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it appears Israel's Iron Dome is failing with only a 50% success rate lately. There is only 1 solution... take over half of Lebanon. ok guys, can you be a little less transparent?
https://x.com/AmitSegal/status/2031813081190310267
What needs to be done in Lebanon is very simple:
advance to the Litani River, and announce: we will not leave until Hezbollah is disarmed.
But this time, unlike that old security zone, not a single resident returns.
And at the same time, a severe and devastating strike on Dahieh.
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On March 13 2026 01:38 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 01:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 13 2026 01:00 LightSpectra wrote:On March 13 2026 00:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
The reality is that white men (and to a lesser degree women) are the voters fucking it up for the rest of humanity >98% of voters of all races in the United States vote for Democrats or Republicans. How curious to say this when believing in uniparty imperialism, since Democrats would win everything if white men and most white women vanished overnight, who according to you are either just as bad or negligibly better. over 90,000,000 people didn't vote for either of them because the majority of the country finds both of them unfavorable but have been convinced they have no alternative. I think we all would actually agree that we'd be far better off if Democrats took their rightful place as the far-right edge of arguably sane party politics in the US. On March 13 2026 01:08 Jankisa wrote:On March 13 2026 00:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 13 2026 00:32 Jankisa wrote:On March 13 2026 00:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 12 2026 05:39 Jankisa wrote:On March 12 2026 05:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 12 2026 04:48 Jankisa wrote:On March 12 2026 04:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's not just from your post. Look around. They are pretty openly doing/rationalizing the Niemöller quote unironically.
[quote] I wasn't here for all of it, but it's my impression that you have been shadow boxing Democrats and focusing on shitting on them while an actual Fascist takeover was happening in your country. + Show Spoiler +
You, and the people doing aggressive purity testing on anyone who isn't ready to extradite Nethyanahu to Hague are way more conductive to rise of Fascism then pragmatists.
I am of firm belief that purity testing and general smugness when it comes to politics and understanding how a majority of people function is the reason why there are 0 successful leftist parties governing any country for more then one term.
You can, of course, and I bet you will continue doing your "scratch a liberal" routine until you are blue in the face, if we ever get out of this mess it's going to be because of people willing to swallow their principles on some things not folks like you. Not quite. After being disillusioned by Obama's (who I also vociferously campaigned for) handling of the banks and drone strikes where 9 out of 10 people killed weren't the targets. I tried like hell (like really, knocking doors, phonebanking, voter registration, etc. by the thousands) to convince Democrats to nominate Bernie Sanders. I have felt like that was the last meaningful opportunity for Democrats as a party to be able to functionally stop the specific fascist (but also the tendency generally) that went on to beat their preferred candidate (the same candidate that intentionally elevated said fascist to lead Republicans) ever since. I have rarely wanted to be wrong more in my life only to constantly have my concerns validated at every turn. + Show Spoiler +
OK, so, I was, just like you, disillusioned by Obama, I bought the "hope and change" shtick and honestly thought that he might be a revolutionary leader for USA.
Then years went by. I saw that USA is a country that can elect Trump. The more time passed by the more I begun realizing that USA is a very broken country and that Obama's terms were basically a miracle.
Look at how many times it was brought up that he actually tried to deal with Iran and Cuba in a pragmatic way. Gradually, hearts and minds, compromises.
Obama's foreign policy gets a lot of shit, as it should, but his biggest failure, the reaction to Russian seizing of Crimea was something that was shared with allies, since Europeans were not alarmed he went with their vibes, I think all of them were week cowards for that, but I can understand it.
On Syria, similarly, Obama tried to actually listen to the public and ask Congress, he fucked up with the red line but his intentions were good.
With healthcare, again, he fucked up and listened to moderates and corporatists telling him doing anything more then he did was impossible, even then, his policies including ACA did a lot of good for a lot of people.
