Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 387

On February 10 2025 01:49 Billyboy wrote:

Not sure if you just had another night at the pub or just wanted to show how bad assumptions lead to terrible conclusions, but obviously nothing. The point was to switch up the "good" and "bad" guys to see what would be an acceptable response. Who knows maybe even get a good faith answer for a change, but no luck.


It is fairly common knowledge that while Nazis are fascists not all fascists are Nazis. Next wtf "most anti west" are Nazi's pro west? And I specifically said with the power balance being the same, so you got everything wrong.

That being said you did open a can of worms. What is it about Hamas you like more than Fascists? Start with treatment of women, and work through all the things you hate about fascists and then go look up Hamas's position on those. Leaving your social media bubble is going to be required though, not sure if you are brave enough to venture into the world of journalism with rules.

On February 10 2025 03:53 stilt wrote:


Nazism is a very western ideology yes.
It's basically colonialism but to the east with racial theories which have been nutured by colonialism and slavery. The idea of cosmopolitism destroying civilization was prevalent during the 19th century and which kind of people were associated to cosmopolitism ? You guess right, the jews. As much as I have strong negative feeling toward germany, the shoah is an european affair.

While nowaday mainstream media love to compare urss to nazi germany with the concept of totalitarism, actual historians complain that you don't understand nazism with this concept because he just ignores the major western influences.
The fact the racial pangermanist ideologies took at lot of a frenchman (gobineau) saddens me.

As for you survivalist logic, that was the same used by pol pot in order to preserve the revolution or by the germans during ww2, the shoah happened because judeo-bolchevism was seen as a existential threat.

You contradicted youself btw because I am pretty sure you said, and you were right, that arab leaders don't care about palestinians which means israel isn't threatened. Regardless, there are the biggest military of the region and protected by the yankees.

So, israel is not threatened at all, their survivalist logic is wrong and wrong survavilist logic is the matrice of all genocide.
When someone begins to massively targets women and children, it's because they feel deeply threatened but if they can actually reach the women and children of the opponents, then, it means there are not actually threatened.

On February 10 2025 04:27 Billyboy wrote:

I really have no idea what you are talking about after your first 2 sentences. I'm guessing it has to do what you think I'm getting at instead of what I'm saying but impossible for me to know because whatever it is, is so far off that I can't follow.

On February 10 2025 10:24 stilt wrote:


You justify israel actions with security concerns I call it bs
Got it or this is still too much for you ?

On February 10 2025 10:27 Billyboy wrote:

Where and when did I justify Israel's actions and which ones?

If Israel was communist and the surrounding countries were all fascists determined to kill every citizen, power dynamics are the same. How do you suggest Israel reacts?

On February 10 2025 21:16 stilt wrote:




So not only you don't understand what I am writing but you don't get either what you're implying with this analogy, amazing.

On February 11 2025 03:49 pmp10 wrote:
And Hamas has just announced halting hostage releases.
The pretense are supposed Israeli violations of the agreement, but it's almost certainly a response to Trump's displacement plan.

Now the question is how much force will Israel apply and how it will affect their domestic politics.

On February 11 2025 05:32 Billyboy wrote:

It seems strategic, even performative. Just after they release 3 hostages that looked near death and are bringing up memories of holocaust survivors and right after Israel just withdraws from Gaza's Netzarim and Corridor. I'm not sure how it will work out, but likely bad for the Palestinians as that seems to be the only constant. Netanyahu took a big pummeling over the hostages condition, as the deal they took was very similar if not worse than a previous offer. But this could very much backfire as the growing right in Israel does not want to stop and wants the "total victory" promised by them. I hope I'm wrong and somehow this benefits the Palestinians, but when the two groups fighting don't care about them even in the slightest that seems unlikely.



https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/9/israeli-forces-withdraw-from-gazas-netzarim-corridor

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bound-gagged-and-starved-released-hostages-report-severe-mistreatment-by-captors/

On February 10 2025 22:47 Billyboy wrote:

Thank you for admitting it was your assumption you are treating as fact. The big problem (and you are far from the only one) is we never get anywhere because people are assuming a questions means this, and generally as awful a thing as we can think of if that person is not on your team. The opposite when they are on your team, the assumption is agreeing on everything, which is also incorrect.

If I ask you if your favorite colour is green, that just means I'm curious if green is your favorite colour, end stop. It doesn't mean my favorite colour is green, or red. It could be any number of colours. I'm asking to find out not to trick, and then I'll ask different questions depending on the answer because I'm curious.

On February 10 2025 22:47 Billyboy wrote:

Thank you for admitting it was your assumption you are treating as fact. The big problem (and you are far from the only one) is we never get anywhere because people are assuming a questions means this, and generally as awful a thing as we can think of if that person is not on your team. The opposite when they are on your team, the assumption is agreeing on everything, which is also incorrect.

