EPTAs if what that person was doing, outside of being a clear, immediate and lethal threat, was relevant.
That country is so fucked.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5466
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Biff The Understudy
France7992 Posts
As if what that person was doing, outside of being a clear, immediate and lethal threat, was relevant. That country is so fucked. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5059 Posts
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Hat Trick of Today
195 Posts
All of this is the weirdest sort of subservience because these supporters are getting jack shit out of ICE jackbooting Minnesota (and the country really) unless they’re a board member on Palantir or something. It’s peasant brained behaviour. They should’ve jackbooting Texas and California well before Minnesota if it was really about immigration but they’re evidently not doing anything to the same degree. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20154 Posts
On January 26 2026 16:04 dyhb wrote: When I write two posts on why there isn't a defense for the ICE shooting, from what I can see on the video, it's pretty trollish and idiotic to open your post "the defense keeps hinging." An ICE officer shot one Alex Pretti, but the man not defending the shooting is "the defense." Come again? Here you go tilting after windmills. I already condemned the shooting, so don't try to tell me that I'm only in it to dig up dirt on the victim to justify his death. By all means, argue that the officers displayed excessive force in effecting a detention and potential arrest. I was alleging that you knowingly conflated the lawful ways to protest ICE actions and when those actions violate federal law. You can change your mind and 100% agree with me and still also think that ICE shouldn't have pushed or pepper-sprayed. I'm a little more confident than you are that Americans know protesting in a public place doesn't include finding ICE vehicles and blowing a whistle in their face while in the middle of a street. You're very confidently wrong, because neither identifying ice cars nor blowing whistles constitutes obstruction by the definition of the statute they are detaining people under. (1) forcibly assaults, resists, opposes, impedes, intimidates, or interferes with any person designated in section 1114 of this title while engaged in or on account of the performance of official duties; or (2) forcibly assaults or intimidates any person who formerly served as a person designated in section 1114 on account of the performance of official duties during such person's term of service, Unless ICE is forcibly intimidated by whistles, but I guess they are a bunch of untrained cowards so that might actually be true. | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
195 Posts
Again, it’s peasant brained behaviour where peasants just ask “milord please give me a pay rise and don’t beat me down I beg of you, I won’t do anything that inconveniences you” in the face of injustice being done on a wide scale. It’s exactly why Christian is saying that this is just a defense of law enforcement brutality because it’s still trying to justify law enforcement brutality and immorality despite some mealy mouthed condemnation of someone getting shot dead in cold blood by said law enforcement. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11774 Posts
On January 26 2026 17:22 Biff The Understudy wrote: I love that you guys are at a point where a federal officer coldly executing an unthreatening man in the street is a subject of debate. As if what that person was doing, outside of being a clear, immediate and lethal threat, was relevant. That country is so fucked. Exactly. Even if that man were the most criminal of criminals, then the job of law enforcement still wouldn't be to execute him. It would be to arrest him and put him in court. Lawful countries don't kill people on the streets for being criminals. I agree that the whole way the US deals with these events is scary. It is always tribalism, and people are willing to turn 180° on any of their proclaimed principles purely based on who is on what side. There is zero deeper thought than "Our side is always right" | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8725 Posts
Steven Nekhaila, the chair of the Libertarian National Committee, was unequivocal in the wake of a Border Patrol agent fatally shooting an American citizen in Minneapolis: Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) should be abolished, he said. In a lengthy statement the Libertarian Party posted Saturday to the social platform X, Nekhaila said ICE “was created in a national security context, blending immigration enforcement with counterterrorism culture, equipment, and mindset.” “Do not be fooled,” he added. “Every justification for state violence will be depersonalized, amplified, and systematized until it is a permanent feature of governance.” “Abolish ICE. Reform the broken immigration system. Do not give the police state an inch.” A memo signed by acting ICE Director Todd Lyons last year and obtained by The Associated Press earlier this week also authorized agency personnel to enter homes and arrest migrants without a judicial warrant, if they have a signed administrative warrant and a final order of removal issued by a judge. The Fourth Amendment, though, protects individuals against “unreasonable searches and seizures” and requires authorities to obtain a warrant with probable cause to justify a search. Nekhaila cited that memo Saturday, saying ICE is justifying its officers’ ability to enter homes without a judicial warrant via “an assertion by fiat, not a principle recognized by the Constitution, statute, or the courts.” better late than never I guess... though to be honest for libertarian minded people way too late to remember what their job is. it has been a year of things going stupidly wrong at an alarming rate. let's grow that tent to wipe out the scourge of Trumpism! | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5059 Posts