Being a head of USA is a hard job, Obama was not perfect, I'm sure that some of the things I interpret as fuckups were deliberate calculations of a politician with interests other then my own, still, compared to every other president in the last 40 years he was fucking amazing.
I would kill for another Obama, asking for more is just not being practical when you see where the USA is today, I don't get how you don't understand that. No you wouldn't. Otherwise, I'm sure you can find people willing to sponsor your travel lol. It's not that I don't understand your thinking about practicality. This typical "white moderate" Niemöllerism masked as "practicality" neglects the fact that all of the best science says your idea of "practical" leads to us all to certain doom. On March 12 2026 06:35 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2026 05:39 Jankisa wrote:
I would kill for another Obama, asking for more is just not being practical when you see where the USA is today, I don't get how you don't understand that. Because GH doesn't accept that the USA is deeply deeply conservative. Not nearly as much as people think, and we're making progress, despite those like yourselves that have fought us every step of the way.
The latest Fox News survey, released Thursday, finds a record 38% think it would be a good thing for the United States to move away from capitalism and in the direction of socialism — up from 32% in 2022, the last time the question was asked. In 2010, a low of 18% backed socialism
. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-socialism-gaining-ground-among-votersThe reality is that white men (and to a lesser degree women) are the voters fucking it up for the rest of humanity The task before us is to make socialism more real in our lives, not convince potential socialists to fall in line with the status quo which promises them certain doom. I honestly find it hilarious that you are referencing "science" in order to defend your completely pie in the sky approach to USA politics. What science is it? Das Kapital? Perhaps the works of Chomsky, who field tested his manufacturing consent techniques with his pal Epstein. As an European and as compared to Trump I long for Obama, fuck man, even Biden was amazing to compared to this, so I find it very rich that you think that "no I wouldn't". + Show Spoiler +I think your main problem is that you don't have the ability to understand that people with different opinions and views on the world that might be right exist, it makes you very obnoxious to deal with. You a climate denier too now? You literally wouldn't. "Manufacturing Consent" had some valuable insights, but I'm not really a fan of Chomsky. I come to socialism through the Black radical tradition (something seemingly no one here has any familiarity with beyond what I've explained). EDIT: I remember Mohdoo has read some Cedric Robinson and been better for it though. It's hard to understand you + Show Spoiler + when you are trying to be as pretentious as possible.
Since you seem to be extra delusional, here are some milestones on climate change fight:
Beneficial Climate Policies of the last 20 years:
Inflation Reduction Act - Biden
Ratification of the Kigali Amendment - Obama
Signing the Paris Agreement - Obama
Clean Power Plan - Obama
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act - Obama
Detrimental Climate Policies of the last 20 years:
Repeal of the EPA Endangerment Finding - Trump
2 x Withdrawal from the Paris Agreement - Trump
Rescission of Methane Pollution Standards - Trump
Rescission of NEPA Climate Review Regulations - Trump
Repeal of the Clean Power Plan - Trump
Great gotcha there, you are very smart! I think it is a skill issue. You'd probably have better luck copy pasting it into an AI and having it explain it to you. Great deflection buddy, really shows how smart you are! You throw out a stupid example, gets told that it's stupid, with receipts and then you throw a temper tantrum because only AI can make a list of policies, right? + Show Spoiler +People voted for Biden, more people then ever, actually.
Then, Biden and Harris got panned and attacked for their "progressiveness", they got attacked by both right and left (this is where you and the rest of your ilk comes in) on everything else, the voter turnout was depressed and Trump won with a much larger margin then before.
I personally don't think the biggest reasons have anything to do with their progressiveness or lack of it, as stated many times, but it sure as fuck isn't because 90 million socialists stayed home because Kamala wasn't pure enough.
The only person in this thread, including both "centrists", normal progressives, leftists and right wingers who thinks that USA has a deep pool of untapped socialists is you. There is no one else, there is no polling, there are no political results, there is nothing, yet you refuse to live in reality.
You are just as delusional and lying to yourself and others as oBlade, and you are also getting triggered when shown who full of shit you are, just like oBlade.
