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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Perdue vs Ossoff is really spicy. If Perdue doesn't get 50% then there will be a runoff election, giving dems a chance for 50 senators later in january. Latest report Perdue is at 49.9996% lmao so both Georgia seats are going for a run off? | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:31 Cricketer12 wrote: so both Georgia seats are going for a run off? Unless some weird shit goes down, it seems pretty likely. Even more likely than Biden getting the state. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10534 Posts
Apparently Washoe County in Nevada just came in, slim margin that bumped Biden up a couple votes in the lead. Rurals dont have enough to take Trump over the top, and Clark should still be Biden favored with the remaining vote. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32754 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:26 Neneu wrote: Lets not forget that the libertarian ideology were founded and spread by marxists. There are a lot of people who are libertarian and lean left (although they are less known in US). Lol what? Libertarianism predates Marxists by 2 centuries and originated in Britain (a case could be made for Lao Tsu as well). What does John Locke, british Levelers, Laozi, spanish Scholastics who originated self-propriety, etc. have anything to do with marxists? Its always hilarious to hear people who have no idea what theyre talking about re: libertarianism spew their ignorance. A brief good history is actually from brittanica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/libertarianism-politics/Historical-origins | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:26 Neneu wrote: Lets not forget that the libertarian ideology were founded and spread by marxists. There are a lot of people who are libertarian and lean left (although they are less known in US). Leftist libertarians, ie, Libertarian Socialists, are also called anarchists. Libertarian in the US always means a very different thing than in Europe. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:31 Zambrah wrote: Sounds bluer than red to me, tbh. If I took Democrats at their word I’d say you share their values, but honestly you’re probably to the left of a centrist Democrat. If he's honest then no. The part of the economy outside energy and health represents far more than a majority of the economy plus its like saying a Georgist (which is a position I actually have some sympathy with even though no one knows him anymore (Henry George)) is closer to AOC than Rand Paul which is preposterous. To be honest he'll just have to decide whats more important: nationalizing those industries or expanding market principles to the economy. Would you rather vote for Rand Paul and Thomas Massie or AOC and I. Omar? | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
I wonder if they'll just swap their AZ calls to NV calls once the other networks call NV. Or if they'll genuinely call the election with AZ going down to the wire. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12491 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:37 Nevuk wrote: Leftist libertarians, ie, Libertarian Socialists, are also called anarchists. Libertarian in the US always means a very different thing than in Europe. Based on the principles that the libertarians claim to hold, there is no rational reason for them to not be market socialists. I forget who it was but one of the main people that we have to thank for rightwing libertarianism has a quote where he celebrates taking a term from the left and making it their own. Basically libertarianism used to be pretty cool and based, so the right made an incoherent ideology and called it libertarianism so that less people would become leftwing libertarian. That last part is my interpretation but the rest is facts as far as I know edit: and small nitpick, you can be a libsoc and not an anarchist, it's the same dynamic as libertarian and ancap. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10534 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:40 Mohdoo wrote: I don't understand what's happening in Arizona right now. If Trump takes Arizona, that means Biden needs either SC, Ga or Pa? Heres the current situation: If Biden wins GA and nothing else (loses Nevada Ari Pa and NC), TIE AT 269 If Biden wins any 2 combination of the remaining 5 states, ball game. If Biden wins just PA, he wins. Trump literally must win every state except either Arizona or Nevada. He must win PA, GA, NC, and then either Arizona or Nevada to cross 270. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24226 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:42 TheTenthDoc wrote: Fox and AP are sweating over these NV results. I think a Biden victory is pretty clear there now. I wonder if they'll just swap their AZ calls to NV calls. They'll find a way to blame an intern | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:36 Wegandi wrote: Lol what? Libertarianism predates Marxists by 2 centuries and originated in Britain (a case could be made for Lao Tsu as well). What does John Locke, british Levelers, Laozi, spanish Scholastics who originated self-propriety, etc. have anything to do with marxists? Its always hilarious to hear people who have no idea what theyre talking about re: libertarianism spew their ignorance. A brief good history is actually from brittanica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/libertarianism-politics/Historical-origins What really is hilarious that