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On November 19 2019 12:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 11:30 JimmiC wrote:On November 19 2019 10:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 19 2019 09:51 JimmiC wrote:
None of what he said is how you re-framed it. Please don't be incendiary just for the sake of it. Your last post added no value to the discussion, did not respond to what he said or provide no information. Keep that out of here. Thank you. Hunting them like animals is a quote Añez’s new interior minister, Arturo Murillo, said Wednesday that he had spoken with police and ordered a hunt for his predecessor, Juan Ramón Quintana — using the Spanish word for hunt that applies to chasing an animal.
“Why is it a hunt? Because he is an animal who is killing people,” Murillo said. Quintana apparently had vanished from sight. www.batimes.com.ar you linked the article that said the new president refused elections without an explanation Her chief responsibility as temporary leader though is organising new elections within 90 days, and for this she has shown only limited enthusiasm. On Thursday, politicians from Morales’s party and the interim government said they had struck a deal to pave the way for a new vote in 90 days. But on Friday Áñez said that deal had failed, without providing further explanation. www.theguardian.com, and the police attacking the reporter was caught on video and posted here. Keep the backseat moderating to yourself would ya please? He explained himself clearly, there is no need to this attacking position. Not agreeing with your choice of news sources and cherry picking out of the stories I post only what you want to hear is what causes issues. I was trying to just give you a straightforward and friendly bit of advice, but if you would prefer moderation I won't in the future. Good night. We have contrary positions for which I made my case and they made theirs and I'm willing to agree to disagree on it lest they make a more convincing argument (and presume they are in the same position). Your unsolicited advice isn't helpful to that end.
To GH: I don’t have any problem with the current exchange. Although I feel like sometimes that you are misrepresenting my position and responding as if I were defending a dictator(I am not). Police brutality and human rights violations in the last week show that resistance against the interim gov is needed.
I think that our disagreement boils down to the use of violence. You seem to think that violent action is not only required but inevitable. I still hope that a peaceful solution to the crisis can be found. Morales and the MAS going down a road leading to civil war is, in my view, irresponsible. I guess we can agree to disagree on this.
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On November 19 2019 21:11 Mo_tx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 12:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 19 2019 11:30 JimmiC wrote:On November 19 2019 10:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 19 2019 09:51 JimmiC wrote:
None of what he said is how you re-framed it. Please don't be incendiary just for the sake of it. Your last post added no value to the discussion, did not respond to what he said or provide no information. Keep that out of here. Thank you. Hunting them like animals is a quote Añez’s new interior minister, Arturo Murillo, said Wednesday that he had spoken with police and ordered a hunt for his predecessor, Juan Ramón Quintana — using the Spanish word for hunt that applies to chasing an animal.
“Why is it a hunt? Because he is an animal who is killing people,” Murillo said. Quintana apparently had vanished from sight. www.batimes.com.ar you linked the article that said the new president refused elections without an explanation Her chief responsibility as temporary leader though is organising new elections within 90 days, and for this she has shown only limited enthusiasm. On Thursday, politicians from Morales’s party and the interim government said they had struck a deal to pave the way for a new vote in 90 days. But on Friday Áñez said that deal had failed, without providing further explanation. www.theguardian.com, and the police attacking the reporter was caught on video and posted here. https://twitter.com/malonebarry/status/1195513931881680901Keep the backseat moderating to yourself would ya please? He explained himself clearly, there is no need to this attacking position. Not agreeing with your choice of news sources and cherry picking out of the stories I post only what you want to hear is what causes issues. I was trying to just give you a straightforward and friendly bit of advice, but if you would prefer moderation I won't in the future. Good night. We have contrary positions for which I made my case and they made theirs and I'm willing to agree to disagree on it lest they make a more convincing argument (and presume they are in the same position). Your unsolicited advice isn't helpful to that end. To GH: I don’t have any problem with the current exchange. Although I feel like sometimes that you are misrepresenting my position and responding as if I were defending a dictator(I am not). Police brutality and human rights violations in the last week show that resistance against the interim gov is needed. I think that our disagreement boils down to the use of violence. You seem to think that violent action is not only required but inevitable. I still hope that a peaceful solution to the crisis can be found. Morales and the MAS going down a road leading to civil war is, in my view, irresponsible. I guess we can agree to disagree on this.
I've seen that violent action has already been employed and will continue whether MAS and others (like the journalist) are completely non-violent or not. So I don't know what there's to disagree about when it comes to the necessity of violence or it's inevitability, it's already happening.
