|
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
On March 14 2022 23:27 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:20 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:06 Simberto wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. Many good policies issued by the supreme government and implemented by the most grass-roots government are not necessarily very good. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. Eastern Prussia has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Alsace-Lorraine has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Fucking Egypt has been part of the Roman empire since ancient times, which Italians think is indisputable. This line of reasoning is so absurd. Things change. Every country has claims on everything in every other country if you go back far enough. The only sane way to move forward is to ignore this bullshit, and just accept how stuff is now. Taiwan is not part of China. The people living in Taiwan don't want to be part of China. So just let them be. This is our childhood education. You can call it brainwashing. Chinese over the age of 50 prefer to conquer Taiwan by force. Most of them have no higher education. Young people aged 2-30 are also willing to recover Taiwan, but hope for a peaceful way. Many countries in the world have territorial disputes. When they are weak, they can't recover their territory. The Falklands war shows this fact. China's philosophy in recent decades is to vigorously develop the economy and improve its comprehensive strength. It will not take the initiative to provoke war, but it will not fear any forces. However, the current Chinese leaders are different from the previous leaders. The previous Chinese leaders only made every effort to develop the economy. The current leaders hope to have great political achievements, hope to have the same status as Chairman Mao and have the ambition to recover Taiwan by force. However, you should know that well-educated young people basically do not support the recovery of Taiwan by force, Now China has 10 million college graduates a year, and we don't know what will happen in the future. I think i have a hard time following you, because i can not exactly determine which of the things you say are your opinion and which are the things you think most people in China believe but, which you disagree with. I can identify your core points, but i cannot identify which of these two categories they fit in.
I'm glad to exchange views with people from other countries here.
There are few Chinese people living in China who honestly express their views. It is difficult for you to understand China only through the media of your country, and even through the media of China.
|
Yeah that's pretty consistent with the propaganda I see on the internet. They want to conquer Taiwan but also know it's not worth the cost. They'll sail into their global power status with nothing near them to conquer and will just colonize their west and south.
What do they tell people in China about the railroads and the housing market bubbles?
|
United States42008 Posts
On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different.
The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people.
In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one.
To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree.
|
On March 14 2022 23:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:20 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:06 Simberto wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. Many good policies issued by the supreme government and implemented by the most grass-roots government are not necessarily very good. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. Eastern Prussia has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Alsace-Lorraine has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Fucking Egypt has been part of the Roman empire since ancient times, which Italians think is indisputable. This line of reasoning is so absurd. Things change. Every country has claims on everything in every other country if you go back far enough. The only sane way to move forward is to ignore this bullshit, and just accept how stuff is now. Taiwan is not part of China. The people living in Taiwan don't want to be part of China. So just let them be. This is our childhood education. You can call it brainwashing. Chinese over the age of 50 prefer to conquer Taiwan by force. Most of them have no higher education. Young people aged 2-30 are also willing to recover Taiwan, but hope for a peaceful way. Many countries in the world have territorial disputes. When they are weak, they can't recover their territory. The Falklands war shows this fact. China's philosophy in recent decades is to vigorously develop the economy and improve its comprehensive strength. It will not take the initiative to provoke war, but it will not fear any forces. However, the current Chinese leaders are different from the previous leaders. The previous Chinese leaders only made every effort to develop the economy. The current leaders hope to have great political achievements, hope to have the same status as Chairman Mao and have the ambition to recover Taiwan by force. However, you should know that well-educated young people basically do not support the recovery of Taiwan by force, Now China has 10 million college graduates a year, and we don't know what will happen in the future. The Falklands is the opposite to your example. It was never part of Argentina, it was claimed by Spain, France, and Britain but only Britain settled it. Argentina claimed that it inherited the Spanish claim but the Spanish claim doesn’t stand up. It is not in Argentinian territorial waters and the people who live there are British. They speak English, not Spanish, and they want to stay in Britain. That last point is the most important one. Britain recently gave Scotland a choice whether it wanted to leave the union. A people should not be subjected to a government that they do not choose, that does not represent them. Such a government is not legitimate. The PRC attempt to impose their government on ROC is not legitimate because the people of ROC do not want it. You would not force a woman who does not want to marry you to be your wife. And if you did force her to marry you it would not be a successful marriage, the reasons she had wouldn’t be fixed by forcing her, and she would resent you. The same applies for forcing people to be in a government they oppose.
You're right. I agree with you.
But you should also understand that the education of Chinese people is different from yours. The education we have always received is that the country is the government. When we receive higher education, we will also learn about the situation abroad through the Internet, which will affect our views. Many young people also understand that the country is not equal to the government. We love the country but not necessarily the government.
