• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:29
CEST 20:29
KST 03:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End0Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!41Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
Rush's Odyssey Controversy StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II BW General Discussion Best Games Kespa era [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group A CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9563 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5632

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5630 5631 5632 5633 5634 5912 Next
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3038 Posts
April 04 2026 20:11 GMT
#112621
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6394 Posts
April 04 2026 20:17 GMT
#112622
On April 05 2026 05:11 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 05:00 oBlade wrote:
you said that there are mines just waiting to float to the surface from the bottom of the Strait of Hormuz

To be clear, this is a real thing. Iran is currently controlling the strait with threats and giving/denying permission to ships for passage. They haven't hard closed it with mines, they don't want to, because if they did then they wouldn't be able to give permission to ships as easily. Therefore any remotely deployed mine system would still be embedded on the sea floor.
Show nested quote +
Bottom mines utilize negative buoyancy to rest on the bottom or buried into the sea floor. Because they sit on the sea floor, bottom mines can be packed with bigger explosive charges; bottom mines available on the international market have explosive charges up to at least 2,200 pounds. Many bottom mines are influence mines, but they can also actuate via contact or remote-control. Because many bottom mines rely on sensing vessels on the surface, and because their explosive energy has to reach a ship’s keel floating near the surface, bottom mines tend to work in relatively shallow water (less than 164 feet).

https://www.strausscenter.org/strait-of-hormuz-mines/

This is a classic example of you simply not understanding how ignorant you are on the basics of the subject. I say mines and you're imagining WW1 sea mines washing around with the currents. One of the reasons the US is so reluctant to commit ships to the strait is because mine technology has evolved. That leaves you smugly saying shit like this
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 03:06 oBlade wrote:
She also appears to think Hormuz is mined when it's not (remembering that "ackshually at least one mine has been seen at some point" is not what we're talking about for blocking with mines). Even if Iran had boats left to carry mines, due to how water currents work you can't selectively mine and they would therefore be mining against the shadow tankers carrying their own oil and cutting off their chief export.
because you're literally incapable of understanding that you're less informed than these people. "How can she say it's mined even though ships haven't all blown up?!? Has she never heard of currents?!?!" The disconnect isn't that she doesn't know about currents, it's that you don't know about mines.

I didn't say the technology didn't exist.

You put forth an unfalsifiable claim that Iran has secretly evil genius masterplanned a bunch of mines that they could spring into action at any time. As some kind of coup de grace. Pre-laid. We can't wait forever to be sure that's wrong but so far it looks like it was an overestimation.

Ships have been hit and damaged but so far in this war I don't think there's been a single mine impact.

Oh oBlade you say, that's because mines are inherently deterrents, they keep ships away instead of being blown up.

And okay we go back to... where are they all?

In general, Iranian capabilities in laying any type of mine, bottom, moored or otherwise, remain largely untested and unproven. The lack of expertise increases chances that mines, either deployed via Kilo or small boats, will be laid unsuccessfully and prove useless in any mining campaign.

Theorycrafted.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44242 Posts
April 04 2026 20:23 GMT
#112623
On April 05 2026 05:17 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 05:11 KwarK wrote:
On April 05 2026 05:00 oBlade wrote:
you said that there are mines just waiting to float to the surface from the bottom of the Strait of Hormuz

To be clear, this is a real thing. Iran is currently controlling the strait with threats and giving/denying permission to ships for passage. They haven't hard closed it with mines, they don't want to, because if they did then they wouldn't be able to give permission to ships as easily. Therefore any remotely deployed mine system would still be embedded on the sea floor.
Bottom mines utilize negative buoyancy to rest on the bottom or buried into the sea floor. Because they sit on the sea floor, bottom mines can be packed with bigger explosive charges; bottom mines available on the international market have explosive charges up to at least 2,200 pounds. Many bottom mines are influence mines, but they can also actuate via contact or remote-control. Because many bottom mines rely on sensing vessels on the surface, and because their explosive energy has to reach a ship’s keel floating near the surface, bottom mines tend to work in relatively shallow water (less than 164 feet).