Horseshoe theory in practice.
Also, occasionally it hits me how fucking funny it is that you (used to before tucking your tail and running away) used to stan for Russia against Ukraine, the most openly fascist country in the modern world, while you are trying to sell yourself as a progressive here.
Tankies man, brain rot is real.
I'm talking about reading comprehension and how (apparently) a lack of it is impeding your (and Light, Gors, etc) ability to follow/make a coherent argument in response to what I'm saying. Instead you make strawmen like "90 million socialists stayed home because Kamala wasn't pure enough" and "only AI can make a list of policies, right?" to triumphantly defeat and self-soothe.
I was saying that you copy pasting my post (and now our responses) into an AI would likely help you understand why your responses are nonsensical/silly/oblivious because it is not emotionally wrapped up in this discussion and could more easily articulate the logic presented.
Unfortunately, brainrot is OP and you didn't/don't understand that. It's basically a "weather vs climate" discussion with you guys talking about the weather while I'm talking about the climate. The potential overlap would be in non-reformist reforms
I'm still hoping we could all at least agree on us all being better off if Democrats took their rightful place as the far-right edge of sanity in US 2-party politics?
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I find it hilarious that you think that I need AI to reply to your drivel, but you do you buddy.
Anyhow, I think that there is something with your analogy, weather vs climate.
So if you are the guy worried about the climate, and we are the people worried about the weather, you are the guy lecturing us how stupid we are for not looking at the climate all the while we are trying to board up the house and get the family to the tornado shelter.
No one cares about the climate during a storm, when shit is bad, you deal with things one thing at the time, we can worry about the climate when it's nice and sunny, when we are literally drowning in fucking fascism it's prudent on trying to find pragmatic ways to get out of it.
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On March 13 2026 04:48 JimmyJRaynor wrote:it appears Israel's Iron Dome is failing with only a 50% success rate lately. There is only 1 solution... take over half of Lebanon. ok guys, can you be a little less transparent? https://x.com/AmitSegal/status/2031813081190310267Show nested quote +What needs to be done in Lebanon is very simple:
advance to the Litani River, and announce: we will not leave until Hezbollah is disarmed.
But this time, unlike that old security zone, not a single resident returns.
And at the same time, a severe and devastating strike on Dahieh.
What they are saying is pretty damn bad. Not sure why you need to make up a further conspiracy about it. Oh ya, that’s what you do.
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On March 13 2026 05:25 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 04:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 13 2026 01:38 Jankisa wrote:On March 13 2026 01:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 13 2026 01:00 LightSpectra wrote:On March 13 2026 00:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
The reality is that white men (and to a lesser degree women) are the voters fucking it up for the rest of humanity >98% of voters of all races in the United States vote for Democrats or Republicans. How curious to say this when believing in uniparty imperialism, since Democrats would win everything if white men and most white women vanished overnight, who according to you are either just as bad or negligibly better. over 90,000,000 people didn't vote for either of them because the majority of the country finds both of them unfavorable but have been convinced they have no alternative. I think we all would actually agree that we'd be far better off if Democrats took their rightful place as the far-right edge of arguably sane party politics in the US. On March 13 2026 01:08 Jankisa wrote:On March 13 2026 00:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 13 2026 00:32 Jankisa wrote:On March 13 2026 00:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 12 2026 05:39 Jankisa wrote:On March 12 2026 05:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]Not quite.
After being disillusioned by Obama's (who I also vociferously campaigned for) handling of the banks and drone strikes where 9 out of 10 people killed weren't the targets. I tried like hell (like really, knocking doors, phonebanking, voter registration, etc. by the thousands) to convince Democrats to nominate Bernie Sanders. I have felt like that was the last meaningful opportunity for Democrats as a party to be able to functionally stop the specific fascist (but also the tendency generally) that went on to beat their preferred candidate (the same candidate that intentionally elevated said fascist to lead Republicans) ever since.