This is the young people I mentioned earlier who want to recover Taiwan peacefully. This means that Taiwanese can choose to come back or not. My parents, who are 5-60 years old, will support the recovery of Taiwan by force.
|
United States42008 Posts
On March 14 2022 23:55 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:40 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:20 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:06 Simberto wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. Many good policies issued by the supreme government and implemented by the most grass-roots government are not necessarily very good. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. Eastern Prussia has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Alsace-Lorraine has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Fucking Egypt has been part of the Roman empire since ancient times, which Italians think is indisputable. This line of reasoning is so absurd. Things change. Every country has claims on everything in every other country if you go back far enough. The only sane way to move forward is to ignore this bullshit, and just accept how stuff is now. Taiwan is not part of China. The people living in Taiwan don't want to be part of China. So just let them be. This is our childhood education. You can call it brainwashing. Chinese over the age of 50 prefer to conquer Taiwan by force. Most of them have no higher education. Young people aged 2-30 are also willing to recover Taiwan, but hope for a peaceful way. Many countries in the world have territorial disputes. When they are weak, they can't recover their territory. The Falklands war shows this fact. China's philosophy in recent decades is to vigorously develop the economy and improve its comprehensive strength. It will not take the initiative to provoke war, but it will not fear any forces. However, the current Chinese leaders are different from the previous leaders. The previous Chinese leaders only made every effort to develop the economy. The current leaders hope to have great political achievements, hope to have the same status as Chairman Mao and have the ambition to recover Taiwan by force. However, you should know that well-educated young people basically do not support the recovery of Taiwan by force, Now China has 10 million college graduates a year, and we don't know what will happen in the future. The Falklands is the opposite to your example. It was never part of Argentina, it was claimed by Spain, France, and Britain but only Britain settled it. Argentina claimed that it inherited the Spanish claim but the Spanish claim doesn’t stand up. It is not in Argentinian territorial waters and the people who live there are British. They speak English, not Spanish, and they want to stay in Britain. That last point is the most important one. Britain recently gave Scotland a choice whether it wanted to leave the union. A people should not be subjected to a government that they do not choose, that does not represent them. Such a government is not legitimate. The PRC attempt to impose their government on ROC is not legitimate because the people of ROC do not want it. You would not force a woman who does not want to marry you to be your wife. And if you did force her to marry you it would not be a successful marriage, the reasons she had wouldn’t be fixed by forcing her, and she would resent you. The same applies for forcing people to be in a government they oppose. You're right. I agree with you. But you should also understand that the education of Chinese people is different from yours. The education we have always received is that the country is the government. When we receive higher education, we will also learn about the situation abroad through the Internet, which will affect our views. Many young people also understand that the country is not equal to the government. We love the country but not necessarily the government. This is the young people I mentioned earlier who want to recover Taiwan peacefully. This means that Taiwanese can choose to come back or not. My parents, who are 5-60 years old, will support the recovery of Taiwan by force.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. We have those same old people in the west. People are people everywhere.
|
On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree.
I don't know when you said China invaded Tibet, and I don't know what kind of information you received. I don't know how your media reported these things.
What I know is that the slave owners and nobles in Tibet were driven out about 70 years ago, but Tibet has been under the jurisdiction of China for at least 700 years.
Japan slaughtered millions of people in China, which is completely different from Tibet. Do you know that the Chinese government invaded Tibet and slaughtered Tibetans?
I'm very interested to hear your views.
|
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On March 15 2022 00:07 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree. I don't know when you said China invaded Tibet, and I don't know what kind of information you received. I don't know how your media reported these things. What I know is that the slave owners and nobles in Tibet were driven out about 70 years ago, but Tibet has been under the jurisdiction of China for at least 700 years. Japan slaughtered millions of people in China, which is completely different from Tibet. Do you know that the Chinese government invaded Tibet and slaughtered Tibetans? I'm very interested to hear your views.
Most people in the west are currently under the impression of Dalailama(or w/e is his title in English) and almost nobody ever saw how it looked before the Chinese invasion in the Tibet. It was a horrible place on the Earth. Granted I have no clue how it looks now, but I doubt it is as bad as before.