If I ask you if your favorite colour is green, that just means I'm curious if green is your favorite colour, end stop. It doesn't mean my favorite colour is green, or red. It could be any number of colours. I'm asking to find out not to trick, and then I'll ask different questions depending on the answer because I'm curious.

On February 11 2025 09:01 stilt wrote:


Then why were you curious ? You're acting as if your question was asked in a vaccum. If that's really the case, you were off topic.
But no, you did ask on a thread about palestine-israel a question on how should react a communist country surrounded by fascist enemies.
While israel's justification for their action has been always about security concerns.
You deliberately use their exact argument with your analogy, it's not a bad assumption on my part, you're being dishonnest by ignoring the context in which it is asked.

On February 11 2025 07:59 Mohdoo wrote:


I think a few separate events have shown the remnants of Hamas are not rational actors. They are totally ignoring reason for the sake of the whole holy war shpeal. They seem to really believe all of it. But they really have nothing to lose at this point. There are lots of Palestinian lives that can still be saved, but I think Hamas leadership understands they are all dead no matter what they do. You could argue the whole ceasefire is kinda pointless because the writing is on the wall for Hamas. If they're all dead anyway, why even bother with the ceasefire for now?

On February 11 2025 09:01 stilt wrote:


Then why were you curious ? You're acting as if your question was asked in a vaccum. If that's really the case, you were off topic.
But no, you did ask on a thread about palestine-israel a question on how should react a communist country surrounded by fascist enemies.
While israel's justification for their action has been always about security concerns.
You deliberately use their exact argument with your analogy, it's not a bad assumption on my part, you're being dishonnest by ignoring the context in which it is asked.

On February 11 2025 10:45 Husyelt wrote:

well the usual Israeli propaganda is to say "these guys are like the nazis" or "they are worse than the nazis", which justifies then any of their military actions.

I don't like Hamas, but they are by any objective measure "better" than the Nazis yeah thats a no brainer. Look at these recent woman hostage exchanges, the civilians look well fed, decent in shape etc. Compare that to how Russia sends back Ukrainian prisoners of war, they all look a few weeks away from starvation.

Hamas you have to understand is sort of a simple terror org, they rose to power after Israel's brutal early 2000's years of bombings and warfare. Similar setup to Hezbollah, (resist Israel), but both organizations lost any moral high ground or legitimacy after a while. I prefer the PLO, but any group is going to be demonized to the nth degree by Israeli or Western media. The one thing Israeli's fear more than Hamas 2.0, is a strong and capable civilian government in Gaza or the West Bank. They will always assassinate or ply away those wanting a peaceful solution.



My social media bubble is quite large, although I do recognize my shortcomings. Funny you should mention the journalism with rules bit, does it trouble you, knowing Israel forbids western journalists into Gaza so we dont see what they have done?

On February 11 2025 11:14 Husyelt wrote:

I can imagine some hostages were mistreated or worse by Hamas, they are a terrorist org after all, but theres also a highly likely scenario these hostages were in places bombed to the heavens, and Hamas literally couldnt feed them enough or had to keep moving them constantly.

"Armed and funded by Iran",

Sure they were and are, but their inception was to resist Israel, and Hezbollah in particular got widespread support due to their cause. During the early months and years resisting Israel's brutal invasion of Lebanon and siege of Beirut, what became Hezbollah had makeshift hospitals setup for treating civilians and PLO soldiers. It was a mix of humanitarian and eventual armed resistance. If you can connect a thread here, its not Iran nefariously making proxy terror groups to end Israel! ... its Israel being a shit nation who has negative respect for territorial boundaries or the international rule of law.

On February 11 2025 10:13 Mohdoo wrote:


I think the detail you are missing is: Once this geographic situation is created, the results naturally lead from it.

Its honestly very similar to the momentum of the conflict itself. A lot of the diplomatic issues between Israelis and Palestinians right now just comes down to not trusting each other. Because neither of them think they can trust the other, they are totally unwilling to make any actual vulnerability-inducing concessions.

"How can Palestinians trust Israel after the last 80 years? Of course they will never accept Israel's existence. They have nothing to lose" also means Israelis can never trust Palestinians. If I knew someone thought I was 100% going to try to kill them, it would mean I could not trust that person, even if I had zero plans to kill them. They would try to kill me to prevent me from killing them. If October 7 meant Israel can never trust Gaza, and then Israel's response to Gaza meant Palestinians can never trust Israel, where does that even go? The sad reality of the conflict is that it is self-sustaining. It has so much momentum it can never feasibly end unless one of them leaves.