EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 110
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On November 20 2023 05:53 JimmiC wrote: What part of my position makes me Pro Israel? You’ve repeatedly said this and I was wondering if you could articulate it. Because me and the others you have listed have some pretty divergent views. This is the third time you quoted a post and still didnt even adress my questions.. I will as I basically do all the time answer yours.. but it will probably be the last time .. seeing as you dont even have the courtesy to do it yourself.. What part of your position makes you pro israel? You literally felt the need to play the "u are antisemites card" but arent pro Israel? Ok then my man.. Good riddance | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
edit: This could also put every medical official in both organizations as enemy combatants as they have betrayed their Hippocratic oaths. ESPECIALLY those of the Médecins Sans Frontières. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15644 Posts
In the current political climate and weird Wild West the internet and media as a whole is in with disinformation, I think it’s entirely reasonable for people to always be highly skeptical and to need proof to accept something. Especially when IDF has a history of proven lies. It’s a difficult situation created by a lot of bad people with bad intentions and ultimately humanity as a whole suffers for it. When literally every single major world government has a history including major lies/scandals, it’s hard to really ever trust anything and all we can really do is observe with healthy skepticism. Just like the Iraq war where we were all able to process where the pieces landed and understand the scale of the lies after the fact, I truly hope enough irrefutable evidence comes around that the world can more completely coalesce around history and fact. I know it’s not a reasonable request/dream, but I truly do wish and hope people can eventually break themselves of the habit of shared philosophical identity. We ought to all just have a set of ethics we believe and join together with folks who share them. But in a world where identity itself is deeply challenging for many people and a sense of purpose is even less obtainable, I think we’ll continue to see widespread political identity-craving. It’s a virus and it destroys human progress. I loathe it more than most other human inclinations. It allows powerful people to exploit the suffering of the masses. By injecting people with identity and anger as an escape from existential dread, the fat cats of the world turn us all against each other. The only path to overcoming this is rejecting the entire structure of shared political identity. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12150 Posts
On November 20 2023 06:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Well the Al-Shifa security camera footage puts not only the Doctor's Without Borders, but also the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement in a bind as now they have to explain how they could not explain how they did not see gunmen bringing hostages inside the hospital grounds with some being severely wounded while others weren't. While others were found to be killed inside the hospital later on. How so? I don't understand that. On November 20 2023 06:24 Mohdoo wrote: In the current political climate and weird Wild West the internet and media as a whole is in with disinformation, I think it’s entirely reasonable for people to always be highly skeptical and to need proof to accept something. Especially when IDF has a history of proven lies. This is true but I guess I choose to see the glass half full. Internet produces a bunch of disinformation but it also produces images and a capacity to look at and judge different narratives. There's a reason why the previous generations were much more in favor of Israel, they only had access to one narrative through the media they consumed. The people of the future will be more likely to believe that something specific that did not happen happened, but they will also be overall better informed imo. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15644 Posts
Doctors Without Borders and other organizations basically said “terrorists? What terrorists? Hamas? Is that a type of bread?” when they were asked about exactly this. Video footage proving they were 100000% aware of what was going on forces them to explain their lies. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12150 Posts
On November 20 2023 06:40 Mohdoo wrote: Doctors Without Borders and other organizations basically said “terrorists? What terrorists? Hamas? Is that a type of bread?” when they were asked about exactly this. Video footage proving they were 100000% aware of what was going on forces them to explain their lies. Do you have the link, I can't find anything interesting | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12150 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15644 Posts
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Byo
Canada206 Posts
Like the accuracy of the intelligence that Israel actions upon is less important than the perceived accuracy as it's viewed on social media. I ask the initial question as, perhaps Hamas isn't even going to bother to do more than run around with the civilians... | ||
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Sent.