Our media doesn't report how it looked before, our media reports that poor Tibetans are living without their leader who fled the country. Nobody ever mentioned how it looked before. Barely anyone mentions how it looked before. Just realized that rarely they report how it looked - e.g. the serfdom, harsh punishments and such
On March 14 2022 23:06 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. Many good policies issued by the supreme government and implemented by the most grass-roots government are not necessarily very good. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. Eastern Prussia has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Alsace-Lorraine has been a part of Germany since ancient times, which Germans think is indisputable. Fucking Egypt has been part of the Roman empire since ancient times, which Italians think is indisputable. This line of reasoning is so absurd. Things change. Every country has claims on everything in every other country if you go back far enough. The only sane way to move forward is to ignore this bullshit, and just accept how stuff is now. Taiwan is not part of China. The people living in Taiwan don't want to be part of China. So just let them be.
The difference mostly is that majority of the world officially doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country while they recognize Ukraine as a country. Maybe you can start by pressuring Germany to oficially recognize Taiwan, that should be fun.
|
United States42008 Posts
On March 15 2022 00:09 deacon.frost wrote:
The difference mostly is that majority of the world officially doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country while they recognize Ukraine as a country. Maybe you can start by pressuring Germany to oficially recognize Taiwan, that should be fun.
This is an interesting area because of the difference between word and action. The world acts as if ROC is a sovereign nation state. They make treaties with it, meet with its ambassadors, send it military aid, let it compete in the Olympics etc. Everyone understands Taiwan is sovereign, even PRC where it counts. PRC does not send its fleet into ROC waters because it knows ROC is sovereign.
But everyone also knows that PRC gets embarrassed if you talk about how ROC is sovereign and so nobody talks about it.
|
On March 15 2022 00:09 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2022 00:07 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree. I don't know when you said China invaded Tibet, and I don't know what kind of information you received. I don't know how your media reported these things. What I know is that the slave owners and nobles in Tibet were driven out about 70 years ago, but Tibet has been under the jurisdiction of China for at least 700 years. Japan slaughtered millions of people in China, which is completely different from Tibet. Do you know that the Chinese government invaded Tibet and slaughtered Tibetans? I'm very interested to hear your views. Most people in the west are currently under the impression of Dalailama(or w/e is his title in English) and almost nobody ever saw how it looked before the Chinese invasion in the Tibet. It was a horrible place on the Earth. Granted I have no clue how it looks now, but I doubt it is as bad as before. Our media doesn't report how it looked before, our media reports that poor Tibetans are living without their leader who fled the country. Nobody ever mentioned how it looked before. Barely anyone mentions how it looked before. Just realized that rarely they report how it looked - e.g. the serfdom, harsh punishments and such does it matter to the question of occupation?
Bringing civilization to barbarians has justified an awful lot of imperialism. From the Roman Empire to the entire Colonial era. Everyone thought they were showing the savages a better life, if only they bend the knee.
I'd hope we have outgrown that, that a people should govern themselves how they wish. We can offer to help them but should not force it on them by force of arms.
|
On March 15 2022 00:09 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2022 00:07 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree. I don't know when you said China invaded Tibet, and I don't know what kind of information you received. I don't know how your media reported these things. What I know is that the slave owners and nobles in Tibet were driven out about 70 years ago, but Tibet has been under the jurisdiction of China for at least 700 years. Japan slaughtered millions of people in China, which is completely different from Tibet. Do you know that the Chinese government invaded Tibet and slaughtered Tibetans? I'm very interested to hear your views. Most people in the west are currently under the impression of Dalailama(or w/e is his title in English) and almost nobody ever saw how it looked before the Chinese invasion in the Tibet. It was a horrible place on the Earth. Granted I have no clue how it looks now, but I doubt it is as bad as before. Our media doesn't report how it looked before, our media reports that poor Tibetans are living without their leader who fled the country. Nobody ever mentioned how it looked before.
Before 1950, Tibet was under the jurisdiction of China for at least 700 years. At this time, Tibet was under the jurisdiction of slave owners and nobles. Most Tibetans were slaves and lived a difficult life. Tibet was liberated by the Chinese people's Liberation Army at this time. Of course, you might call it an invasion.
The central government has always been committed to developing Tibet's economy and improving the education level of the Tibetan people. Now the living standards of Tibetans have been greatly improved, and the state has given Tibet many preferential policies.
By the way, the self mockery of the Chinese people: the first-class citizens are foreigners, the second-class citizens are ethnic minorities (Tibet), and the third-class citizens are the vast majority of Han people.
|
|
|
On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different.
Your thinking isn't any different from the current Russian leader. Have you been to Taiwan? Because I have, and the people there don't want to be part of China. Just like in Ukraine. And Taiwan has been independent for much, much longer. Your regime chased them away when you turned to 'communism', and the 2 countries are very different today. The reason other countries don't recognize Taiwan is because of their business relations with China. Stop looking back to what was once 'yours', and look at the people who live there today.