you claim to be knowledgeable when you're clearly not. What you're linking has nothing to do with what libertarians in the US are. You either don't know that, which makes it funny to see you talk about people that don't know what they're talking about - or you do, and you're just being disingenuous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_in_the_United_States | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:35 PhoenixVoid wrote: There's a large diversity of libertarians and I don't know if you can pigeonhole them down to exactly "conservative economically, socially liberal". I've seen mainstream libertarians advocating for no car licenses and legalized marijuana with very pro-LGBT views, to paleolibertarians deeply opposed to immigration with a very strong hint of racism and Western chauvinism. They're an interesting umbrella, I tell ya what. Speaking of...Trump reminds me of him being a doofus version of Pat Buchanan. On a purely electoral matter it was dumb of GOP to nominate Dole instead of Buchanan in 1996. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:43 FlaShFTW wrote: Heres the current situation: If Biden wins GA and nothing else (loses Nevada Ari Pa and NC), TIE AT 269 If Biden wins any 2 combination of the remaining 5 states, ball game. If Biden wins just PA, he wins. Trump literally must win every state except either Arizona or Nevada. He must win PA, GA, NC, and then either Arizona or Nevada to cross 270. Also, note that Trump's only favored in one of these states. NC, specfically. GA is a toss-up and AZ I think is still Biden favored. In the two others he's extremely unlikely to win (PA,NV). NV can probably be called already. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8155 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:44 GreenHorizons wrote: They'll find a way to blame an intern Even then it will look so dumb to "uncall" Arizona now and not earlier. Silver says that Nevada should probably be called. Biden is +1 and heavily favoured in the remaining ballot. If that's the case, Trump needs to win every other state left to win. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10534 Posts
I hear theres about 50k votes left or something around there. Very doable. Chatam county (Savannah) has at least 12k of that number, 70/30 split would be about 8.4-3.6k, thats another 5k to Biden. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:43 Nebuchad wrote: Based on the principles that the libertarians claim to hold, there is no rational reason for them to not be market socialists. I forget who it was but one of the main people that we have to thank for rightwing libertarianism has a quote where he celebrates taking a term from the left and making it their own. Basically libertarianism used to be pretty cool and based, so the right made an incoherent ideology and called it libertarianism so that less people would become leftwing libertarian. That last part is my interpretation but the rest is facts as far as I know edit: and small nitpick, you can be a libsoc and not an anarchist, it's the same dynamic as libertarian and ancap. Libertarianism is the logical extension of Classical liberalism. It has nothing to do with socialism (Proudhon style). If anything US liberals stole the term (liberal) from us. Guys like Albert Jay Nock, Calvin Coolidge, Buffett, etc. Compare Turgot, Benjamin Constant, Bastiat, Anti-Corn League folks, etc. to Proudhon, Kropotkin, etc. and there is not much overlap then compare those groups of folks to libertarians and its crystal clear where the lineage comes from. (Constant > Bastiat > Spencer > Mises > Hayek > Rothbard/Nozick/Friedman) | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:37 Nevuk wrote: Leftist libertarians, ie, Libertarian Socialists, are also called anarchists. Libertarian in the US always means a very different thing than in Europe. I mean, you're technically correct, but more than anything, 'libertarianism' hardly even exists as a description of anything in Europe, aside from as a description of american libertarians. I've literally never heard it used to describe a leftist. (While anarchist here squarely means the leftist kind, ancap isn't a phrase used in europe either. ) The word 'liberal' is definitely an origin of transatlantic confusion (in europe liberals are normally right-of-center overall, being socially liberal while wanting an economy significantly less regulated than social democrats do), but libertarian is a term that essentially only exists on your side of the pond. | ||
KwarK
United States44216 Posts
On November 06 2020 02:50 Wegandi wrote: Libertarianism is the logical extension of Classical liberalism. It has nothing to do with socialism (Proudhon style). If anything US liberals stole the term (liberal) from us. Guys like Albert Jay Nock, Calvin Coolidge, Buffett, etc. This conforms to my understanding of the term. That said, I don’t agree with Libertarianism, despite my basic agreement with the tenets of Classical Liberalism. It’s a very clean philosophical model that attempts to explain human behaviour in terms of informed rational actors who, when given maximum freedom, will act in predictable and ethical ways. It makes everything simple and easy until you put real humans into the model and then it all goes to shit. Libertarianism resolves those issues by turning Classical Liberalism into a religion where the flawed assumptions become acts of faith. When reality fails to conform to those assumptions reality is viewed, by Libertarians, as incorrect. | ||
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