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On March 01 2022 10:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 08:55 Mohdoo wrote:
"We are not going to have a war with Russia. Instead, we will watch them claim land indefinitely"
Here's to hoping Europe feels more incentive and takes matters into their own hands. Russia needs to be critically crippled after this. This needs to be the end of Russias as a major power. They’re still doing plenty of escalatory things. They’re fine with loading and pointing the gun, they just think pulling the trigger is too escalatory. The US isn’t doing nothing.
I'm withf you here. Seems like the U.S. is doing what they can while trying to avoid World War 3 if possible. Not sure how Russia is crippled critically anymore than they currently are without risking bloodshed.
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On March 01 2022 12:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 12:11 Mohdoo wrote:
If this isn't a good reason to use a military, what is? Is there any situation where the US military should be used? I'm honestly curious what people think. I see a lot of people say the US should do nothing no matter what. What if this happens while we sat on hands sucking our own dicks for being so calm and collected? You're basically advocating for WW3. There's no way the US gets involved with Putin with his hands on the red button. It just isn't happening so look for another solution where the US isn't involved. The only military going to fight will be Ukraine and other EU nations. The US will not go to war with an unstable Russian regime. Get that out of your head Mohdoo.
So what is your red line then? What would Russia do to make you say "ok, I guess this is just how its gotta be"? If Putin bombed Canada, would you say "Well we can't go starting WW3 or anything"? I understand if you think people in Ukraine aren't worth saving, so I am asking which people you think are worth saving. What would be a situation where you support US military engaging Russia?
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On March 01 2022 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 12:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On March 01 2022 12:11 Mohdoo wrote:https://twitter.com/jackturmanIII/status/1498478403250446337If this isn't a good reason to use a military, what is? Is there any situation where the US military should be used? I'm honestly curious what people think. I see a lot of people say the US should do nothing no matter what. What if this happens while we sat on hands sucking our own dicks for being so calm and collected? You're basically advocating for WW3. There's no way the US gets involved with Putin with his hands on the red button. It just isn't happening so look for another solution where the US isn't involved. The only military going to fight will be Ukraine and other EU nations. The US will not go to war with an unstable Russian regime. Get that out of your head Mohdoo. So what is your red line then? What would Russia do to make you say "ok, I guess this is just how its gotta be"? If Putin bombed Canada, would you say "Well we can't go starting WW3 or anything"? I understand if you think people in Ukraine aren't worth saving, so I am asking which people you think are worth saving. What would be a situation where you support US military engaging Russia?
I didn't say Ukrainians weren't worth saving. Every life is worth something to someone. But you must understand that the only outcome from US and Russia going at it with nukes at the ready is not something to even consider. I don't know what needs to happen for the US to get engaged. They can do limited sorties into the country with MARSOC, SOCOM, etc but being caught isn't an option. This is literally some Modern Warfare 2 shit that is going on. You can't have an open war between the two when one side is clearly unhinged and would probably nuke several major city areas just to save face. As much as I want to say "Let Europe handle European affairs" the world is so interwoven that it is impossible. So my answer is I don't know.
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On March 01 2022 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 12:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On March 01 2022 12:11 Mohdoo wrote:https://twitter.com/jackturmanIII/status/1498478403250446337If this isn't a good reason to use a military, what is? Is there any situation where the US military should be used? I'm honestly curious what people think. I see a lot of people say the US should do nothing no matter what. What if this happens while we sat on hands sucking our own dicks for being so calm and collected? You're basically advocating for WW3. There's no way the US gets involved with Putin with his hands on the red button. It just isn't happening so look for another solution where the US isn't involved. The only military going to fight will be Ukraine and other EU nations. The US will not go to war with an unstable Russian regime. Get that out of your head Mohdoo. So what is your red line then? What would Russia do to make you say "ok, I guess this is just how its gotta be"? If Putin bombed Canada, would you say "Well we can't go starting WW3 or anything"? I understand if you think people in Ukraine aren't worth saving, so I am asking which people you think are worth saving. What would be a situation where you support US military engaging Russia?
As bad as it is, at least it is geographically isolated. If more countries start jumping in then the conflict would spread far and wide and many more people would be at risk of dying. It's easy for us who are safe in the US, but imagine being in the countries in the surrounding regions. Even without the threat of nukes there would be so much devastation and bloodshed.