Btw, I should stop commenting, because this is making me livid. How are you defending your dictatorial leaders, who are suppressing Tibetans and committing genocide amongst Uyghurs?
|
United States42008 Posts
On March 15 2022 00:07 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree. I don't know when you said China invaded Tibet, and I don't know what kind of information you received. I don't know how your media reported these things. What I know is that the slave owners and nobles in Tibet were driven out about 70 years ago, but Tibet has been under the jurisdiction of China for at least 700 years. Japan slaughtered millions of people in China, which is completely different from Tibet. Do you know that the Chinese government invaded Tibet and slaughtered Tibetans? I'm very interested to hear your views.
The first difference is the idea of a continuous nation state of China that goes back 700 years. The nation state with one people, one country, defined borders and a single government is a very new idea (about 200 years old). Before that it was much more messy, there was an complex string of influence and obligations that was always changing. You could not draw a line on the map and say one side of the line is 100% mine and the other side is 0% mine. When you say that Tibet has been part of China for 700 years I think that is a very bad reading of history because for almost all of that time the idea of China as a nation state didn’t exist. There were many Chinas with many different territorial claims which were generally larger than the areas they actually controlled and were built on a semi feudal system of allegiances from local authorities rather than a single government.
Historians call this reading history backwards. We look at today and we project the things we know today onto history. Today we know nations with governments, borders, flags, and so forth and so that is our idea when we look at the past. But it is not how the people in the past thought of it. When you assert that Tibet used to be part of China you mean it used to be part of the nation of China but that nation, as you’re imagining it, did not exist at that time. Empires don’t have exact borders, if the heart of an empire on a map is a deep red then you can imagine a circle that gets a lighter and more faded red as it gets further from the heart. You cannot draw a line and say “this is where the red ends” because they are built on influence, obligations, allegiances etc. that fade but do not have borders. Tibet was, at one time, a faded pink. But that does not mean that it was part of the nation of China, that is a misunderstanding of history. Korea and Japan were also pink. And if you draw the European empires the same way they would shade China as a light faded part of their empires.
I do not know much about the lives of people in Tibet before the conquest but I do not believe that the Chinese came to liberate them. The reeducation camps and the suppression of Tibetan religious practices do not match that claim. Liberated people do not need to be forced to stay liberated at gunpoint.
I do not think the Chinese are as bad as the Japanese in Manchuria but their reasons for conquering Tibet look the same. They took it because it was there. Because they could.
|
I think it's great to learn the different perspectives on the status of Taiwan from real people, instead of through filtered/biased media. And I see how one could compare Ukraine's geo-political status to that of Taiwan. But maybe Taiwan deserves its own thread?
|
Northern Ireland23912 Posts
Yeah we’re treading into different realms. That said I have appreciated Zergling’s interactions and explanations. It’s very easy to forget that there are both huge cultural differences as well as knowledge gaps when it comes to China.
Broadly speaking I think there’s a clash between Western ideas of national self-determination and those elsewhere.
There’s also a further clash between an average person’s intuitions and that being implemented more widely in a structural sense. Average Western person is likely pretty down with the general idea, doesn’t necessarily mean how states are structured reflect that.
Further clashes still when the national/cultural self-determination question comes up in one’s own country. Know plenty a Brit who’ll happily post free Tibet/Palestine or whatever, but be innately hostile to the concept of Scottish independence or a United Ireland.
|
On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different.
I don't think self immolation is a mark of gratitude.
I've always wondered what was an ordinary cn citizen's view on giving their organs after their death. Is it true its very hard to find one willing to do it ?
|
On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree.
Did USA stealed the North America from native Americans？
Looks like some of you know 100 years ago you have done many bad things, so ,can you people go back to Europe and give your land back to Natives?
Well same to us, We liberated Tibet from slave owners， if anyone else feel not happy with it，we will say：so what ，it's none of your bussiness
|
United States42008 Posts
On March 15 2022 02:43 emperorofwild wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree. Did USA stealed the North America from native Americans？ Looks like some of you know 100 years ago you have done many bad things, so ,can you people go back to Europe and give your land back to Natives? Well same to us, We liberated Tibet from slave owners， if anyone else feel not happy with it，we will say：so what ，it's none of your bussiness
One sin does not excuse another. The genocide of the native Americans was a terrible crime. It is too late to fix it now, both the perpetrators and the victims are dead, all that can be done is to make reparations to the descendants.
The genocide in Tibet is ongoing. It can still be fixed.
|
On March 15 2022 01:31 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. I don't think self immolation is a mark of gratitude. I've always wondered what was an ordinary cn citizen's view on giving their organs after their death. Is it true its very hard to find one willing to do it ?
