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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
This is 1:1 Putin's reasoning. I also find it fascinating how you also claim that Israel did nothing wrong in Gaza until October 7 despite all the evidence to the contrary that has been posted in this very thread (years earlier, and again several times after Oct 7). This level of ignorance and misinformation has to be deliberate. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26036 Posts
On February 05 2024 21:55 Magic Powers wrote: "Let's start with this one as it's quite easy. If you're in Afghanistan and you want the US gone, you become a farmer. Or you become a construction worker or a businessman or just about any fucking job that a normal human being would have. Despite moronic claims on the internet, the US is not imperialistic. The US doesn't take land. 1) It removes the bad leadership, 2) it installs new leadership picked by the local people from local people, and 3) then it tries to build a mutually prosperous alliance." This is 1:1 Putin's reasoning. I also find it fascinating how you also claim that Israel did nothing wrong in Gaza until October 7 despite all the evidence to the contrary that has been posted in this very thread (years earlier, and again several times after Oct 7). This level of ignorance and misinformation has to be deliberate. I mean the US isn’t colonialist for the most part. But I think many view colonialism and imperialism as directly synonymous when they really aren’t in today’s world. So I’d assume it’s just that conflation of terms coming to bear here. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18119 Posts
On February 05 2024 21:52 JimmiC wrote: The Taliban had support initially with the rural people who farmed the poppy’s and were more religious. By 2019 just the support of the zealots and war lords. The local power and money. The people with their feet on the throats of the people wanted to keep it there. This myth that people in Gaza and Afghanistan like to be brutally oppressed needs to stop. Clearly a shitty job has been done giving them the kind of lives even our lower middle class and poor have, but it is wholly false to believe they do not want what we have. Also some stuff about the economy and quality of life Ren was speaking on. Bunch more info in the source including pdf of reports if you want more granular. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/taliban-afghanistan Unsurprisingly, if a country's economy depends almost entirely on foreign aid and development funds, the economy is going to tank when that money stops coming. I have a hard time believing support for Taliban was so low, yet they had enough power to absolutely steamroll the Afghani army when the west was pulling out. Yes, clearly the Afghan army was awful, but if 87% of the country supports the government and the army, vs 13% the guerrillas of the Taliban, the latter do not win a fight for power even if they are battle-hardened and good at war. The numbers just don't work. If I had to guess, there's some interesting finnagling with statistics happening there, where the Taliban do enjoy only 13% of popular support, but everybody else enjoys even less, and a vast majority don't give a crap who governs them or what freedoms they have as long as there is food to eat, and they are not educated enough to know that the food they could eat in 2019 was in a large part due to international support of their liberal government, which would instantly dry up under Taliban rule. Anyway, this thread is about Israel and Palestina, not the Taliban, and I think you are one of the people who likes to reiterate over and over how many polls show Hamas has vast popular support, despite their repressive rule in Gaza for 15+ years. One of their main things is Sharia rule, and Palestinians seem to want that, if your own polls can be believed. If not, then why do they support Hamas over Al-aqsa Brigade or a variety of other militant groups with less religious undertones? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26036 Posts
On February 05 2024 21:59 JimmiC wrote: Oh sorry were you not wrong? You are such a whiner How about “oops I missed it” but keep trying hard to be cool and insulting me. Stop being so entitled. It’s not like you are alone, just one of the many that doesn’t read, misreads, assumes the worst and treats it as fact, then gets all mad when it’s pointed out and instead of taking responsibility starts the low quality posts of insults. Not that the ones you put effort into are much better. Perhaps if you didn’t continually misread and misrepresenting the posts of others, and many of mine I wouldn’t have responded so? If I dunno, Drone had made that observation I wouldn’t have responded thus as he’s studiously fair to a fault. ^_^ | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On February 05 2024 22:02 WombaT wrote: I mean the US isn’t colonialist for the most part. But I think many view colonialism and imperialism as directly synonymous when they really aren’t in today’s world. So I’d assume it’s just that conflation of terms coming to bear here. I understand that the US, unlike Russia, isn't strictly colonialist. But Ren's reasoning for why they aren't colonialist is really poor, and that's why I compared it to Putin's propaganda so it becomes obvious that the true reasoning has to be a different one, whereas Ren's reasoning, if anything, makes the US look colonialist. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663 | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26036 Posts