https://www.strausscenter.org/strait-of-hormuz-mines/

This is a classic example of you simply not understanding how ignorant you are on the basics of the subject. I say mines and you're imagining WW1 sea mines washing around with the currents. One of the reasons the US is so reluctant to commit ships to the strait is because mine technology has evolved. That leaves you smugly saying shit like this
On April 05 2026 03:06 oBlade wrote:
She also appears to think Hormuz is mined when it's not (remembering that "ackshually at least one mine has been seen at some point" is not what we're talking about for blocking with mines). Even if Iran had boats left to carry mines, due to how water currents work you can't selectively mine and they would therefore be mining against the shadow tankers carrying their own oil and cutting off their chief export.
because you're literally incapable of understanding that you're less informed than these people. "How can she say it's mined even though ships haven't all blown up?!? Has she never heard of currents?!?!" The disconnect isn't that she doesn't know about currents, it's that you don't know about mines.

I didn't say the technology didn't exist.

You put forth an unfalsifiable claim that Iran has secretly evil genius masterplanned a bunch of mines that they could spring into action at any time. As some kind of coup de grace. Pre-laid. We can't wait forever to be sure that's wrong but so far it looks like it was an overestimation.

Ships have been hit and damaged but so far in this war I don't think there's been a single mine impact.

Oh oBlade you say, that's because mines are inherently deterrents, they keep ships away instead of being blown up.

And okay we go back to... where are they all?

Show nested quote +
In general, Iranian capabilities in laying any type of mine, bottom, moored or otherwise, remain largely untested and unproven. The lack of expertise increases chances that mines, either deployed via Kilo or small boats, will be laid unsuccessfully and prove useless in any mining campaign.

Theorycrafted.

lol

“there are mines”
“lol noob ever heard of currents”
“that’s not how mines work”
“obviously I knew that”
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22519 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-04-04 20:26:57
April 04 2026 20:26 GMT
#112624
its funny how before Trump Presidents didn't get homesick and didn't have to run home every few days.
If they wanted to get away from the White House they would go to Camp David, a secure facility designed to accommodate the security of a Presidential stay.

Not Trump tho, he needs his own safe space.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11593 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-04-04 22:28:11
April 04 2026 20:30 GMT
#112625
@oBlade
You really manage to latch on to the lesser thing while defending to the hilt the main critique.
No, there was no intentional bait and switch.

My first sentence
"Meanwhile, Trump has already managed to cost the government $100m so he can golf on his own courses."

Trump cost the government $100M so he can golf on his own courses. True or not true?
I then linked the article.
My second sentence says exorbitant sums, true, and I could have specified that by exorbitant sums, I don't mean the whole of the $100M but some amount less than that but I thought it was unnecessary to add a third clarifying sentence.

And quite frankly, such clarifications are entirely unnecessary to prevent your pedantry as the rest of your post is fully on board with this kind of spending- you agree in principle no matter the amount. (And, remember this is only one year, so we are on pace to easily surpass the first term tally.) You further straw man as though I think he should be living in a basement and never golf... just like all past presidents, right? There is an ocean of difference between 'never golfing' and golfing 103 days out of 440. And specifically flying out of state pretty much every weekend to golf on your own courses. Trump spending on himself is extravagant and is a conflict of interest to his own business interests. But it's Trump, so you don't care.
Moderator5000 of our finest Taliban warriors have been released! Rise up my brothers. Mashalla! al-Donald ibn-Frederick al-Masih allows it.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
April 04 2026 20:43 GMT
#112626
On April 05 2026 05:26 Gorsameth wrote:
its funny how before Trump Presidents didn't get homesick and didn't have to run home every few days.
If they wanted to get away from the White House they would go to Camp David, a secure facility designed to accommodate the security of a Presidential stay.