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it's been a full month, A FULL MONTH, and our president is still "missing", barely any solutions
they are violating our human rights, shooting us right unto our faces (more than 200 people have lost an eye), throwing us gasses, 24 have been killed by either cops or the military.
And i dont' see a turning point besides the president quitting... one month of rioting, violence and killing, and most of it has been coming from the govt.
I've been going to marchs and gatherings almost every day after work, and i'm not stopping, they went too far
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On November 19 2019 22:07 Faruko wrote:
it's been a full month, A FULL MONTH, and our president is still "missing", barely any solutions
they are violating our human rights, shooting us right unto our faces (more than 200 people have lost and eye), throwing us gasses, 24 have been killed by either cops or the military.
And i dont' see a turning point besides the president quitting... one month of rioting, violence and killing, and most of it has been coming from the govt.
I've been going to marchs and gatherings almost every day after work, and i'm not stopping, they went too far
Solidarity from the heart of the empire.
You have to understand that people have to pay the price for peace. If you dare to struggle, you dare to win. If you dare not to struggle then god damn it, you don't deserve to win. Let me say peace to you, if you're willing to fight for it.
__
We ain't gonna fight no reactionary pigs who run up and down the street being reactionary; we're gonna organize and dedicate ourselves to revolutionary political power and teach ourselves the specific needs of resisting the power structure, arm ourselves, and we're gonna fight reactionary pigs with international proletarian revolution.
—Fred Hampton
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Here is an interesting article from the telegraph where it talks about how both the uprisings in Bolivia and Chile are called coups even though different sides are the ones participating. It talks about how the right is now trying to take over in Bolivia after the Indigenous and working class were part of it originally against Morales. It also talks about the excessive force in Chile, sorry to hear Faruko I hope the world pays attention and helps.
I particularly found this quote interesting.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/19/protests-chile-bolivia-may-have-common-think/amp/#=
Edit: darnit LOL The second time I went in to find the it is pay to read. But basically the quote said something along the lines of how right now everyone is interested and believing conspiracy theories, I'll see if I can get it when I get to work.
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Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup?
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My work computer won't as well, but there are people calling it a coup led by Cuba and Venezuela, so this is from memory of the article, maybe someone who clicks on it the first time or has a telegraph subscription can put it up here. Much like how you kept calling the uprising in Venezuela a Coup even though the military was not involved. There are conspiracy theorists all over the place.
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On November 19 2019 22:07 Faruko wrote:
it's been a full month, A FULL MONTH, and our president is still "missing", barely any solutions
they are violating our human rights, shooting us right unto our faces (more than 200 people have lost an eye), throwing us gasses, 24 have been killed by either cops or the military.
And i dont' see a turning point besides the president quitting... one month of rioting, violence and killing, and most of it has been coming from the govt.
I've been going to marchs and gatherings almost every day after work, and i'm not stopping, they went too far
What happens if/when Piñera resigns, doesn't his cousin take over, who is presumably worse? Is there anyone acceptable down the succession chain who can calm things down? I saw Piñera made a few concessions and promised a new constitutional process but I can't tell how relevant these were to you guys on the ground.
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On November 19 2019 23:41 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 22:07 Faruko wrote:
it's been a full month, A FULL MONTH, and our president is still "missing", barely any solutions
they are violating our human rights, shooting us right unto our faces (more than 200 people have lost an eye), throwing us gasses, 24 have been killed by either cops or the military.
And i dont' see a turning point besides the president quitting... one month of rioting, violence and killing, and most of it has been coming from the govt.
I've been going to marchs and gatherings almost every day after work, and i'm not stopping, they went too far What happens if/when Piñera resigns, doesn't his cousin take over, who is presumably worse? Is there anyone acceptable down the succession chain who can calm things down? I saw Piñera made a few concessions and promised a new constitutional process but I can't tell how relevant these were to you guys on the ground.
His cousin is no longer Minister so he cant be electable to be President, there's 2 possibilities
BEFORE MARCH 11 2020 = Ministry of the Interior and Public Security is named president but has to immediately call of elections
AFTER MARCH 11 2020 = the Congress decides the new president out of the congress people
The constitution is something great, because we are still chained by the one made y Pinochet and Jaime Guzman, but thats something that will generate benefits in 3-5 years, not today, and people can't make it to the end of the month TODAY, we still need to fight for better education, salaries and health programas
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On November 19 2019 23:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup?
