TeamLiquid, what is your response to Blizzard? - Page 4

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17976 Posts

October 18 2019 15:42 GMT

#61

On October 13 2019 01:30 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
TeamLiquid in the past has supported LGBT and has taken other political stances in the past.

i think its unrealistic to expect a comprehensive position from TL on LGBT issues, the China/Blizzard conflict or any other political matter.

Can TL or its agents/reps offer vague generalizations or abstract perspectives about some political issue? sure. It is unrealistic to ask TL's agents and reps to go into any kind of detail.

So as you put it .... "TeamLiquid in the past has supported LGBT"

So then, just off the top of my head here...

Does this mean TL supports Fallon Fox fighting female-born women?
Does this mean TL is against the Vancouver Rape Crisis Centre's actions to exclude transgender women in certain parts of the emergency treatment areas?
Some primary school girls are avoiding using the bathroom when experiencing their first menstruation cycle in the new "anything goes" public school washrooms. Does TL recommend discipline and punishments to these 11 year old girls who some are labelling as trans-phobic?

TL can't get into any kinds of details on any of these issues. Furthermore, let's assume TL formulates some comprehensive response to the Fallon Fox MMA issue. Does this mean every employee has to study the case thoroughly and be able to answer any and all questions surrounding this issue at the drop of a hat? Nah. That is unrealistic.

I'd just like TL to be a good spot to discuss SC2 game play. It is a difficult balancing act to maintain a good environment for fruitful authentic discussion about SC2 game play. Over the years TL has done a good job facilitating such discussion. TL is somewhat better than BNet. Obviously, BNet management tries to facilitate fruitful discussion about SC2 game play as well. IMO, BNet is ok while TL is somewhat better. So here I am.. yapping away.

I'm happy with TL whether or not they discuss China.
TL does a nice job organizing all the SC2 activities with their right side bar. Its the feature of the site i probably use the most. Over the years I've probably handed TL .. i dunno .. $100 maybe... I've gotten more than my money's worth.

Is TL perfect or close to perfect? nah, but i don't expect it to be.

ColdLava

Canada1673 Posts

October 19 2019 18:31 GMT

#62

On October 18 2019 00:30 JackyVSO wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 15 2019 23:29 Glacierz wrote:

On October 13 2019 03:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
And then I've registered that big protests have been happening, initially over some extradition law pertaining whether people from Hong Kong could be extradited to China, but where the protesters started demanding more, in form of 'western democracy' and freedom of speech, etc, where tensions have been increasing.

People in HK already enjoy freedom of speech, otherwise there would not be a protest to begin with. What they wanted ultimately is free democratic elections to ensure the governing body does not become a puppet of China. The younger generation constitutes the majority of the protesters. They are afraid of what will happen in 2047 when the 50 year agreement ends. This sentiment has been building up for quite some time, the extradition law is just a fuse that lit the whole thing up.

Many people in the mainland originally sympathized with this movement. They later got turned away as news coverage revealed a minority of protesters starting to demand independence/secession, even though the official list of demands contain no such things. I just came back from a visit to HK, the slogans/graffiti around the city definitely contain phrases suggesting taking HK back to the colonial times under western rule, so at least this part is true. So when people in the west makes a public statement such as "Free HK", people in the mainland would interpret it as calling for HK's secession from China. This is a big no-no in a very nationalistic country.

You said it well, not many people would be willing to admit not knowing enough to make a stance. The biased media coverage fueled the escalation of the matter, driving people apart and forcing everyone to take sides on this with an incomplete picture of the whole situation.

I also agree with you that China has exercised much restraints in dealing with the HK situation compared to other minority groups such as Tibet. People are jumping on this issue because it is being made a big deal by the news channels. Sometimes, freedom of the press can do more harm than good if it does not provide unbiased, independent coverage.

It would be wise for foreign corporations to stay out of matters concerning the sovereignty of the state. When people who live locally don't even have the complete picture of what's going on, how do you expect these entities to take an official stance?

I think this is very accurate.

From my point of view -- I've lived in mainland China and speak Chinese -- I've seen enough of the other side of this conflict (and I don't mean from reading state-controlled media but from talking to people in mainland China) that the simplistic, one-sided and holier-than-thou approach a lot of Westerners take on this issue just gives me a headache.

I'm not in any doubt that Blizzard did what they did for purely financial reasons. They of course have every right to control their own platforms as they see fit (and that has nothing to do with freedom of speech) but I agree with the person in this thread who pointed out that if someone made a controversial statement about Ireland, it probably wouldn't have been dealt with the same way.
Why? Money.

If anyone wants to put up a fight, that's what they'll be fighting against. I guess there would be some merit to making Blizzard feel that if they punish people for utterances that aren't clearly immoral (such as holocaust denial or support for terrorism), there's going to be a backlash. But then we will also need to all nod and be accepting when people start using Blizzard's platform to say "Free Palestine!" or "The West Bank belongs to Israel!" or "Long live the Islamic Republic of Iran", or "Give Ireland back to the Irish".

I think there's something a lot of people that aren't from western countries aren't getting (although I see live in Denmark).

This particular issue is not really about the fact that Hong Kong is struggling against China. And it's not even about the fact that Blizzard doesn't want inappropriate conduct from the gamers representing their game (Although I wouldn't say they're representing blizzard at all, they play blizzard's game, they don't work for them.)

It's about the fact that a company from the US is getting leveraged by a foreign government and use fairly severe punishments to try to control people saying negative things about said government. The same thing is happening with the NBA for instance. It's not about the attack on Hong Kong, that's a separate issue. It's about the attack on us. It's exposing a huge problem that corporatism and big businesses mingling with authoritorian regimes have.

Vegetarian Wolf

China434 Posts

October 22 2019 19:40 GMT

#63

On October 13 2019 01:30 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
TeamLiquid in the past has supported LGBT and has taken other political stances in the past.

It has remained oddly silent on the on going fiasco that is Activision Blizzard. Not even a “What they did was in poor taste but we’re going to keep playing in their tournaments.” as some others have done.

Having taken stances in the past, I feel it does NOT give you a free pass to sit this out.

Except maybe you’re being forced to since you’re sponsored, in part, by China as well via Huya.com which is owned by YY Inc which is ran by China’s propaganda department. Regardless if the site as a whole is being pressured to stay quiet. I ASK for an answer.

+ Show Spoiler +

I’ve been coming to this site for a long time and I consider it my main hangout but depending on how TL moves forward on this will determine my reaction.

I’m hoping to hear something by next week or I’ll have to take a stance against TL and any other pro-team taking Chinese money as well.

Weren't you the person who got fired from your gaming industry job because you were throwing around racist slurs targeting Asians? Interesting! Guess you still really hate Asians...

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