Not Trump tho, he needs his own safe space.


ask not what your President can do for you while in office, ask what you can do for him you ungrateful subject!
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Razyda
Profile Joined March 2013
1058 Posts
April 05 2026 02:30 GMT
#112627
On April 03 2026 11:04 baal wrote:
Such a weird firing of Bondi, maybe it got into his head since "the apprentice" because his hair-trigger firing seem very bad for him, in the government these firing send a message of instability while maybe he just does it out of impulse.


To be fair only weird thing about firing her, is that it took so long. she was clowned upon for her initial Epstein files stunt, then became hated after Kirk death for her retarded "hate speech is not free speech" remark, and then again almost all Trump base was openly calling for sacking her, after follow up of Epstein files release.

On April 02 2026 12:27 KwarK wrote:

There's a chasm between "the US is perfect" and "it'd be better if there was no dominant power". The last time we tried a world with an absent US superpower was the 1930s and it didn't go well. Even if the US isn't good, the existence of the role the US occupies is. We should not be happy at the US defeat here, we should be even angrier at the people who put Trump in charge and frustrated that he couldn't just once not fuck it up the way he always did. Just this once. When it really counted.


Dude wtf are you doing? You are not stupid (far from that), but your argument here falls into "never go full retard" category. Your very example refutes your premise, because, like it or not, nazis were the superpower and thats what makes your argument fall apart, you literally countering your own argument( let me reiterate: Even if the nazis aren't good, the existence of the role the nazis occupie is. .) I am not even mad, just disappointed .

Honestly when issue is non partisan I find your arguments compelling and interesting (eg: shares vs fiat currency [admittedly I do think you overlooked most important part of what makes fiat currency possible] which was brilliant display of knowledge and intelligence.) Unfortunately as soon as argument gets partisan your best response is "I do that, so its fine..."
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States616 Posts
April 05 2026 03:47 GMT
#112628
On April 05 2026 04:08 Falling wrote:@dybb. Still think this guy is a centrist?
Same comment as before. The mixture of left wing and right wing views is one viable definition among several. Highlighting the right-of-center part without looking at the whole picture is foolishness. You might as well call Obama support, Bernie Sanders social security support, anti-Trump's election conspiracies, and Obama healthcare reform support as MAGA policies.

Definitely right-wing on foreign policy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44242 Posts
April 05 2026 04:28 GMT
#112629
On April 05 2026 11:30 Razyda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2026 11:04 baal wrote:
Such a weird firing of Bondi, maybe it got into his head since "the apprentice" because his hair-trigger firing seem very bad for him, in the government these firing send a message of instability while maybe he just does it out of impulse.


To be fair only weird thing about firing her, is that it took so long. she was clowned upon for her initial Epstein files stunt, then became hated after Kirk death for her retarded "hate speech is not free speech" remark, and then again almost all Trump base was openly calling for sacking her, after follow up of Epstein files release.

Show nested quote +
On April 02 2026 12:27 KwarK wrote:

There's a chasm between "the US is perfect" and "it'd be better if there was no dominant power". The last time we tried a world with an absent US superpower was the 1930s and it didn't go well. Even if the US isn't good, the existence of the role the US occupies is. We should not be happy at the US defeat here, we should be even angrier at the people who put Trump in charge and frustrated that he couldn't just once not fuck it up the way he always did. Just this once. When it really counted.


Dude wtf are you doing? You are not stupid (far from that), but your argument here falls into "never go full retard" category. Your very example refutes your premise, because, like it or not, nazis were the superpower and thats what makes your argument fall apart, you literally countering your own argument( let me reiterate: Even if the nazis aren't good, the existence of the role the nazis occupie is. .) I am not even mad, just disappointed .

Honestly when issue is non partisan I find your arguments compelling and interesting (eg: shares vs fiat currency [admittedly I do think you overlooked most important part of what makes fiat currency possible] which was brilliant display of knowledge and intelligence.) Unfortunately as soon as argument gets partisan your best response is "I do that, so its fine..."