As the gov had put cremate policy into effect for many years， most people can accept donation。
The organ donation is rare in China is mainly a procedural problem. When a people died, family menbers are buzy wih a lot of things, no one asked their willing of organ donation, even if some want to donate ,they do not know who is the legal one to accept the donation,and how. No organization is in charge of this.
So some called to smooth the procedure，but there are a lot of question need to handle，like whether it will go too “smooth”？ will it generate corruption and black market and so on
|
On March 15 2022 03:10 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2022 02:43 emperorofwild wrote:On March 14 2022 23:47 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2022 23:35 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 23:14 Silvanel wrote:On March 14 2022 22:58 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:On March 14 2022 21:04 aseq wrote:On March 14 2022 17:45 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
As Chinese, it's really interesting to see you discuss China.
China is a non aligned country，Unless faced with aggression, war will not be launched easily。The only possible war is the recovery of Taiwan，This can happen in 10-20 years
I'm frustrated that also revised the Chinese constitution，This means that the Chinese president can be re elected indefinitely，China's previous constitution was that the president could only serve two consecutive terms, that is10 years. Now he can serve indefinitely
Don't you think this sounds a lot like Russia? Putin also changed the constitution to stay in power, no one thought he'd start a war easily. Ukraine and Taiwan are not part of your countries, they don't want to be and I hope they never will be. Chinese government already has way too much power, making people disappear when they want to, keeping tabs on everyone. Hope they aren't headed in the same direction... Taiwan has been a part of China since ancient times, which we Chinese think is indisputable. Most countries in the world also recognize this fact. Russia and Ukraine are two countries and recognized by the whole world. Taiwan cannot be equated with Ukraine. China has its own problems. Most well-educated Chinese people know it very well, but the Chinese people basically don't have much opinion on the government. The central government has also implemented many good policies However, the poor implementation of some local governments will lead to some problems. COVID-19 control reveals the Chinese government's ability and responsibility. Only a few people will hate the government. You should give back Beijing to Mongolia, Hong-Kong to Great Britian. Macau to Portugal, Tibet to Tibetans and so on. They used to own it, afterall... The current world order was established in the Second World War. Basically, the territory of most countries in the world is determined at this time. Mongolia also belongs to China, but this time it became independent and recognized by the whole world, so the Chinese did not consider taking Mongolia back. Both Hong Kong and Macao have lease contracts and return to China when the contract expires. Tibet has not been independent. Tibet has always been slavery, and the life of ordinary people is very difficult. After the Liberation Army liberated Tibet and drove away the slave owners, there will be no slaves in Tibet. Ordinary people can live well. I don't know how your media reported it. Countries all over the world basically do not recognize Taiwan as a country, which is essentially different. The Chinese invasion of Tibet appears much like the Russian invasion of Ukraine to us. A large nation sees a neighboring smaller nation and takes what it wants based on a tenuous historical claim. It is seen as illegitimate and immoral, stealing Tibet from the Tibetan people. In the west these days we believe that the people who live on a land should decide it’s fate (except apparently when it comes to Israel). The strong should not take from the weak (Israel again excluded). This is contrary to most of European history and may seem hypocritical but the strong taking from the weak got us Nazis and World War 2 so the west changed their mind on that. PRC is acting like Britain and America acted 100 years ago. I see why PRC does it but the rule of the strongest led to a contest between the strong that helped no one. To the west what the PRC is doing in Tibet is little better than what Japan did in Manchuria. Being strong and being nearby does not make you right. The Japanese said they were bringing peace and order to an area ruled by bandits but I am sure your history books do not agree. Did USA stealed the North America from native Americans？ Looks like some of you know 100 years ago you have done many bad things, so ,can you people go back to Europe and give your land back to Natives? Well same to us, We liberated Tibet from slave owners， if anyone else feel not happy with it，we will say：so what ，it's none of your bussiness One sin does not excuse another. The genocide of the native Americans was a terrible crime. It is too late to fix it now, both the perpetrators and the victims are dead, all that can be done is to make reparations to the descendants. The genocide in Tibet is ongoing. It can still be fixed.
The tibetan population is growing the whole time after liberation. They were slave society ,slave owners use skulls as drinking cups before it. Now we take them as one of us. They have equall citizenship, even more favoured policies. Of course seperatists who committed crimes will be put into jail as all counties do, no matter he/she is Tibetan or Uygur or Han
if you dont beilieve it , I can only say for you it is too HARD to fix it now(if there is)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
