EPTChinese government rules on criticism - Page 2
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
That's all i have to say. | ||
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
On August 02 2007 09:09 Jayson X wrote: I'm from tibet. That's all i have to say. And Tibet has and will always be a part of China | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
On August 02 2007 07:02 Frits wrote: Yeah, you really disproved my point there that the country sucks balls. Why do I have to know my shit? All I said was that that rule is bullshit, if you think I'm so wrong why don't you give me an argument about why these rules are so awesome. Also I was talking about how YOU live now not your grandparents, as I doubt you were even alive in the 60's. Face it, you have it damn good otherwise you'd not be posting on a goddamn sc board. Because real life in another country is a lot more complex than some article or TV snippet would have you believe. Who said the rules were awesome? But I know that these rules won't impact the actual situation much, in fact I think they're a step for the better, because at least the Government is preparing for and instituting a system of dissent instead of outright banning and denying its existence. It shows your lack of general awareness of circumstance and history that you think this is some sudden drastic edict passed down from an Imperial Authority enforced by soldiers going from door to door with bayonets. This really represents a somewhat softening of stance (with a caveat that they intend to remain in control and minimize the impact of dissent). The Chinese Government is far from benevolent angels, but your understanding of the situation is incomplete and simply don't warrant you making the wide sweeping judgments you are throwing out. And it especially doesn't warrant you calling out my motivations or intentions, and you have no basis to question how much I can empathize with my closest relatives, the people I grew up with, and the place where I formed my first memories. Not when the only thing you base your aguments on is that I post on an SC board. On August 02 2007 07:18 OverTheUnder wrote: dont you think you should be above all the blind chest thumping americans instead of lowering to their lvl?;p Your right I should definitely try, but unlike them I at least attempt to logically present my arguments and I acknowledge the shortcomings and non-perfections of my situation. And me having lived in both situations puts me in a better vantage point to speak. Its also not easy to not to overreact to what one perceives as people dissing your country. Your right now though, I should still remain (and I try) to remain impartial. | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
On August 02 2007 08:25 Kwark wrote: Most powerful country in the world is a liberal democracy. People should be able to choose the way they live. It's the old question, would you give up freedom for security. The Chinese have that choice made for them, their freedom denied. And the case of India proves that a country as populace as China can still be run using western values. America's power is much much more a factor of its geopolitical circumstance than a true commentary on the merits of its government. I can point out many leading powers over history which rose and fell irregardless of form of government, and I doubt US is unique in that regard. In fact, one can look at recent history and suggest that in terms of both power and democratic merits, US's position is no certainty for the future. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On August 02 2007 06:48 RebelHeart wrote: exactly, left-wingsm depends on mass government intervention, state run enterprises, high taxing and redistribution to minority (read homosexual and feminist) interest groups, and "we know best" ideology What.... "we know best?" The conservative judicial court recently proposed even more bans on abortion because "women can't be trusted to make their own decisions, and will obviously regret it later, they just don't know it yet." The very same argument used to justify keeping women from voting. Feminism is such an important movement in this country, and really 90% of this forum has no idea what it actually is. Feminism really isn't just a bunch of angry lesbians. Anyone with any knowledge in the area knows that it helps *all* of society. Don't listen to the shit Fox news spouts out about "angry gangs of lesbian feminists with pink pistols." That's bullshit. "Homosexual interest groups"? What? In like 32 states you can still be fired from your job simply for being gay. How the hell can you claim battling that is bad? Mass government intervention? Bush is threatening to veto a childrens health care bill NOT because he thinks it won't work, but because he thinks it WILL work, thus possibly making big government look decent. And really, when hundreds of thousands of katrina victims are still living in fucking FEMA trailers without access to transportation, would a little government intervention REALLY be that bad?? High taxes and redistribution to minorities? Heads up bud, poor people aren't poor simply because they're fucking lazy or choose not work. They need a leg up, and the "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" argument is pure ignorance of their lives. And also, keep in mind that our government currently spends 133% of the money we make. Yes, for every dollar of your taxes that you pay, the government spends a dollar and 33 cents. How? Fucking magic, and selling ourselves into debt. Conservatives claim to be the government of smaller government and less spending, but really you're interfering in people's lives more than at any point in history, and you spend more then John Edwards in a fucking hair salon. You can't raise spending and NOT raise taxes. It doesn't fucking work. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I know you are proud. I know you are Chinese. But to look at judgements by the government like this and turn a blind eye only proves the stigma that Chinese people are brainwashed drones from the most controlling and evil government on the face of the earth today. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