When you sober up you should have another go at this post about Nazi superpowers.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
April 05 2026 07:55 GMT
#112630
On April 05 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.


wait did he vote for Biden?
Im back, in pog form!
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5860 Posts
April 05 2026 08:21 GMT
#112631
On April 05 2026 16:55 baal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.


wait did he vote for Biden?

Hilary was so right about people like you. Basket of deplorables.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3038 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-04-05 09:08:24
April 05 2026 09:07 GMT
#112632
On April 05 2026 16:55 baal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.


wait did he vote for Biden?


Posting this to culminate your weeks-long bender of nonstop misinformation posting is just chef's kiss.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2867 Posts
April 05 2026 10:13 GMT
#112633
So who gets to play the WSO in the movie that's about to be made?
The op to get him (and the pilot) out sounds absolutely insane.
Unity, support, family, and kneecapping bitches.
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
April 05 2026 11:01 GMT
#112634
On April 05 2026 18:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 16:55 baal wrote:
On April 05 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.


wait did he vote for Biden?


Posting this to culminate your weeks-long bender of nonstop misinformation posting is just chef's kiss.


you are immune to irony
Im back, in pog form!
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-04-05 11:21:04
April 05 2026 11:16 GMT
#112635
On April 02 2026 21:42 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2026 18:24 baal wrote:
On April 02 2026 16:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
On April 02 2026 11:50 baal wrote:
On April 01 2026 20:55 EnDeR_ wrote:
I don't really want to relitigate the COVID response by different governments, we've already had that one.

The rollout was unprecedented, we have never had any medicine (as far as I know, I could be wrong) rolled out quite that quickly from proof of concept to millions of doses prepared. Like, what would constitute a win for you?

The only reason the US gov did not capitalise on operation warp speed being the absolute win that it was is because Trump is a moron and he picked up antivaxx rethoric instead.

I don't think COVID was a particularly good example of good governance. I think it was a huge far reaching crisis that had extremely complex inter-related parts. It was so complicated that you won't get two people to agree of what would have been the optimum approach even in retrospect.



The vaccine development was pretty good and it was a big win but not for the government, they didn't develop it.

The production was lackluster, it was pretty good for private company standard, but for it to be a government win, they had years to build mega factories "China-style"ready to produce at many multiples the rate of production they had.

But my complains aren't regarding the vaccine it was about response to the pandemic.

Almost every single expert in twitter agreed on the strategy, staticists like Nassim Taleb, viologists were at unison talking about dramatic quick response, and president have access to experts at the highest level, it wasn't ignorance why they under reacted, it was incentives:

If they overreact and the virus turns out to be a dud (like others were) people obv get upset and it hurts the in elections, but overreaction is the correct respose to geometric threats, thats why virtually every government (outside of east asia) under reacted, politics are popularity contests and that is a terrible incentive when the things that must be done are unpopular.


Oh, but that's a very narrow definition of what success looks like. Arguably, if the government had set up production in such a way, there would be an absolute shit storm from a certain political collective about the waste and how their tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidise vaccines in shit hole countries.

To your second point, I hadn't realised that you were referring only to the start of the pandemic. In this case I agree with you, we knew what was going on in China, western countries should have acted sooner, and that first lockdown was delayed for no reason. The UK was a particularly bad offender, business had already locked down before the official guidance arrived, which is kind of nuts. This one was a no-brainer, agree 100%.



lol then we've been agreeing all along.


Why would the construction of a mega-factory be tied with subsidizing vaccines to foreign countries?

It's not a narrow definition or a difficult ask, the mega-factory is not a complex thing to do, if Xi Jinping wants a mega-factory it gets constructed immediately, but western bureaucracies are 99% friction and can't get anything done, not even in emergencies.


