Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 52

On March 15 2022 07:33 Oukka wrote:
I saw the story of the FSB agents being evacuated/houses suddenly on the market in Crimea story in some twitter feeds that I'd consider reliable. The story seems plausible enough anyways. How does its credibility look/sound like from where your getting the info from Dav1oN? Like it could still be something else too, than an outright evacuation.

On March 15 2022 07:58 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:The reality is that a Country is being destroyed by a single man decission and no one cant do shit. OTAN/ONU. Didnt Russia bombarded close to 30 km from Otan border(Poland) already ? Im pretty sure if that was the case in USA. Something like 200km They will be striking like crazy. Remember how Trump striked in Syria cuz her daughter showed him kids dying etc ? Call me crazy but this is way worse.

On March 15 2022 05:22 Vivax wrote:


Well good luck seizing Russian gold in Russia, FX are probably on a computer in the central bank. Italian and French govs have seized random billionaires yachts so the seizures already happened, but they won't get accredited as payment.

Can't wait for Austria to decide it wants South Tyrol back and disown me cause I have both citizenships if this is the new moral standard around here.

On March 15 2022 10:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
It is difficult to obtain real information about what is happening on the battlefield.
Chinese media said that the reasons for the Ukrainian war were complex, but also mentioned that the Donbas region was bullied and slaughtered by the Ukrainian government, which did not allow the Donbas region to become independent.
If the Donbas region can vote for its independence, will it be able to build an independent state?
Didn't Northern Ireland always want independence?
If independence can be achieved through a referendum at will, does it not belong to secession?

On March 15 2022 11:34 Acrofales wrote:

There's a few regions in the world where secession is not going to be accepted through a referendum. Western Sahara is one, Donbas is another, and Northern Ireland is another.

There are a number of reasons for this. In Donbas it's simply that there has been a civil war raging there for the last 10 years or so. The only people still there are (1) militant independentists, (2) incapable of fleeing the region, or (3) Russian paramilitary. That means an election right now would be overwhelmingly won by independentists, but not give fair representation to a lot of the citizens who would want to go home. These refugees might also want independence, or they might not.

So the answer, you say, is that the referendum is held at some point in the future when the refugees who want to return have done so. This brings us to the case of Western Sahara. Fearing exactly such a referendum would go against Western Sahara becoming independent of Morocco, Morocco has incentivized Moroccans from other parts of the country to relocate to Western Sahara to such an extent that Saharoui are now a minority in their own region. Of course, this went paired with repression, causing Saharoui to flee to Algeria, and awful diplomatic relations between the two neighboring countries for the last 30 years or so). So now we're truly screwed. Do we only allow "original citizens" to vote? But how do we even establish that? Also, it's not the newly settled citizens' fault, why shouldn't they get a voice? What does a referendum mean in such a situation?

And that brings us to Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland has been peaceful in a best-of-both-worlds situation for the last 30ish years. You might be able to hold a referendum, but support for leaving the UK has historically not been a majority, just a very vocal and violent minority. They had a referendum in 1973 and it showed pretty much that (both the minority and the violence part). A referendum isn't always enough for peace (IRA didn't suddenly stop fighting just because popular opinion was against them): you'd need (all) the militant opposition to agree to abide by its outcome. Neither the polisario in Western Sahara nor the Donbas independentists seem likely to do so, just as the IRA wasn't in the 70s.

On March 15 2022 07:46 SC-Shield wrote:
Argument that this belonged to us X decades ago "so it's rightfully ours" is so bad, imagine if we go back a few centuries. E.g. Bulgaria back in X century or all other countries on this map claiming x, y, z belong to them. This is World War 3 easy. :D

Map
+ Show Spoiler +

In short, Putin is yet another dictator like Hitler and Stalin. He is a strawman, looking for any excuse to invade, so we probably shouldn't debate land disputes as it's a waste of time.

On March 15 2022 16:46 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
What Xinjiang hopes for independence is a very small number of militants, or terrorist organizations, who attack not only the Han people, but also the Uighur people. As long as they think they are people with different political views, they will be attacked by them.
Several terrorist attacks caused thousands of casualties, and both Han and Uygur people were attacked.
Most Uighurs want a safe and peaceful life, do not want independence or war, and hate terrorists under the banner of separatism.
The fact is that the living standards of Uighurs have been improving. Now the Chinese government has been committed to combating terrorists, and terrorist activities have almost disappeared recently.
Xinjiang has always been a part of China's territory and is not an independent country. I don't know how your media reported Xinjiang. Did they report that the Chinese government massacred people in Xinjiang or genocide in Xinjiang?
In fact, we resent the government's attitude towards Xinjiang.that is, it is too good for a few ethnic groups such as Xinjiang and Tibet. Han people will be sentenced to death for murder. Xinjiang people will be imprisoned for a few years at most, Han people will be sentenced to 5-10 years for robbery, Xinjiang people may be imprisoned for only one year for robbery, and there are many inequalities, Xinjiang people and other ethnic minorities have too many favorable policies in China. We Han people only hope that the government can achieve equality for all. In fact, the lowest status is Han people, and the highest status is Xinjiang people and Tibetans (their status is higher than that of other ethnic minorities)

On March 15 2022 07:58 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Manit0u
Does anyone think that if Ukraine can break Russia's attack and force them to retreat there's a chance they might also retake Crimea? That would most likely be the final blow to Putin's dreams of conquest and power as it would pretty much undo everything he did in the past 10 years and shatter his image.