Poland9174 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania9112 Posts
On November 20 2023 06:00 Nebuchad wrote: Mohdoo's reaction exemplifies why I don't think it's a very good strategy to talk about specific events. If the IDF somehow manages to stop lying at some point, the people on his side will be vindicated, and if the IDF is shown to be lying they won't care at all. I don't think there's a good outcome with this strategy, we either lose ground or break even. It's fine to talk about specific events, just gotta drop the kiddie flow charts. For the IDF approach to be wrong overall, it's not a requirement for them to be lying/wrong about every single thing every single time. That's just not how complex interactions work. Even Russia was best served by the truth in some specific instances of the Ukraine war. You made a good point some time ago that human shields should work, that it's not okay to drop a dozen civilians or destroy critical infrastructure to kill a terrorist. We should stick to that instead of dying on the hill that the terrorist must not exist because the IDF claims he exists and the IDF are the baddies so nothing they say can be real. It's unnecessary insanity. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12150 Posts
On November 20 2023 08:10 Dan HH wrote: It's fine to talk about specific events, just gotta drop the kiddie flow charts. For the IDF approach to be wrong overall, it's not a requirement for them to be lying/wrong about every single thing every single time. That's just not how complex interactions work. Even Russia was best served by the truth in some specific instances of the Ukraine war. You made a good point some time ago that human shields should work, that it's not okay to drop a dozen civilians or destroy critical infrastructure to kill a terrorist. We should stick to that instead of dying on the hill that the terrorist must not exist because the IDF claims he exists and the IDF are the baddies so nothing they say can be real. It's unnecessary insanity. What you said is true but I still don't think it's a very good strategy. There isn't really a benefit that we gain from this interaction. I could have talked about the bunker that's been under the hospital for years cause my Twitter feed yesterday was full of people who were saying that the IDF was about to "discover" that bunker, and maybe I should have considering we now have to bring it up today, but I just don't think it's worth it overall. I still would like that quote from Doctors Without Borders cause those are people that I trust more, if they're shown to be lying about something I find that worth knowing. My expectation is that the quote is more something along the line that the hospital wasn't used as an operational base by Hamas, which is still likely true. But I haven't seen the quote so I can't know for sure. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On November 20 2023 08:22 JimmiC wrote: People who do not like antisemitism are pro Israel? I thought we just called those people not awful. This is why I do not respond to your posts, you clearly have not read any thing I’ve written. Why would I put in the effort when you are just going to shit post about me? From yours I have read that you already know so much more from YouTube videos and this is just a waste of time so your done, but then you just come back and rinse repeat. I never said that. You did also not say that you dont like antisemitism. You said people here were antisemtic ok? So once more you are lying or not that bright (Im sorry for the ad hominem but what else can it be ffs) I mean im sorry but I asked a simple question. Even made it easier with 1) 2) Y/N ect.. So Im a bit confused. I feel like you are evading but.. well.. apparently you dont like to respond to my posts yet half of the time you do.. you just write untrue stuff.. It is really just absurdly annoying at this point. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3187 Posts
So it seems like Hamas had some secret ways to get into the hospital. They also brought hostages there, which certainly suggests they consider it a “base” of some kind. So far it doesn’t seem like much of a “main headquarters” for a military organization, although maybe now is a good time to think about what that would even mean. Decentralization is kind of a big thing for insurgent groups like Hamas; what are the odds they even *have* a big Bond villain secret headquarters anywhere in Gaza? In all likelihood they’ve got a dispersed network of small cells, each with a few hiding places and some weapons at their disposal. To me the biggest question from the start of this is what “eliminating Hamas” would even look like. I mean, there’s a lot to criticize in Israel’s concept of just how cheap Palestinian lives are when they’re deciding what strikes are “worth it,” but fundamentally all that would have to be judged against an achievable overall objective that they just don’t seem to have. They can kill a lot of Palestinians; some percentage of those (I doubt it’s over 10%) are militants that would have taken up arms against Israel. They can track down some weapons and military infrastructure, and seize or destroy them. But at the end of the day there’s still going to be millions of Palestinians, some percentage of which will still be willing to take up arms against Israel, and those insurgents still won’t have trouble getting ahold of guns to do it with. It’s not impossible to “win” a war of occupation but nothing we’re seeing from the IDF seems even remotely capable of achieving it. It’s just the usual escalation of cruelty that wars of occupation always promote, with no end in sight. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On November 17 2023 11:01 JimmiC wrote: Yes I was putting up the parts that were controversial. I also did not put up there that the grass is green. The sad part is that it’s controversial for some of us to have empathy for Israeli’s but everyone has empathy for Palestinians. Very little for Hamas, you have to remember we consider Hamas different than Palestinians, and more than that we do not believe they support Palestinians interests. Just about every poster active in this thread called the attack on Israel a vile act of terror and the deaths of Israeli civilians a huge tragedy. I can't recall a single person trying to justify the original attack as a 'necessity' or 'self defense' or 'justice' the way you and the other handful of Israel apologists are doing with the excessively brutal reprisal that Israel has been carrying out for over a month now. And no, I don't think 'having empathy for Palestinians' is as obvious as greenness of grass is when we have people saying that a bodycount of ten thousands and counting is 'just unavoidable collateral damage bro' but maybe we have different standards for what counts as empathy, I don't know. Edit: can you source the UN resolution accusing Israel of war crimes? I’d like to read it, when I try to Google it I get nothing official You'll notice that I never said that UN resolutions accusing Israel of war crimes exist, and I'm not sure why you would think that is a worthwhile response when the US has in the past straight up said they will pull funding from the UN if there ever were to be any accusations more severe than 'condemn their actions of so and so' or whatever. It's like saying Russia must not be committing any war crimes because hey, there hasn't been a UN resolution that says so passed, never mind that they can veto anything they don't like. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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