My point is that as things shook out, there were enough doses for everyone (in the US, not worldwide). In fact, the US had a huge surplus because the problem wasn't production; it was that people were not taking them and ended up with millions in surplus. Therefore, if there had been a bigger production capacity, you'd just be subsidising other countries who didn't manage to get enough vaccines. Considering all Western democracies managed to get enough doses for everyone living there, you'd be subsidising vaccines for poorer nations, the infamous "shit hole" countries.

I still don't understand why you think it wasn't a huge success considering they produced enough doses for everyone (again, in the US, not worldwide) in a record time.


I took several months, production could have been much faster which means less deaths and reopening the economy, most of the time there is a tradeoff between money and lives saved but on this time they both aligned, it was a win-win and they dropped the ball.

I don't understand why are you insisting on subsidizing as if something you must do if you make a megafactory in time, you can choose to, or not, you can sell them or do whatever the hell you want you are not forced to give them away.


In "record time" compared to what? there is no comparison since there hasn't been a pandemic in modern times, so there is no comparable effort, what you can judge is what the state did, and they did nothing, private companies made a few upgrades to their facilities and that's pretty much it.
Im back, in pog form!
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6394 Posts
April 05 2026 11:39 GMT
#112636
On April 05 2026 17:21 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 16:55 baal wrote:
On April 05 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.


wait did he vote for Biden?

Hilary was so right about people like you. Basket of deplorables.

Yeah that was just way over the line you can't just checks notes call a president a child molester.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46277 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-04-05 11:44:41
April 05 2026 11:44 GMT
#112637
On April 05 2026 20:01 baal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2026 18:07 LightSpectra wrote:
On April 05 2026 16:55 baal wrote:
On April 05 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
"There's no sure in war" there wouldn't have been a war if people as dumb as you didn't vote for a child molester.


wait did he vote for Biden?


Posting this to culminate your weeks-long bender of nonstop misinformation posting is just chef's kiss.


you are immune to irony

How so?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
EnDeR_
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Spain2933 Posts
April 05 2026 12:38 GMT
#112638
On April 05 2026 20:16 baal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2026 21:42 EnDeR_ wrote:
On April 02 2026 18:24 baal wrote:
On April 02 2026 16:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
On April 02 2026 11:50 baal wrote:
On April 01 2026 20:55 EnDeR_ wrote:
I don't really want to relitigate the COVID response by different governments, we've already had that one.

The rollout was unprecedented, we have never had any medicine (as far as I know, I could be wrong) rolled out quite that quickly from proof of concept to millions of doses prepared. Like, what would constitute a win for you?

The only reason the US gov did not capitalise on operation warp speed being the absolute win that it was is because Trump is a moron and he picked up antivaxx rethoric instead.

I don't think COVID was a particularly good example of good governance. I think it was a huge far reaching crisis that had extremely complex inter-related parts. It was so complicated that you won't get two people to agree of what would have been the optimum approach even in retrospect.



The vaccine development was pretty good and it was a big win but not for the government, they didn't develop it.

The production was lackluster, it was pretty good for private company standard, but for it to be a government win, they had years to build mega factories "China-style"ready to produce at many multiples the rate of production they had.

But my complains aren't regarding the vaccine it was about response to the pandemic.

Almost every single expert in twitter agreed on the strategy, staticists like Nassim Taleb, viologists were at unison talking about dramatic quick response, and president have access to experts at the highest level, it wasn't ignorance why they under reacted, it was incentives:

If they overreact and the virus turns out to be a dud (like others were) people obv get upset and it hurts the in elections, but overreaction is the correct respose to geometric threats, thats why virtually every government (outside of east asia) under reacted, politics are popularity contests and that is a terrible incentive when the things that must be done are unpopular.


Oh, but that's a very narrow definition of what success looks like. Arguably, if the government had set up production in such a way, there would be an absolute shit storm from a certain political collective about the waste and how their tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidise vaccines in shit hole countries.