Some people are saying that we are getting paid by either Venezuela or Russia
Yes, they are that stupid.
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On November 19 2019 23:46 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 23:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup? Some people are saying that we are getting paid by either Venezuela or Russia Yes, they are that stupid.
pinochetistas I imagine. It's hard to believe informed people would equate Guaido literally calling for a coup and pinochetista propaganda.
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On November 20 2019 00:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 23:46 Faruko wrote:On November 19 2019 23:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup? Some people are saying that we are getting paid by either Venezuela or Russia Yes, they are that stupid. pinochetistas I imagine. It's hard to believe informed people would equate Guaido literally calling for a coup and pinochetista propaganda.
Do you not think that the protesters in Chile would not like military to remove their current leader if he will not go and kills thousands of people? I know you like to be disingenuous, and extremely biased, but even for you this is pretty silly.
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On November 20 2019 00:13 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2019 00:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 19 2019 23:46 Faruko wrote:On November 19 2019 23:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup? Some people are saying that we are getting paid by either Venezuela or Russia Yes, they are that stupid. pinochetistas I imagine. It's hard to believe informed people would equate Guaido literally calling for a coup and pinochetista propaganda. Do you not think that the protesters in Chile would not like military to remove their current leader if he will not go and kills thousands of people? I know you like to be disingenuous, and extremely biased, but even for you this is pretty silly.
I think Faruko can probably answer that better than I can, if they want to be so gracious, but I'm guessing few of them would turn to the military for help...
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On November 19 2019 23:46 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 23:41 Sbrubbles wrote:On November 19 2019 22:07 Faruko wrote:
it's been a full month, A FULL MONTH, and our president is still "missing", barely any solutions
they are violating our human rights, shooting us right unto our faces (more than 200 people have lost an eye), throwing us gasses, 24 have been killed by either cops or the military.
And i dont' see a turning point besides the president quitting... one month of rioting, violence and killing, and most of it has been coming from the govt.
I've been going to marchs and gatherings almost every day after work, and i'm not stopping, they went too far What happens if/when Piñera resigns, doesn't his cousin take over, who is presumably worse? Is there anyone acceptable down the succession chain who can calm things down? I saw Piñera made a few concessions and promised a new constitutional process but I can't tell how relevant these were to you guys on the ground. His cousin is no longer Minister so he cant be electable to be President, there's 2 possibilities BEFORE MARCH 11 2020 = Ministry of the Interior and Public Security is named president but has to immediately call of elections AFTER MARCH 11 2020 = the Congress decides the new president out of the congress people The constitution is something great, because we are still chained by the one made y Pinochet and Jaime Guzman, but thats something that will generate benefits in 3-5 years, not today, and people can't make it to the end of the month TODAY, we still need to fight for better education, salaries and health programas
So, what's the plan? Piñera resigns then Bachelet (maybe?) gets elected and presumably calls for a constitutional assembly?
Sorry about asking for so many details, but what do you expect from a new constitution and/or what do you expect to get rid of in the old one? I understand the old one had autocratic provisions like senators nominated by the military and other things like this, though some of this was already removed.
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I simply want to point out Faruko is a supporter of the comunist party's point of view, with less than 5% support in the last election. Not any left wing politicians aside from the actual comunist party and a few other supporters want our DULY ELECTED DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT FROM 2 YEARS AGO to resign.
The police brutality thing is blown massively out of proportion and dishonest people like Faruko and his propaganda want to place all 22 dead on the government. Truth is that with current data only 5 people have been shot by the police/military on to be determined circumstances, most likely involving lootings and or direct atacks to the police, but we know WITH CERTAINTY (we even have the videos) that 12-15 people died in fires in the same lootings, 2 people were run over by a drunk driver, 1 people was run over in a looting by a military vehicle, etc. One person was stabbed to death by looters when defending his small business, not sure if he is added to this 22 fake number of people "killed by the government"
Police brutality is obviously bound to happen with the amount of rioting and violence going on, the amount of police of the streets and the severity of the atacks towards police, private and public property and people, but saying it is a state policy to opress people protesting peacefully is simply not true. I don't have the time now, but tons of videos are available about the violent crimes going on that are not "peaceful protests" and of the police being atacked and them not defending themselves, to the extreme point most of the anglo-saxon poster on this forum would look at them and say: wtf why isn't the police using his service gun to defend himself.
I'll bring some videos to the forum later.