I have rarely wanted to be wrong more in my life only to constantly have my concerns validated at every turn. + Show Spoiler +
OK, so, I was, just like you, disillusioned by Obama, I bought the "hope and change" shtick and honestly thought that he might be a revolutionary leader for USA.
Then years went by. I saw that USA is a country that can elect Trump. The more time passed by the more I begun realizing that USA is a very broken country and that Obama's terms were basically a miracle.
Look at how many times it was brought up that he actually tried to deal with Iran and Cuba in a pragmatic way. Gradually, hearts and minds, compromises.
Obama's foreign policy gets a lot of shit, as it should, but his biggest failure, the reaction to Russian seizing of Crimea was something that was shared with allies, since Europeans were not alarmed he went with their vibes, I think all of them were week cowards for that, but I can understand it.
On Syria, similarly, Obama tried to actually listen to the public and ask Congress, he fucked up with the red line but his intentions were good.
With healthcare, again, he fucked up and listened to moderates and corporatists telling him doing anything more then he did was impossible, even then, his policies including ACA did a lot of good for a lot of people.
Being a head of USA is a hard job, Obama was not perfect, I'm sure that some of the things I interpret as fuckups were deliberate calculations of a politician with interests other then my own, still, compared to every other president in the last 40 years he was fucking amazing.
I would kill for another Obama, asking for more is just not being practical when you see where the USA is today, I don't get how you don't understand that. No you wouldn't. Otherwise, I'm sure you can find people willing to sponsor your travel lol. It's not that I don't understand your thinking about practicality. This typical "white moderate" Niemöllerism masked as "practicality" neglects the fact that all of the best science says your idea of "practical" leads to us all to certain doom. On March 12 2026 06:35 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2026 05:39 Jankisa wrote:
I would kill for another Obama, asking for more is just not being practical when you see where the USA is today, I don't get how you don't understand that. Because GH doesn't accept that the USA is deeply deeply conservative. Not nearly as much as people think, and we're making progress, despite those like yourselves that have fought us every step of the way.
The latest Fox News survey, released Thursday, finds a record 38% think it would be a good thing for the United States to move away from capitalism and in the direction of socialism — up from 32% in 2022, the last time the question was asked. In 2010, a low of 18% backed socialism
. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-socialism-gaining-ground-among-votersThe reality is that white men (and to a lesser degree women) are the voters fucking it up for the rest of humanity The task before us is to make socialism more real in our lives, not convince potential socialists to fall in line with the status quo which promises them certain doom. I honestly find it hilarious that you are referencing "science" in order to defend your completely pie in the sky approach to USA politics. What science is it? Das Kapital? Perhaps the works of Chomsky, who field tested his manufacturing consent techniques with his pal Epstein. As an European and as compared to Trump I long for Obama, fuck man, even Biden was amazing to compared to this, so I find it very rich that you think that "no I wouldn't". + Show Spoiler +I think your main problem is that you don't have the ability to understand that people with different opinions and views on the world that might be right exist, it makes you very obnoxious to deal with. You a climate denier too now? You literally wouldn't. "Manufacturing Consent" had some valuable insights, but I'm not really a fan of Chomsky. I come to socialism through the Black radical tradition (something seemingly no one here has any familiarity with beyond what I've explained). EDIT: I remember Mohdoo has read some Cedric Robinson and been better for it though. It's hard to understand you + Show Spoiler + when you are trying to be as pretentious as possible.
Since you seem to be extra delusional, here are some milestones on climate change fight:
Beneficial Climate Policies of the last 20 years:
Inflation Reduction Act - Biden
Ratification of the Kigali Amendment - Obama
Signing the Paris Agreement - Obama
Clean Power Plan - Obama
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act - Obama
Detrimental Climate Policies of the last 20 years:
Repeal of the EPA Endangerment Finding - Trump
2 x Withdrawal from the Paris Agreement - Trump
Rescission of Methane Pollution Standards - Trump
Rescission of NEPA Climate Review Regulations - Trump
Repeal of the Clean Power Plan - Trump
Great gotcha there, you are very smart! I think it is a skill issue. You'd probably have better luck copy pasting it into an AI and having it explain it to you. Great deflection buddy, really shows how smart you are! You throw out a stupid example, gets told that it's stupid, with receipts and then you throw a temper tantrum because only AI can make a list of policies, right? + Show Spoiler +People voted for Biden, more people then ever, actually.
