EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 566
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Larry_Equadoro
United States7 Posts
On January 10 2022 18:38 emperorchampion wrote: To be fair, we all face the consequences of an increasingly strained health care system because of unvaccinated people. Edit: also to say that it’s a fact vaccines reduce severe illness, not just my opinion. Agree that we all face the consequences in the end  Life is not easy, man | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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farvacola
United States18865 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28840 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On January 11 2022 06:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: Bj claimed that reinfection 1 month after infection is much more rare than double vaccinated being infected. The time frame was an essential part of his point Yes, thanks. My point was very specific - If Novak Djokovic was infected 1 month ago you can confidently say he is better protected than the typical double-vaxxed person that would be permitted to play in the Australia Open. So logically you can't say Novak is being kept from the Australia open for safety reasons but you could say he is being kept out of the Australia Open because he didn't want to follow the rules that everyone else did, i.e. everyone else got their jabs so he should have to get his too. It's not even a terrible argument. I thought Rafael put it eloquently, something along the lines of "there has already been a lot of suffering for someone to not follow the rules." But for some reason people think they lose moral ground if they phrase it this way so they have to pretend that Novak is a danger to everyone. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On January 11 2022 07:04 JimmiC wrote: Does that matter with Omicron? Nothing I can find so far says as much, which is why I started with asking to see if he had read something before I assumed that he was just making assumptions and stating them as fact. The thing is that being double vaccinated right before there is nothing on that being better either, could it be the case, sure I think it could, should someone state it as fact, they should not. So far all there is, is that natural immunity or double vaccination is not making much of a difference if any in stopping infection of Omicron. (It is helping with severity which is a great thing). There is mounting evidence that boosters help and that natural plus vaccination is doing quite well. It is not safe to say what he said, it was his guess. The thing with SA is it was ravaged by multiple waves of multiple covids, is natural was so amazing it wouldn't have had nearly the cases it did with Omicron. Which is why I am not surprised to see that it is fairing fairly similar to double vaxx. The following defense of it through strawman's and then whatever it was that Rayzda was doing was certainly not helpful. He could have just said, "no I don't have a source, I'm just guessing because he had it so recently that it would protect better." And I would have been done, since he has as much a right to guess as anyone else. It does not look like its right, but it also a extremely tough thing to measure because you would need enough of a sample size of recently infected people. You would also need to know which variant as they might not all be equal. That sucks guys, I hope they are able to get past this wave with as little suffering as possible. There is a lot more light at the end of the tunnel talk before. But even if it is 1/2 as severe that does not help in the immediate if 10x the number of people are getting it all at the same time. Look at Oregon's cases. We are still extremely early in the spike, considering hospitalizations are usually 1-2 weeks after infection peaks. The peak is still a vertical line for INFECTIONS. Oregon losing huge swaths of staff and we were already canceling cancer treatments. We're likely looking at a complete breakdown of our medical system within the next couple weeks. Really scary stuff. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22440 Posts
On January 11 2022 07:31 BlackJack wrote: Yes, but then you also need to believe he had Covid 1 month ago, and I (and I think the Australian government) don't believe him. Its awfully convenient, it means 1 month ago he wasn't even planning to come to the AO (because he couldn't prior to getting infected).Yes, thanks. My point was very specific - If Novak Djokovic was infected 1 month ago you can confidently say he is better protected than the typical double-vaxxed person that would be permitted to play in the Australia Open. So logically you can't say Novak is being kept from the Australia open for safety reasons but you could say he is being kept out of the Australia Open because he didn't want to follow the rules that everyone else did, i.e. everyone else got their jabs so he should have to get his too. It's not even a terrible argument. I thought Rafael put it eloquently, something along the lines of "there has already been a lot of suffering for someone to not follow the rules." But for some reason people think they lose moral ground if they phrase it this way so they have to pretend that Novak is a danger to everyone. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27077 Posts
On January 11 2022 07:31 BlackJack wrote: Yes, thanks. My point was very specific - If Novak Djokovic was infected 1 month ago you can confidently say he is better protected than the typical double-vaxxed person that would be permitted to play in the Australia Open. So logically you can't say Novak is being kept from the Australia open for safety reasons but you could say he is being kept out of the Australia Open because he didn't want to follow the rules that everyone else did, i.e. everyone else got their jabs so he should have to get his too. It's not even a terrible argument. I thought Rafael put it eloquently, something along the lines of "there has already been a lot of suffering for someone to not follow the rules." But for some reason people think they lose moral ground if they phrase it this way so they have to pretend that Novak is a danger to everyone. In that specific case. Which I believe you specifically referred to, as did I in saying I am almost certainly less protected/more a risk than Djokovic Can’t speak to the wider world, at least in this thread the ire seemed to be primarily for a perceived favour being given to a famine tourist to one of the most heavily restricted places on the planet in terms of the native populace. And subsequently (for me anyway) that said previously privileged individual appeared to be lured to Australia only for politicians to seek to curry favour by unfairly making an example of him. Criticisms of Djokovic’s stance were firmly couched within a general stance of vaccination being a good idea, not that he posed some huge danger. I think the danger is extrapolating this out to be policy. Assuming Djokovic isn’t bullshitting, which tbh I don’t personally, he’s at close to peak immunity via timing, he’s famous, the whole thing is in the media spotlight. He’s in the absolute sweet spot as a perfect verifiable natural immunity candidate, on his individual circumstances I think an exemption would be appropriate. I’m just not sure on the level of a whole population if you can effectively administer a natural immunity pass, with difficulties of verification etc. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5834 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On January 11 2022 07:53 Gorsameth wrote: Yes, but then you also need to believe he had Covid 1 month ago, and I (and I think the Australian government) don't believe him. Its awfully convenient, it means 1 month ago he wasn't even planning to come to the AO (because he couldn't prior to getting infected). Getting infected with COVID in December wouldn't exactly be the coincidence of the century | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8892 Posts
On January 11 2022 11:18 BlackJack wrote: Getting infected with COVID in December wouldn't exactly be the coincidence of the century the issue is that what would have happened to djokovic if he wasnt "lucky" and gotten infected with covid? was his expectation that he wouldnt play in the australian open at all until he caught what he needed to get the exemption? its far more unlikely that djokovic would ever have considered that he wouldnt be playing the open which is why its far more likely that he has manufactured an infection record at his convenience in order to be eligible for exemption. so far as weve seen, hes an anti vaxxer but he isnt a covid denier. if hes going around after hes allegedly tested positive for covid without masks and just spreading covid around, hes either a scumbag or his story is bullshit. either way thats not an ideal candidate for exemption | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
Novak Djokovic's visa controversy 'damaging on all fronts' - ATP https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/59944701 | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8892 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On January 11 2022 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: theres now claims that djokovic provided false information on his immigration form also. this drama is probably more entertaining than the open itself I mean there's really no way he got admission based on what we know about his situation and the requirements. | ||
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