Feel free to post questions, I will do my best to separate facts from opinions stating them clearly (as I did with the death count part). That said, all posters are biased so you can think by yourselves 
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On November 20 2019 03:20 GoTuNk! wrote:Feel free to post questions, I will do my best to separate facts from opinions stating them clearly (as I did with the death count part). That said, all posters are biased so you can think by yourselves
Do you think there's anything Piñera can put on the table to calm protests?
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On November 19 2019 22:07 Faruko wrote:
it's been a full month, A FULL MONTH, and our president is still "missing", barely any solutions
they are violating our human rights, shooting us right unto our faces (more than 200 people have lost an eye), throwing us gasses, 24 have been killed by either cops or the military.
And i dont' see a turning point besides the president quitting... one month of rioting, violence and killing, and most of it has been coming from the govt.
I've been going to marchs and gatherings almost every day after work, and i'm not stopping, they went too far
Solidarity.
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On November 20 2019 03:20 GoTuNk! wrote:I simply want to point out Faruko is a supporter of the comunist party's point of view, with less than 5% support in the last election. Not any left wing politicians aside from the actual comunist party and a few other supporters want our DULY ELECTED DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT FROM 2 YEARS AGO to resign. The police brutality thing is blown massively out of proportion and dishonest people like Faruko and his propaganda want to place all 22 dead on the government. Truth is that with current data only 5 people have been shot by the police/military on to be determined circumstances, most likely involving lootings and or direct atacks to the police, but we know WITH CERTAINTY (we even have the videos) that 12-15 people died in fires in the same lootings, 2 people were run over by a drunk driver, 1 people was run over in a looting by a military vehicle, etc. One person was stabbed to death by looters when defending his small business, not sure if he is added to this 22 fake number of people "killed by the government" Police brutality is obviously bound to happen with the amount of rioting and violence going on, the amount of police of the streets and the severity of the atacks towards police, private and public property and people, but saying it is a state policy to opress people protesting peacefully is simply not true. I don't have the time now, but tons of videos are available about the violent crimes going on that are not "peaceful protests" and of the police being atacked and them not defending themselves, to the extreme point most of the anglo-saxon poster on this forum would look at them and say: wtf why isn't the police using his service gun to defend himself. I'll bring some videos to the forum later. Feel free to post questions, I will do my best to separate facts from opinions stating them clearly (as I did with the death count part). That said, all posters are biased so you can think by yourselves
This is the most outrageous shit i've read in a while
And no, i'm no communist, and yes, kids have been shot, 12 YEAR OLD GIRL WAS SHOT!
Are you saying that we deserved to be shot, killed, violated and dehumanized by the police? this is incredibly. And no, the number is not fake, i'm a bit shocked to see this kind of post, go out and smell the coffee. there's even international NGOs looking at Chile
Oh and by the way, did you know that cops don't follow protocols, they are using ammunition that's not allowed? did you know that cops are using fake names so they can't be identified? Did you know that the tear gas they are using is out of date and can end up transforming into cyanide?
The other fucking day they were shooting at my fucking building, literally aiming at the windows, and by they way they should fire to the feets or up in the air, if that's the case, tell me how people are losing their eyes
There's countless of videos of the cops and military abusing their power sure there's violence, but wtf do you want? for once, the force is not equal, not by a long shot, and these people have been getting hammered for 30 years, of course it's their way to respond
And, this is fun, i can't remember people accepting the ELECTED DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT back in 73, and another thing that's funny, 4 big left wing parties just signed a letter to accuse the president, so you can scratch that one out too
And come the FUCKING ON, of course this is not a neoliberalism movement but it's not communist either. wtf, have you ever been to Plaza Italia or something, even talk with someone?, it's a move to recover our fucking dignity that has been destroyed for 30 fucking years, there's millions out there marching.
If you lie down with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas.
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On November 19 2019 23:46 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 23:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup? Some people are saying that we are getting paid by either Venezuela or Russia Yes, they are that stupid.
Do people think this is an American sponsored/run/trained coup going on?
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On November 20 2019 07:19 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2019 23:46 Faruko wrote:On November 19 2019 23:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Who is calling the protests in Chile a coup? Some people are saying that we are getting paid by either Venezuela or Russia Yes, they are that stupid. Do people think this is an American sponsored/run/trained coup going on?
Not in Chile, it is Venezuela and Bolivia where that conspiracy is floated. Basically if a Leftist government is overthrown it is a US lead conspiracy and if it is a right wing one it is Cuba, Venezuela, Russia or China behind it.
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WCS