Then, Biden and Harris got panned and attacked for their "progressiveness", they got attacked by both right and left (this is where you and the rest of your ilk comes in) on everything else, the voter turnout was depressed and Trump won with a much larger margin then before.
I personally don't think the biggest reasons have anything to do with their progressiveness or lack of it, as stated many times, but it sure as fuck isn't because 90 million socialists stayed home because Kamala wasn't pure enough.
The only person in this thread, including both "centrists", normal progressives, leftists and right wingers who thinks that USA has a deep pool of untapped socialists is you. There is no one else, there is no polling, there are no political results, there is nothing, yet you refuse to live in reality.
You are just as delusional and lying to yourself and others as oBlade, and you are also getting triggered when shown who full of shit you are, just like oBlade.
Horseshoe theory in practice.
Also, occasionally it hits me how fucking funny it is that you (used to before tucking your tail and running away) used to stan for Russia against Ukraine, the most openly fascist country in the modern world, while you are trying to sell yourself as a progressive here.
Tankies man, brain rot is real. I'm talking about reading comprehension and how (apparently) a lack of it is impeding your (and Light, Gors, etc) ability to follow/make a coherent argument in response to what I'm saying. Instead you make strawmen like "90 million socialists stayed home because Kamala wasn't pure enough" and "only AI can make a list of policies, right?" to triumphantly defeat and self-soothe. I was saying that you copy pasting my post (and now our responses) into an AI would likely help you understand why your responses are nonsensical/silly/oblivious because it is not emotionally wrapped up in this discussion and could more easily articulate the logic presented. Unfortunately, brainrot is OP and you didn't/don't understand that. It's basically a "weather vs climate" discussion with you guys talking about the weather while I'm talking about the climate. The potential overlap would be in non-reformist reforms I'm still hoping we could all at least agree on us all being better off if Democrats took their rightful place as the far-right edge of sanity in US 2-party politics? I find it hilarious that you think that I need AI to reply to your drivel, but you do you buddy. Anyhow, I think that there is something with your analogy, weather vs climate. So if you are the guy worried about the climate, and we are the people worried about the weather, you are the guy lecturing us how stupid we are for not looking at the climate all the while we are trying to board up the house and get the family to the tornado shelter. No one cares about the climate during a storm, when shit is bad, you deal with things one thing at the time, we can worry about the climate when it's nice and sunny, when we are literally drowning in fucking fascism it's prudent on trying to find pragmatic ways to get out of it.
I don't think you should need it, but I can definitely see how it could help you integrate the BRT context into your analysis without me having to write a treatise or you having to read several books.
Basically, part of what I'm pointing out is that there are already people drowning and dying no matter how well you board up the house (in part because it's full of "white club" members and built on their exploitation as a foundation) and you're effectively irrefutably Niemöllering those people.
Another part is that the "storm" isn't attacking the system, it is/is a product of the system.
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Oh, and by the way.
USAF just lost flying tanker over Iraq.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1288 Posts
On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years.
Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this.
This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now.
In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for.
I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it.
Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president.
But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it.
No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office.
Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best.
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United States43987 Posts
On March 13 2026 07:17 hitthat wrote:
Oh, and by the way.
USAF just lost flying tanker over Iraq.
Crashed into another of their planes. The tanker was likely lost with all crew, other plane landed safely.
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On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best.
I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest.
One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits.
It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization.
China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc.
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On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc.