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United Kingdom10018 Posts
On March 01 2022 13:03 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:On March 01 2022 12:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On March 01 2022 12:11 Mohdoo wrote:https://twitter.com/jackturmanIII/status/1498478403250446337If this isn't a good reason to use a military, what is? Is there any situation where the US military should be used? I'm honestly curious what people think. I see a lot of people say the US should do nothing no matter what. What if this happens while we sat on hands sucking our own dicks for being so calm and collected? You're basically advocating for WW3. There's no way the US gets involved with Putin with his hands on the red button. It just isn't happening so look for another solution where the US isn't involved. The only military going to fight will be Ukraine and other EU nations. The US will not go to war with an unstable Russian regime. Get that out of your head Mohdoo. So what is your red line then? What would Russia do to make you say "ok, I guess this is just how its gotta be"? If Putin bombed Canada, would you say "Well we can't go starting WW3 or anything"? I understand if you think people in Ukraine aren't worth saving, so I am asking which people you think are worth saving. What would be a situation where you support US military engaging Russia? As bad as it is, at least it is geographically isolated. If more countries start jumping in then the conflict would spread far and wide and many more people would be at risk of dying. It's easy for us who are safe in the US, but imagine being in the countries in the surrounding regions. Even without the threat of nukes there would be so much devastation and bloodshed.
Precisely. Its not really the US's decision to make, at least not unilaterally.
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They're already investigating (or starting anyway) possible war crimes. It's been a hectic, stressful, and terrible few days. I still think the severity of the sanctions haven't kicked in for Russia and Russians as a whole yet. I also think that, should it go further than Ukraine's borders, then you'll see a more concerted effort from those neighboring countries to band together. With the amount of forces committed from Russia, if the rest of those bordering Russia came together militarily (more than materiel) and stood up to them, and then Putin went even further, then you'd drag in the EU nations and potentially very limited NATO response. But you still won't have US troops on the ground.
As long as the US itself doesn't engage in war, they can send whatever they want to Ukraine to arm them further. Be it monetary aide, weapons, etc. You just cannot have a US servicemember caught fighting a Russian servicemember as it could potentially be considered of US engagement of Russian forces and who knows what Moscow would do.
E: Put it this way, with the absence of nuclear war, US would absolutely walk into Ukraine and GGnoRE Russia back to the contested area. At the very least, the no fly zone would be implemented and Kyiv would be secure.
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Direct US military intervention would result in a glassed and/or carpet bombed Ukraine (and probably a glassed rest of the world). It's a shitty least of the evils situation-which we're all pretty familiar with.
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The Russians have spent their initiative and their spetznaz on a few clear failures of planning and execution. But now they're taking it seriously and are bringing what's needed to break the Ukrainian defenses. What supplies were able to get into Kyiv and what defenses were able to get set up will decide how long it takes to take the city and how much it will cost.
I think there isn't a question of if Russia will win the war this week but no matter what happens there will be a Ukrainian people from now on and Russia will never be the same. They have nothing to gain from this bloodshed now and will only lose more and more and more.
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Kharkiv was just bombarded from the planes by what sounded as a vacuum bomb into heavily populated area
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United Kingdom10018 Posts
On March 01 2022 15:10 Dav1oN wrote:
Kharkiv was just bombarded from the planes by what sounded as a vacuum bomb into heavily populated area
There's no excuse for such indiscriminate violence and destruction.
Stay safe.
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On March 01 2022 15:10 Dav1oN wrote:
Kharkiv was just bombarded from the planes by what sounded as a vacuum bomb into heavily populated area
Damn, this is awful to hear. Please stay safe. Hope Putin is stopped soon.
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Rocket strike confirmed, city main square was targeted, many casualties
Surviving this becomes harder and harder frankly
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On March 01 2022 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 12:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On March 01 2022 12:11 Mohdoo wrote:https://twitter.com/jackturmanIII/status/1498478403250446337If this isn't a good reason to use a military, what is? Is there any situation where the US military should be used? I'm honestly curious what people think. I see a lot of people say the US should do nothing no matter what. What if this happens while we sat on hands sucking our own dicks for being so calm and collected? You're basically advocating for WW3. There's no way the US gets involved with Putin with his hands on the red button. It just isn't happening so look for another solution where the US isn't involved. The only military going to fight will be Ukraine and other EU nations. The US will not go to war with an unstable Russian regime. Get that out of your head Mohdoo. So what is your red line then? What would Russia do to make you say "ok, I guess this is just how its gotta be"? If Putin bombed Canada, would you say "Well we can't go starting WW3 or anything"? I understand if you think people in Ukraine aren't worth saving, so I am asking which people you think are worth saving. What would be a situation where you support US military engaging Russia?
Obviously a NATO member being attacked.
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Austin10833 Posts
just reposting this here
On March 01 2022 14:02 BroOd wrote:![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Utkinportrait.jpg) Head of Wagner group, massive Third Reich enthusiast Dmitry Utkin. Sent in to "decapitate" the Jewish head of Ukrainian gov't, Zelensky with 400 other Wagner mercenaries.Same group of chuds that got annihilated 200+-0 by the US in Syria.
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Canada11607 Posts
Ah. So there are Nazis... working for Putin.
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I really don't know what to think. On one hand, I want this invasion to be over as quickly and bloodless as possible, on the other, I want Putin to fail spectacularly. Being a pacifist is getting harder and harder when there are people like him around. I would usually think, losing just one life to fight off an offender is wrong in our modern time. Now, I see a convoy of Russian tanks and think, a nice airstrike would be soooo juicy. Sigh.