On February 07 2024 21:02 Magic Powers wrote: I'm coming around to the idea that Biden is in complete war hawk mode. On a surface level I see absolutely nothing wrong with Hamas' truce offer as proposed in this article. It sounds fantastic to me (if accepted and it actually works). Meanwhile Biden calls it "over the top". What's wrong with the old man? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663 Seems reasonable on skimming to me too | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
When both political sides are religious fanatics then the innocent bystanders won't win. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6252 Posts
That offer means Hamas takes over the Gaza Strip again. I don't see why Israel would accept that. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On February 08 2024 00:08 RvB wrote: That offer means Hamas takes over the Gaza Strip again. I don't see why Israel would accept that. Israel surely wouldn't accept it. But people who have no pro-Israel bias could see how it makes more sense than continuing the war. Biden prefers war over peace due to his pro-Israel stance, not because Hamas' offer is unreasonable. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
Here is a further breakdown of Hamas’ proposal: What Hamas offers: 1. A return of the remaining hostages and Israeli bodies (Egypt estimates that about 50 of the hostages are dead now, so that’s about 80 live hostages assuming no more are murdered in the meantime). Hamas also says the releases are contingent on how well they feel Israel is holding up all it’s side of the bargain. What Hamas demands: 1. 135 day ceasefire 2. Jews are to be banned from entering the Temple Mount (holiest site in Judaism. Currently Muslims can pray there and Jews can visit for non-prayer purposes like tourism) 3. Restoration of the Gaza strip to it’s pre-war condition 4. Complete withdrawal of all IDF forces from the Gaza Strip to the border 5. Complete stop of all IDF arial activity, including surveillance drones 6. The release of all the Palestinian prisoners imprisoned in Israel who are younger than 19 or older than 50, as well as the sick, in addition to 1,500 Palestinian prisoners named by Hamas (of which 500 are serving life sentences for mass murder) 7. Completing the necessary steps to ensure that the prisoners who were released for the offenses for which they were imprisoned are not re-arrested (even if they re-offend like those who were re-arrested since the last time) 8. The introduction of a minimum of 500 aid trucks per day into the Strip, including fuel trucks 9. The return of all the displaced people to their homes all over the Strip without movement restrictions (i.e. no checking to see if any returnees are Hamas militants) 10. The opening of all Gaza crossings for the movement of people and goods without restrictions, including the departure of men, women and children for treatment outside the Gaza Strip without any restrictions (i.e. no more bans on weapons entering the Strip) 11. Supply of heavy engineering equipment for clearing rubble, equipment for civil defense (i.e. Israel should donate guns for Hamas’ police force) and equipment for the Ministry of Health 12. The rehabilitation of the hospitals and bakeries in the entire strip 13. Bringing in of all the equipment needed to set up residential camps, including: 60 thousand temporary residential buildings (trailers and containers) at a rate of 15 thousand per week. The introduction of 200,000 tents at a rate of 50,000 per week 14. The beginning of infrastructure restoration all over the Strip, including water, electricity and communication infrastructures. 15. Approval of a comprehensive plan for the rehabilitation of all the residential buildings, commercial buildings and public buildings that were destroyed as a result of the fighting within a schedule of three years (funds will of course be managed by the local government [Hamas] to line pockets as desired) 16. Renewal of all the humanitarian aid provided to the residents of the Gaza Strip and especially the full functioning of UNRWA - as it was before October 7. 17. Supplying the diesel needed to operate the power plant in Gaza and needed for all sectors in the Gaza Strip. 18. Israel must be forced to meet the needs of the Gaza Strip in the area of electricity and water. 19. A mechanism for keeping Israel out of the Strip (i.e. this is actually a permanent ceasefire) 20. Also, additional prisoners (besides for the 1,500+teens+older+sick already released) will be demanded 45 days in, to guarantee the release of the second batch of Israeli hostages TLDR: Hamas will give ~80 hostages (and some corpses) in exchange for ~2,000+ prisoners, Israel footing the bill for the reconstruction, and Hamas and it’s support networks restored to complete and permanent control of the Strip. For comparison, Russia and Ukraine exchanged prisoners of war a week ago. 195 Russian prisoners were exchanged for 195-206 (depending on sources) Ukranian prisoners. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13990 Posts
On February 08 2024 11:32 JimmiC wrote: It probably should also be noted that the taking of hostages is a war crime (like an actual one listed) not a legitimate negotiating tactic. Many people, understandably so given the history, feel like paying the ransom will only make future kidnapping and hostages more likely in the future. Does holding people from a foreign land in administrative detention without trial or due process count as a war crime? | ||
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