Also, I'd like to add even though the mass video capture with phone strategy is hardly protection, but more like a safe distance approach. Whem people start to be more willing to physically put themselves in between the agents, the powder keg has been lit. And that type of escalation might become very bloody very quickly. Let's hope they get to oppose ICE in a more peaceful, effective way, but I doubt it. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1125 Posts
Trump and Goons don't like or honor "american values". They want to use the system that is already super rigged for the generational wealthy people, and fully turn it into an oligarchy with a ruling class that doesn not need to answer to voters or courts or any oversight. They want to abolish social mobility. They don't believe in innovation, they outright fear new technology or social developements that would "reshuffle the deck". Trump had boats bombed, 80 soldiers killed, and a president kidnapped... because he wanted to be handed a 2nd hand Nobel Peace Prize. That's insanity. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10139 Posts
On January 26 2026 07:43 dyhb wrote: To put it in your words, I wrote the rest because other people in the thread added drivel that was wrong and ignorant. If they had kept to just what's contained in that sentence, there would be no point in posting. Thank you for your contribution. It’s honestly impressive. My argument is not that this is a “complex issue” worth pages of debate. It’s the exact opposite: there is no debate. Executing a disarmed civilian is indefensible. Period. That’s the beginning and the end of the moral analysis. If people had stuck to that very basic conclusion, there would have been no need for anything beyond it. Unfortunately, others felt the need to add excuses, imaginary justifications, and various forms of ignorance, hence why the post got more words than necessary, and the fact that you felt compelled to continue it does not speak well of you. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5059 Posts
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oBlade
United States5936 Posts
On January 26 2026 17:44 Hat Trick of Today wrote: Even if they are intimidated, it’s irrelevant because the whole point of that argument isn’t that ICE was threatened or not but that protests must be completely conveniently out of the way of the people the are protesting and therefore be completely ignorable. There isn't a protection on protesting per se. Protesting can be a protected act, or it can be not protected. Speech is protected, and assembly is protected. But for example shooting a health insurance CEO is not protected speech just because it also sends a message. One can't just go fuck around in someone's church because they are "protesting." Like if you swarm a street without a permit that can turn into unlawful assembly, go home, tear gas. The government might be nice if it's not protected but someone thinks it's worth it, or the government might be lazy, or the government might let it slide, or the government might think enforcing the unprotectedness of a riot might make something worse. Do people "ignore" million-man marches? If so, must be a pretty weak idea. If you can't get a million-man march, again must be a pretty weak idea. But oBlade, didn't the US protest against Britain to begin with? The US won is the difference. Otherwise people ignore losers. And nobody is going to beat the federal government. So what can people not ignore? Dead bodies. So protest vicariously through martyrs, telling people to "fight back" "peacefully" which means someone sits peacefully at home while egging others to fight back by either winning a room temperature challenge, or being someone like Joshua Jahn who took shots at ICE and only managed to shoot 3 immigrants, killing one. It's sick. On January 26 2026 17:39 Hat Trick of Today wrote: Even hiding in your holes isn’t good enough for them, ICE smashing down your front door and dragging you out or using children to manipulate you out of your homes is perfectly fine so long they meet their quotas. And if they did something wrong, doesn’t really matter too much because mistakes will be made and some eggs have to be cracked to make an omelette. What some eggs? Every single egg that goes into the omelette has to be cracked. The problem with eggs is not that they have to be cracked. Their destiny is to be cracked. The problem is in the process of cracking them, if you mess up, you get shell in the omelette. The solution is simple. It's to get better at cracking eggs. Not abandon the whole idea of