How is it acting out of self interest NOW if it wasn't BEFORE? Are you under the impression that the US was altruistic prior to Trump and Trump put a stop to all that giving stuff away for free?
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Trump hasn't done a goddamn single thing in the United States' interests, just the interests of his megadonors.
Nobody is shocked when the USA does selfish things, the international shock is at the fact that Americans are letting open corruption and willful ignorance shoot ourselves in the face.
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Northern Ireland26785 Posts
On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc.
No, we’re confused why the US is posturing and behaving in such a manner that actively harms its own self-interest in the medium and long-term, while being annoying to us also.
If of the two increasingly hegemonic powers, both are arseholes why wouldn’t Europe cultivate closer links to China?
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1288 Posts
On March 13 2026 09:53 LightSpectra wrote:
Trump hasn't done a goddamn single thing in the United States' interests, just the interests of his megadonors.
Nobody is shocked when the USA does selfish things, the international shock is at the fact that Americans are letting open corruption and willful ignorance shoot ourselves in the face.
As an international person. I must say, while your internal Fascism and corruption problem maybe... not so much shocking as uncomfortable to watch. (I may not be representative in that I don't find it shocking, not sure here)
I assure you, and I'm confident I'm more representative here, our attention is far less on the US shooting itself in the face, and far more on when it threatens to, or actually does, sometimes literally, shoot other members of the international community in the face.
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On March 13 2026 09:41 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc. How is it acting out of self interest NOW if it wasn't BEFORE? Are you under the impression that the US was altruistic prior to Trump and Trump put a stop to all that giving stuff away for free?
I wasn't, plenty certainly did.
Else why are there so many crying about cutting in fundings to other nations, aids and whatnot?
the US was sending 50billions per year of aids to Africa in 2024. Do you think it was altruistic or achieved whatever self interest goal it had?
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On March 13 2026 10:08 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc. No, we’re confused why the US is posturing and behaving in such a manner that actively harms its own self-interest in the medium and long-term, while being annoying to us also. If of the two increasingly hegemonic powers, both are arseholes why wouldn’t Europe cultivate closer links to China?
I fail to see how China, which literally fund Russia invading Ukraine (existential crisis of Europe), profits off dumping products to the point it's killing local industries, are on par with the US putting tariffs.
That's on top of them funding Iran and North Korea and what not.
Is that not actively harms its own self-interest in short, medium and long term?
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On March 13 2026 11:40 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 09:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc. How is it acting out of self interest NOW if it wasn't BEFORE? Are you under the impression that the US was altruistic prior to Trump and Trump put a stop to all that giving stuff away for free? I wasn't, plenty certainly did. Else why are there so many crying about cutting in fundings to other nations, aids and whatnot? the US was sending 50billions per year of aids to Africa in 2024. Do you think it was altruistic or achieved whatever self interest goal it had?
Source(s)?
Googling suggests US's total yearly foreign aid totals around that number. USAID's budget was around 25b. Are you sourcing an amalgam of US citizen/corporation's donations to charities that are in support of africa or something?
Nobody in Canada making a business deal with the US was like "Wow I'm glad the US is so altruistic as to make this deal" because that's stupid. They make deals in self interest, Trump claimed a lot of those deals were bad for the US and tried to remake some of them with a different calculation. It isn't that the US was altruistic before and acting in self interest now, it's that their calculus for self-interest is being run by a moron who genuinely has more self-interest than he does United-States-Interest.
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On March 13 2026 10:08 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 09:53 LightSpectra wrote:
Trump hasn't done a goddamn single thing in the United States' interests, just the interests of his megadonors.
Nobody is shocked when the USA does selfish things, the international shock is at the fact that Americans are letting open corruption and willful ignorance shoot ourselves in the face. As an international person. I must say, while your internal Fascism and corruption problem maybe... not so much shocking as uncomfortable to watch. (I may not be representative in that I don't find it shocking, not sure here) I assure you, and I'm confident I'm more representative here, our attention is far less on the US shooting itself in the face, and far more on when it threatens to, or actually does, sometimes literally, shoot other members of the international community in the face.
