol during the prohibition era because it was improperly made. Today, people cut heroin and cocaine with all kinds of nasty stuff in order to increase profit. This makes the drugs more dangerous. Also, drugs are more expensive via the black market than they would be if the drugs were legal. Part of paying for illegal drugs is paying for the risk that the growers, movers, and dealers have to take on to get the drugs to you. Much of the problem with heroin (not necessarily coke) is that people can't afford the habit. They turn to crime and they also sacrifice healthy interests for the sake of their habit. Making the drug cheaper and more available for addicts would arguably ease these problems. A perfect solution? Hardly. But the world is dangerous no matter how we slice it, and I say let people decide for themselves how to deal with life. The drug war isn't working anyway. | ||
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BaDayOri
Korea (South)469 Posts
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zonbi
Hungary514 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.freewebs.com/towelianism/towelie.jpg) | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
On December 23 2007 07:46 zonbi wrote: LOL. Pretty much sums up my feelings right about now. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
On December 23 2007 07:14 nA.Inky wrote: Much of the problem with heroin (not necessarily coke) is that people can't afford the habit. They turn to crime and they also sacrifice healthy interests for the sake of their habit. Making the drug cheaper and more available for addicts would arguably ease these problems. Can't you get heroin as cheap as like 3-5$ for a fix? A gram of coke costs a lot more than that. It's always been viewed as the 'rich' drug? | ||
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
most ppl who don't do drugs are simply afraid of what would happen. i think life is about taking risks and trying new things. i'm not interested in wearing a seat belt or using a helmet wherever i go. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://drugrecognition.com/images/arm.jpg)