breakfast entirely. Here's some well-fried eggs: Jaime Tirado-Hernandez - illegal immigrant, homicide, MN Meng Vang - illegal immigrant, assault, agg assault, MN Gerardo Sanchez-Acuna - drug trafficker, same Phuc Trong Nguyen - rape, same Abdulkadir Sharif Abdi - car theft ring, same Carlos Antonio Flores-Miguel - rape, robbery, MS-13, same Are these neighbors? Why are Minnesota's leaders not saying "Let's work together to expedite getting these people, and in turn we will tell our police to keep the agitators at bay?" On January 26 2026 17:39 Hat Trick of Today wrote: All of this is the weirdest sort of subservience because these supporters are getting jack shit out of ICE jackbooting Minnesota (and the country really) unless they’re a board member on Palantir or something. It’s peasant brained behaviour. They should’ve jackbooting Texas and California well before Minnesota if it was really about immigration but they’re evidently not doing anything to the same degree. This is incoherent. You say ICE is jackbooting Minnesota and the country. Then why aren't they jackbooting Texas and California, which are part of the country. Okay, explain to us why they aren't jackbooting conservative Texas and... conservative California? The reason is... (waiting) Here's probably the real reason they don't "jackboot" Texas. ICE wants somebody in Texas. They end up in a Texas jail being arrested or charged for god knows what. ICE issues a detainer request, which courts have ruled lets them hold for up to two days. ICE comes and picks up the person, taking them directly into custody without having to hunt for them with screaming leftists railing and blockading constantly. In Minnesota? Ever heard of German Adriano Llangari Inga? That's his name. He's not German. In August 2024 he drunk drove and killed a mother. ICE put a detainer request. He was picked up by Minnesota police. Minnesota jail let him go. It's not that they held him for 2 days but ICE was late. They let him go and never told ICE. In May, he was picked up again and in a Minnesota jail. The second jail also didn't tell ICE and let him go. Directly because of the local and state policies of open borders criminal empathy zones like Minneapolis and Minnesota. https://nypost.com/2025/05/21/us-news/minnesota-illegal-immigrant-german-adriano-llangari-inga-arrested-by-ice-suspected-in-killing-mother-victoria-eileen-harwell/ On January 26 2026 14:37 ChristianS wrote: AFAIK it is not a requirement of Minnesota law that bystanders obey any order given by a law enforcement officer, let alone ICE officer. The anti-commandeering doctrine prevents the federal government from telling state law enforcement what to do, but the reason Minnesota people have to obey federal LEO's orders is because they're in the country. It's like saying there's no Minnesota law that you have to pay the IRS. (If there is, excuse it for this example.) You don't have to pay the IRS because Minnesota says so, you have to pay them because the IRS says so. A citizen of a state is a citizen of the union, this is the whole point of the country. You can have an argument with a police officer and be right, but if you're in a fight with a police officer, you're almost always wrong. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5059 Posts
To get to the really good eggs, we need to break thousands of them and crack those that we know are already good, again, just to make sure they're just actually really good eggs. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1238 Posts
Then you have a whole state that clearly doesn't want them there and is trying to protest them taking away their friends and neighbors, in many cases people who have various statuses, including being full citizens and detaining them without proper cause or warrants, and these people coming out and (because of the insane policing that is only allowed in the USA and places like Russia and El Salvador) risking their lives in order to protect their communities by filming these fucks and standing in the streets while blowing whistles. That, according to our buddy here makes it OK for the fascist thugs to execute people and for the people in charge to make any investigation or repercussions for the perpetrators of this public execution impossible. Then he will go on to sprinkle in some of his patented racism, copy pasting various cherry picked crimes he found in his stormfront threads, then he digs up one guy where the DA fucked up and didn't file the case against the guy in a reasonable amount of time, there is absolutely no evidence that this is anything that is systemic or deliberate, it's a DA's office fucking up, that, however, in this ghouls fucked up head indicates that sending fascist thugs with guns to this community to inevitably kill citizens is A-OK. oBlade, why don't you apply? You are literate, which already distinguishes you above most of your future colleagues, you obviously have a bloodthirsty and hate anyone who is non white, and you have never had a bad word to say about the party or it's leader, so you wold fit right in! Come on buddy, you can finally live out your fantasies, maybe they even let you torture some brown folks in the prison camps, plus, there is a signing bonus. | ||
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oBlade
United States5936 Posts