On a scale measuring fascism, Australia and Europe are pretty up there.
Way tougher internet speech control, rise of far right like One Nation.
Germany is actively targeting AFD to get it off political stage, EU targeting chat encryption.
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On March 13 2026 11:54 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 11:40 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 09:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc. How is it acting out of self interest NOW if it wasn't BEFORE? Are you under the impression that the US was altruistic prior to Trump and Trump put a stop to all that giving stuff away for free? I wasn't, plenty certainly did. Else why are there so many crying about cutting in fundings to other nations, aids and whatnot? the US was sending 50billions per year of aids to Africa in 2024. Do you think it was altruistic or achieved whatever self interest goal it had? Source(s)? Googling suggests US's total yearly foreign aid totals around that number. USAID's budget was around 25b. Are you sourcing an amalgam of US citizen/corporation's donations to charities that are in support of africa or something?
You can halve that amount, and the question still applies. Do you think it was altruistic or achieved whatever self interest goal it had?
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On March 13 2026 11:56 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 11:54 Fleetfeet wrote:On March 13 2026 11:40 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 09:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc. How is it acting out of self interest NOW if it wasn't BEFORE? Are you under the impression that the US was altruistic prior to Trump and Trump put a stop to all that giving stuff away for free? I wasn't, plenty certainly did. Else why are there so many crying about cutting in fundings to other nations, aids and whatnot? the US was sending 50billions per year of aids to Africa in 2024. Do you think it was altruistic or achieved whatever self interest goal it had? Source(s)? Googling suggests US's total yearly foreign aid totals around that number. USAID's budget was around 25b. Are you sourcing an amalgam of US citizen/corporation's donations to charities that are in support of africa or something? You can halve that amount, and the question still applies. Do you think it was altruistic or achieved whatever self interest goal it had?
Yeah a bunch of corporations got tax cuts and not-for-profit charities kept functioning and kept people employed.
It isn't a hypothetical you're asking about. You're stating (I assume) that the US government gave 25-50b in aid to Africa in 2024, and asking me if I think that was in self-interest, or altruistic.
I'm saying "They did?" and you're trying to gloss over that and say the question still applies.
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On March 13 2026 11:46 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2026 10:08 WombaT wrote:On March 13 2026 09:20 ETisME wrote:On March 13 2026 07:29 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 23:20 Billyboy wrote:On March 12 2026 21:43 Harris1st wrote:On March 12 2026 17:22 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On March 12 2026 04:50 Vivax wrote:
Nobody‘s recovering from this stuff both sides of the atlantic.
As soon as somebody clearly puts ambition over pacts for personal gain and tramples over ‚allies’ in name only, it takes ages to repair that trust.