I remember watching the news and see shit like.Ukraine is done. Russia will take it in 2-3 days.Then i see the news Putin called the chechens. Turns out one of the most dangerous generals was taken out in the first fight.Chechens took the L.

Anyway news/media maybe are not always telling us the truth or the most accurate thing.

Now they saying Russia is asking China for help ? When in theory Russia is maybe the third most powerful army in the world ?

So who knows if Russian army and ukranien army actually at some point decide enough is enough and they kick Putin ass.

The reality is that a Country is being destroyed by a single man decission and no one cant do shit. OTAN/ONU. Didnt Russia bombarded close to 30 km from Otan border(Poland) already ? Im pretty sure if that was the case in USA. Something like 200km They will be striking like crazy. Remember how Trump striked in Syria cuz her daughter showed him kids dying etc ? Call me crazy but this is way worse.

On March 15 2022 17:57 Samsakzerg wrote:


Go spread your lies elsewhere. I dont know if you are an average brainwashed chinese citizen or a wu mao (5 cent propoganda poster employed by the Chinese communist party) but Uyghurs want their independence. They are different from Han chinese, they dont want to live with you. Why cant you let them be and then become friends, trade, communcate? Why cant you respect a different people? Or admit you han chinese are invaders.

Same as Putin, your government will fall too. People want to breath and live freely more than anything, take your development and shove it up you know where.

1 million Uyghurs in camps, intellectuals captured, centenced to death or life for promoting their language and culture. It is a genocide aimed at destroying and removing the Uyghur culture from the face of Earth. Uyghur kids are not taught their language anymore, all the Uyghur academic system has been destroyed. Ladies are being forcibly sterilized.

The list will go on. STATUS? WHAT STATUS? We have no status. Yes I am an ethnic Uyghur, been living abroad for years now, lived in China until I was an adult.

Dont you ever speak for me or my people again. Terrorism in Xinjiang is only conducted by your army, your police and government, Uyghurs dont have guns, when you kill their families and take their land a few will go outside with a knife, when there is nothing left to live for, what else would you have done?

Ridiculous 5 cent poster or a brainwashed citizen(Whom I feel sorry for, please read more than your CCP propoganda).

On March 15 2022 08:20 Dav1oN wrote:


I've seen those news both in ukrainian media, russian/belarus opposition media and some foreign sources as well. Including screenshots from the websites which are dedicated for buying and selling housing (didn't check the websites on my own, but probably will do so just out of curiosity).

The whole topic of the news credibility is incredibly hard, and one must filter the news all the time, including biases and propaganda. I got used to work with the big datasets of information daily due to my job, but even for me sometimes it's hard to filter. It takes a lot of energy and time, requires you to stay focused. Let's assume by default that even the most credible sources sometimes tends to make mistakes for various (natural and not only) reasons. Having less mistakes/biases means the source is more credible overall, just a simple math.

Will try to describe the sources i'm looking at from time to time:

In regards to the things that happening in Krarkiv, I still got friends and relatives who decided to stay across different districts in the city despite the situation. Hopefully their luck continues. They are the first reliable sources, including pics and videos if required. In addition we are having some public channels which are posting many updates in regards to local news (mostly) and ukrainian/global news (to a lesser extend), with videos, pics, info and warnings about possible airstrikes (in my estimation 80% of the news published there are correct). Here is one of the public channels in telegram if you are interested in (most of the news/info is published in russian/ukrainian, but u'll get the point) https://t.me/hueviykharkov

When it comes to twitter feed, I rely on ukrainian and foreign journalists (ex: Illia Ponomarenko) which are based in Ukraine and covering the situation locally across the country (can provide a bunch of links if you are interested as well), some of our government officials like the governor of Mykolaiv Vitaly Kim (original posts are in telegram channels), major of Kyiv Vitaly Klitschko, major of Kharkiv Igor Terekhov (original posts via telegram channels as well) plus checking a bunch of russian opposition/journalists (some of them exiled, the others worked for the Echo of Moscow radio station), pages like Garry Kasparov, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Yulia Latynina, most of the oppoition from anti-corruption fund of Alexey Navalny, Belarus free media Nexta, international hacking community Anonymous and a few others.

On March 15 2022 10:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
It is difficult to obtain real information about what is happening on the battlefield.
Chinese media said that the reasons for the Ukrainian war were complex, but also mentioned that the Donbas region was bullied and slaughtered by the Ukrainian government, which did not allow the Donbas region to become independent.
If the Donbas region can vote for its independence, will it be able to build an independent state?
Didn't Northern Ireland always want independence?
If independence can be achieved through a referendum at will, does it not belong to secession?

On March 15 2022 18:55 Oukka wrote:

Thanks for elaborating on this! I didn't mean to ask you to list every place you get your news from, but I'm very grateful that you did anyways. Ponomarenko at least has been often the source from which some Anglophone commentators are pulling from.

I'm too bothered about links at this point, the names seem familiar enough that I am either reading some of them already or they get referred to in the pieces I'm reading. But do post if you think it's valuable / want to endorse something that you think might be underreported elsewhere.

Stay safe out there.