On August 02 2007 07:02 Frits wrote: Yeah, you really disproved my point there that the country sucks balls. Why do I have to know my shit? All I said was that that rule is bullshit, if you think I'm so wrong why don't you give me an argument about why these rules are so awesome. Also I was talking about how YOU live now not your grandparents, as I doubt you were even alive in the 60's. Face it, you have it damn good otherwise you'd not be posting on a goddamn sc board. I don't live in China because the government is good. I love China for its people, all my relatives and friends were in China, they are nice. I remembering waking up in the morning to the smell of food down in the streets, I remember how we used to walk along the river bank and the public Karyoke stations where old people had fun singing and dancing. Also during the new years festival we'd go to the streets and make fireworks untill the entire city is covered in smoke and rackles. China's rich cultural background far outshines its government. China has had many governments, look back history at all the dynasties ruled over China. See how dynasties perish from one to another, but China does not perish. We are the people who inhabit the land, we are the culture and virtues that spawns from those people. The government is like a cloth, it changes from time to time but it is in no way on par with who we really are. So don't you dare making stupid blanket statement like "living in China sucks" because there is just so much more to live for than the imposing government. | ||
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KaasZerg
Netherlands927 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
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Aiurtime
United States61 Posts
On August 02 2007 08:25 Kwark wrote: Most powerful country in the world is a liberal democracy. People should be able to choose the way they live. It's the old question, would you give up freedom for security. The Chinese have that choice made for them, their freedom denied. And the case of India proves that a country as populace as China can still be run using western values. Not necessarily, that argument didn't work with nepal, and also India is a disorganized, poor starving country, the government of India isn't even that centralized, all of the power is divided between states that often qaurrel with each other, and a fraction of the population are part of the elite, this included the IT engineers, and outsourcers, they're numbers are big but the there more poor people. India definitely should not be such an example, its a very very underdeveloped country even though recently we think otherwise. China is fine the way it is, they're better off, that they have a centralized government that can make decisions on the country easily. India on the other hand is such a poor case, I'm not even going to get started. I am going to tell you however is that reason why India is far behind compared to China is because of the diffrence in goverments. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
Ok nevermind the fact that that country is creating an ignorant population that happens to be the largest in the world Hey control, you're from USA  Anyway, all this talking about freedom/democracy is non-sense. Before goverment type, system, traditions, culture etc, those people living in china are still people. They have the same needs as the rest and do the same things like the rest. They have no freedom? they are free to live the country! Just because they can't get out of the house with a big banner which says CHINA GOV SUX ASS doesn't mean they live in bad conditions u know... they can still go out in town and party untill light comes out, they can also talk to girls, have the same problem with girls and have sex like just the rest have, they can go on mountain, sea side, they can even run a business and make money. They can still enjoy life like most of people do. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
I don't live in China because the government is good. I love China for its people, all my relatives and friends were in China, they are nice. I remembering waking up in the morning to the smell of food down in the streets, I remember how we used to walk along the river bank and the public Karyoke stations where old people had fun singing and dancing. Also during the new years festival we'd go to the streets and make fireworks untill the entire city is covered in smoke and rackles. China's rich cultural background far outshines its government. China has had many governments, look back history at all the dynasties ruled over China. See how dynasties perish from one to another, but China does not perish. We are the people who inhabit the land, we are the culture and virtues that spawns from those people. The government is like a cloth, it