To your second point, I hadn't realised that you were referring only to the start of the pandemic. In this case I agree with you, we knew what was going on in China, western countries should have acted sooner, and that first lockdown was delayed for no reason. The UK was a particularly bad offender, business had already locked down before the official guidance arrived, which is kind of nuts. This one was a no-brainer, agree 100%.



lol then we've been agreeing all along.


Why would the construction of a mega-factory be tied with subsidizing vaccines to foreign countries?

It's not a narrow definition or a difficult ask, the mega-factory is not a complex thing to do, if Xi Jinping wants a mega-factory it gets constructed immediately, but western bureaucracies are 99% friction and can't get anything done, not even in emergencies.


My point is that as things shook out, there were enough doses for everyone (in the US, not worldwide). In fact, the US had a huge surplus because the problem wasn't production; it was that people were not taking them and ended up with millions in surplus. Therefore, if there had been a bigger production capacity, you'd just be subsidising other countries who didn't manage to get enough vaccines. Considering all Western democracies managed to get enough doses for everyone living there, you'd be subsidising vaccines for poorer nations, the infamous "shit hole" countries.

I still don't understand why you think it wasn't a huge success considering they produced enough doses for everyone (again, in the US, not worldwide) in a record time.


I took several months, production could have been much faster which means less deaths and reopening the economy, most of the time there is a tradeoff between money and lives saved but on this time they both aligned, it was a win-win and they dropped the ball.

I don't understand why are you insisting on subsidizing as if something you must do if you make a megafactory in time, you can choose to, or not, you can sell them or do whatever the hell you want you are not forced to give them away.


In "record time" compared to what? there is no comparison since there hasn't been a pandemic in modern times, so there is no comparable effort, what you can judge is what the state did, and they did nothing, private companies made a few upgrades to their facilities and that's pretty much it.


Baal, if you are genuinely interested in this topic, I would recommend you read this article:

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It wasn't clear which technology was going to be the most successful, but in all honesty it's kind of mind-blowing that within 3 months of approval we were producing millions of vaccines per week. There were all sorts of challenges, from supply chain to skilled workforces that a gov mega factory wouldn't have been able to sidestep easily.
estás más desubicao q un croissant en un plato de nécoras
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6394 Posts
April 05 2026 12:50 GMT
#112639
What did the President of the United States mean by this?

Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the Fuckin’ Strait, you crazy bastards, or you’ll be living in Hell - JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah. President DONALD J. TRUMP
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-04-05 13:17:27
April 05 2026 13:07 GMT
#112640
On April 05 2026 21:50 oBlade wrote:
What did the President of the United States mean by this?

Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the Fuckin’ Strait, you crazy bastards, or you’ll be living in Hell - JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah. President DONALD J. TRUMP


That he is r-ded. Just after his own BAT-21 moment, the hight moment of this whole disaster, and that doesn't say anything because bar is set very low, he had to tweet to look like a complete maniac.
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
Prev 1 5630 5631 5632 5633 5634 5912 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
HomeStory Cup
17:00
Promo Event
TaKeTV 598
IPSL
16:00
CSLAN Day 2
Airneanach239
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 255
mouzHeroMarine 126
BRAT_OK 83
ProTech72
Vindicta 38
EmSc Tv 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Sexy 113
ZZZero.O 40
Dewaltoss 31
Rock 26
NaDa 19
ivOry 12
scan(afreeca) 9
Dota 2
qojqva4478
XaKoH 413
Counter-Strike
fl0m6000
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King281
Chillindude32
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu393
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1656
Grubby1611
Beastyqt697
mouzStarbuck297
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick990
StarCraft 2
EmSc2Tv 18
EmSc Tv 18
angryscii 1
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 24
• maralekos10
• Reevou 4
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki22
• HerbMon 16
• Pr0nogo 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2302
• Nemesis1416
Other Games
• imaqtpie937
• Shiphtur383
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 31m
Afreeca Starleague
15h 31m
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
16h 31m
The Patches Monday
21h 31m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 15h
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
1d 16h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
CSLAN 4
Proleague 2026-08-16
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.