Dude went all-in as soon as he began threatening Canada and Denmark. That was like the bell of doom. If they can do anything, they‘ll just do anything because they can. Frankly, the breakdown of that trust of the US is the best thing to come out of this whole thing. I'm quite frankly a little miffed the US hasn't threatened/belittled/antagonized us (Australia) more other than some tariifs. My worry is that when Trump is gone, we are going to try and go back to the old status quo of being a defacto US vassal, rather than try to bargain our strategic position against the US like we should have all along (especially with the Murdoch media constantly trying to vomit American politics directly into our media environment). Frankly, other Western countries would benefit from having a more Machiavellian attitude towards their relationship with the US too. In Germany it's slowly shifting from funny to annoying to outright hatred of the US. So yes, I am all for decoupling from the US. If possible for forever This is the part that the non MAGA republicans do not understand. His insanity is fucking their country long term. I work with, both in my company and customer, like 100% conservatives. They have mostly all turned away from him. With the new war and oil prices being the last straw. And it’s almost like an awakening. So many of them are very devout Christian’s and it’s like they are just seeing the complete lack of morality now too. I get it’s easier for Canadians but I think it will happen more and more. But that full level of trust won’t return. Countries are going to buy arms from more than just the US. Our official strategy now involves buying and selling to as many countries as possible. Many snowbirds (old people who travel south for the winter and there is 100,000’s) are looking elsewhere and finding it cheaper and just as safe, they are not coming back. Even if the US regains a reasonable path the Donald has hurt the US for at least 50 years. Not to be a MAGA defender, but this isn't really a Trump issue. I don't feel that differently about the US (or see it that differently), than what it was like for the proceeding decades. Canadians and Greenlanders might disagree, at least they weren't threatening to annex you prior to this. This is just a less polished, less competent, more honest (ironically...) version of what the US body politics has been for at least the last several decades now. In some ways, Trump is in fact the most representative American. Not in the sense that is representative of what they are like individually as people, but he is an accurate representation of how they've behaved as a nation. That being confidently (oh so confidently) wrong about things then blaming anyone else for taking advantage of them even as they sit literally in the middle of a global order set up to benefit them. And ruthlessly pursuing their geo-political interests while moralising to everyone else about why what they are doing is good for democracy/human rights/rules based order. Even as they do pretty much the same things (worse even, if only due to their capability for scale and ability to shrug off consequences) that they criticise their geo-political rivals for. I don't see this as Trump hurting the US for the forseeable future (though I guess that's also true, marketing matters). So much as the US allies and affiliates making rational corrections on their rather abusive relation with the US, that has certainly not just appeared recently, merely had a light shown on it. Hopefully, this is seen as a mask-off moment for the US rather than just an abberation of this particular administration/political moment/president. But the familiar is very appealing, and I'm afraid many people in the west might want to return to how it was before Trump. Memory is a funny thing, and if there is a desire to remember this political moment as being just an anomoly rather than a peek at how the US really is, then that might just be how people will remember it. No doubt, the Murdoch media in Australia will try to spin it that way, and they have a lot of power over our attention economy here, and always been very pro-US. I for one, would feel a lot better if public sentiment soured past the point of salvaging before Trump leaves office. Again, for Americans here, don't take this as an attack on how you, or even your compatriots are personally. I understand the behaviour of individual inhabitants of a country is a completely diffrerent thing from how your entire country acts as a nation-state. But as a nation-state, you've had this coming for a while. I still wish you all individually all the best. I think majority of Europeans/Canadians/Australians are stuck at stage 1, being shocked at the US acting out of self interest. One day they will get to stage 2, understanding that a nation acting out of self-interest doesn't imply there isn't mutual benefits. It's definitely worthy of a chapter in history text book, not just on Trump policies, but the awkward transition when Canada and UK wanting to work closer with China because they are at stage 1 of realization. China, a country with allies like NK, Russia and Iran etc. No, we’re confused why the US is posturing and behaving in such a manner that actively harms its own self-interest in the medium and long-term, while being annoying to us also. If of the two increasingly hegemonic powers, both are arseholes why wouldn’t Europe cultivate closer links to China? I fail to see how China, which literally fund Russia invading Ukraine (existential crisis of Europe), profits off dumping products to the point it's killing local industries, are on par with the US putting tariffs. That's on top of them funding Iran and North Korea and what not. Is that not actively harms its own self-interest in short, medium and long term?
Leverage is pretty important. As is reducing concentration risk. It is also basically a return to what our trade with China was before they got mad at us for arresting a Chinese national at the Americans request.
You see we were such a good ally and partner of the US, we negatively impacted our own economy to support them. In return the ignorant man Abby threw a tantrum because he doesn’t understand basic economics like trade deficits. It was very pragmatic to become less reliant on a non trust worthy actor. And we didn’t replace the US with China. We replaced a small part of the trade we lost with the US with the UK, China, India and a bunch of other nations. It was a pragmatic choice when dealing with an unpredictable buffoon. And a pretty moronic voter base that trusts influencers that are actively peddling them products over doctors and so on.
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EPT