changes from time to time but it is in no way on par with who we really are. So don't you dare making stupid blanket statement like "living in China sucks" because there is just so much more to live for than the imposing government. Just because you had/have it good doesn't mean the half of the country that lives in poverty agrees with you. What about the people forced into slavery or working on the land 24/7 ? Easy for you to make that statement how good life in China is. @aphelion: but your understanding of the situation is incomplete and simply don't warrant you making the wide sweeping judgments you are throwing out. No, I think your point of view is rather incomplete. You're completely overlooking the things your government is doing to parts of China. It shows your lack of general awareness of circumstance and history that you think this is some sudden drastic edict passed down from an Imperial Authority enforced by soldiers going from door to door with bayonets Feel free to quote where I implied this was a sudden drastic change, I said this changes nothing but only makes it look as such. As long as your government keeps defiling human rights I'm sure as hell not shutting up about them. Like I said before: You might have no reason to complain, but there's plenty who are. And stop acting as if I have something against anything else besides the government. Because I don't. And it especially doesn't warrant you calling out my motivations or intentions, and you have no basis to question how much I can empathize with my closest relatives, the people I grew up with, and the place where I formed my first memories. Not when the only thing you base your aguments on is that I post on an SC board. You evaded the question, I said you're overlooking the people in trouble and asked how you live. Then you start quoting something that has had 0 impact on your life. The fact that you have the money to buy a computer and use the internet, play starcraft is a privilege lots of people in your country don't have, and I'm trying to get you to see things from their perspective. | ||
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On August 02 2007 10:07 evanthebouncy! wrote: In conclusion. World is a shit place, we are all trying to make a living out of it. I really respect all the people trying to sort things out, to iron them straight. Human has come a long way in the short time and I do believe things are for the better if we just give it some time. Don't point and laugh, don't point and criticize, that's the last thing someone need when he's trying to pull himself up. Help instead. If you cannot help, encourage. when a country is trying to change criticism is EXACTLY what it needs. there is no other way to change! the same goes for the united states. encourage criticism and dissent. when criticism becomes taboo freedom suffers. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 02 2007 09:21 holy_war wrote: And Tibet has and will always be a part of China I'm guessing you're chinese? Very sad :-( | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32160 Posts
Always a bad combo. But that being said, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise that the restrictions on criticising the Chinese Govt. are anything but bad. | ||
KwarK
United States44389 Posts
Especially given that the borders of China have rarely stayed the same for more than a century and that China has spent much of its history as several co-existing far smaller empires. The China of today has no historic roots to it, only cultural ones. It is no more historically unified than Europe and it is a chance of history, not destiny, that China is at present unified. The only common tie China has is as I said, cultural. And Tibet has it's own equally long and valuable culture. A culture that was suppressed upon Chinese invasion and is being systematically wiped out. There is no doubt that the case of Tibet is a case of the annihilation of a civilisation. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On August 02 2007 09:21 holy_war wrote: And Tibet has and will always be a part of China Yeah ouukey. There\'s a difference between \"hey guys, why don\'t you join the club, you know for formality reasons so our dicks ain\'t that small in history books\" and \"DIE BITCH gimme your ressources, stop speaking your language and if you don\'t like it we kick you in jail or kill you !\" But thanks for your small history lesson. You gave me the light. | ||
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Foo Magoo
102 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
On August 02 2007 10:37 Frits wrote: Just because you had/have it good doesn't mean the half of the country that lives in poverty agrees with you. What about the people forced into slavery or working on the land 24/7 ? Easy for you to make that statement how good life in China is. Okay what do you want me to do? Go to China and start yapping how bad and how much a shithole it is? Grow some senses. I never said China is good. I'm saying I lived in China, my life has been good, therefore theres no reason for me to not like it. I agree with you that half the peasant doesn't like the way it is now, but what can you do to help it? Let them throw bombs at the government? Be totoally liberal and fall into anarchy? By letting them be able to criticize is a big step already. I completely agree that China doesn't have freedom. So what. Iraq had freedom and see what happened. Read your history. | ||
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