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On March 01 2022 09:01 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 03:54 emperorchampion wrote:On March 01 2022 03:41 LegalLord wrote:On March 01 2022 03:32 Dan HH wrote:Looks like Russia wasn't expecting Germany's recent actions, their ministry of foreign affairs basically just called them nazis. Can't find an English source yet. + Show Spoiler + Eh, statement is a little more pointed than that. It complains specifically about them being delivered to "Banderite groups" i.e. the paramilitary groups that praise Stepan Bandera. Then a jab at Germany for saying "if that's who you deliver weapons to, did Germany ever really denazify itself?" A little bit underhanded but it's not trying to say "you're Nazis for sending weapons to Ukraine." Based on google translate + Show Spoiler +The supply of German weapons to the ideological heirs of the Nazi accomplice S. Bandera makes one wonder - how comprehensive and complete was the process of denazification in Germany itself after the defeat in World War II? . Imo it reads a lot like the tweet is implying that the German government are Nazis. The loaded question of "how comprehensive and complete was the process of denazification in Germany itself after the defeat in World War II?" is implying that there are Nazis in Germany, and moreover, implies that the German government are Nazis because they made the decision. Related, has Russia stated specific goals with respect to "denazification" in Ukraine? Well, isn't that really just old-school Soviet propaganda? "There are no Nazis in East Germany." (According to the USSR, somehow all the Nazis ended up in West Germany and none in the East- or else the Soviets shot them all.) Wasn't that the ongoing Soviet party line- the West was soft on the Nazis; therefore West Germany is still a Nazi state propped up by the capitalists?
Undoubtedly the denazification in West Germany was a joke. The Sowjets were much faster and more thorough in that regard.
At least it is propaganda with a speck of unpleasant truth (for the times).
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On March 01 2022 16:54 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 09:01 Falling wrote:On March 01 2022 03:54 emperorchampion wrote:On March 01 2022 03:41 LegalLord wrote:On March 01 2022 03:32 Dan HH wrote:Looks like Russia wasn't expecting Germany's recent actions, their ministry of foreign affairs basically just called them nazis. Can't find an English source yet. + Show Spoiler + Eh, statement is a little more pointed than that. It complains specifically about them being delivered to "Banderite groups" i.e. the paramilitary groups that praise Stepan Bandera. Then a jab at Germany for saying "if that's who you deliver weapons to, did Germany ever really denazify itself?" A little bit underhanded but it's not trying to say "you're Nazis for sending weapons to Ukraine." Based on google translate + Show Spoiler +The supply of German weapons to the ideological heirs of the Nazi accomplice S. Bandera makes one wonder - how comprehensive and complete was the process of denazification in Germany itself after the defeat in World War II? . Imo it reads a lot like the tweet is implying that the German government are Nazis. The loaded question of "how comprehensive and complete was the process of denazification in Germany itself after the defeat in World War II?" is implying that there are Nazis in Germany, and moreover, implies that the German government are Nazis because they made the decision. Related, has Russia stated specific goals with respect to "denazification" in Ukraine? Well, isn't that really just old-school Soviet propaganda? "There are no Nazis in East Germany." (According to the USSR, somehow all the Nazis ended up in West Germany and none in the East- or else the Soviets shot them all.) Wasn't that the ongoing Soviet party line- the West was soft on the Nazis; therefore West Germany is still a Nazi state propped up by the capitalists? Undoubtedly the denazification in West Germany was a joke. The Sowjets were much faster and more thorough in that regard. At least it is propaganda with a speck of unpleasant truth (for the times).
However, it is important to state that at this point, there are no nazis left in government. We do have a far-right party of assholes, but those are more GOP-type assholes then nazis. And they are not in government anywhere in Germany.
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Yeah. The best lies have grain of truth in them. During communist times there were indeed no nazis anywhere in Eastern Block. But after USSR fell they found a fertile ground there (including Russia), the poverty was high, there was a lot of resentment towards new democratic institutions and lots of nationalistic propaganda. I remember in the 90ties there were skinheads everywhere in Poland. They are mostly gone now (not 100% of course because those cockroches always persevere somehow). Anyway its much easier now to find nazis in Russia than in Poland, because the systemic problems that create environment for thoe little shits to grow are still there, also their governament is very right wing and supports nationalistic ogranizations. They also fund similiar organizations all around the world, including Poland.
If Putin realy wanted to "denzify" world he should start with Russia (and his minions).
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On March 01 2022 16:23 Falling wrote:
Ah. So there are Nazis... working for Putin.
It was ridiculous propaganda from Kremlin to be sure.
Ukraine has their own language and they don't want to use Russian? Nazis! -- according to Kremlin
I wonder if any journalist managed to ask Kremlin officials whether this demand isn't nazi by itself.
Ukraine wants to choose their own future. Nazis! -- according to Kremlin
Same as above.
Really cheap methods to brainwash people, but I hope not many people fall for them.
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EPT