On January 26 2026 22:20 Uldridge wrote: oBlade: To get to the really good eggs, we need to break thousands of them and crack those that we know are already good, again, just to make sure they're just actually really good eggs. Here are good eggs destroying the first floor of the Home2 Suites by Hilton and assaulting a federal agent. (These are not pacifist, kneeling pastors.) This is the difference. I can separate a peaceful protestor and a violent agitator. LightSpectra only sees the former. + Show Spoiler + Here is what they did to SUVs or vehicles outside that looked vaguely law-enforcement. + Show Spoiler + Jankisa went through great lengths to try to get me to say yes yes Capitol Police should definitely have shot the flagpole guy on January 6th. I said they could have. Here's a video of violent people attacking an ICE agent on the ground - will Jankisa be equally bloodthirsty in his assessment of the officers' potential to use lethal force in their reaction? + Show Spoiler + Turns out tragedies happen while police also let quite a lot slide. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10856 Posts
"Some dipshits shattered some windows, so it's ok to shoot a most likely totally unrelated person at another time at another place?" | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5059 Posts
Just comply, keep your head down. Perhaps you'll be untouched, but who knows, maybe you had a speeding ticket in the past! Just be a model citizen and they won't have a reason to detain and/or sentence you to death. Have fun - carefully - choosing your life choices. Be careful now. Remember, we're back to a strong society with strong men who make mean, strong choices! Don't make them make one of those choices in relation to your person, just behave! It'll be (maybe). The actions ICE are doing is causing widespread fear and uncertainty within people. Exactly what terrorism is supposed to do. Congrats, Introvert and oBlade, you're supporting a terorrist organisation. Pat yourselves on the back some more. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17329 Posts
On January 26 2026 22:56 Jankisa wrote: oBlade, why don't you apply? You are literate, which already distinguishes you above most of your future colleagues, you obviously have a bloodthirsty and hate anyone who is non white, and you have never had a bad word to say about the party or it's leader, so you wold fit right in! i am assuming you meant "a bloodthirsty hate for anyone who is non white". How do you come to that conclusion? Perhaps he has some 'own group bias' ... but many have that. "a bloodthirsty hate for anyone who is non white" is a stretch. I gotta say: it is pretty hilarious watching self-involved, narcissist, career-is-my-life white people who will never have even one child because it interferes with their path to "self actualization" .... whine about immigration.  | ||
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Simberto
Germany11774 Posts
On January 26 2026 23:05 Velr wrote: Just checking, is your argument really: "Some dipshits shattered some windows, so it's ok to shoot a most likely totally unrelated person at another time at another place?" In addition to how absurd that already is, it is important to add that in most civilized societies, breaking windows or rioting also doesn't get you shot by police. It gets you arrested and accused in a court of law. In German, this concept is called "Rechtsstaat", a state governed by the rule of law. Democracy theorists have been very clear that having a state be governed by the rule of law is important to prevent government overreaches and tyranny. This should be concepts the republicans love. Yet it somehow gets drowned out in tribalism. | ||
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oBlade
United States5936 Posts
On January 26 2026 23:05 Velr wrote: Just checking, is your argument really: "Some dipshits shattered some windows, so it's ok to shoot a most likely totally unrelated person at another time at another place?" You're going for the it's just a harmless victimless property crime, they have insurance, meme? You know those guys didn't just break windows? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_kSA1OXsAATn5b.jpg) This is the guy inside. That's his own blood. That's what police deal with. That's what every rioter and screaming medicated tiktok revolutionary makes police deal with more of. On January 26 2026 22:56 Jankisa wrote: I love how oBlade is pretending like the obvious motivation of going after blue states which voted against him and/or have politicians that at some point stood up to Trump (RIP Tim Waltz of before the elections) is not real, despite Trump himself making it clear that it is. Then you have a whole state that clearly doesn't want them there and is trying to protest them taking away their friends and neighbors, in many cases people who have various statuses, including being full citizens and detaining them without proper cause or warrants, and these people coming out and (because of the insane policing that is only allowed in the USA and places like Russia and El Salvador) risking their lives in order to protect their communities by filming these fucks and standing in the streets while blowing whistles. That, according to our buddy here makes it OK for the fascist thugs to execute people and for the people in charge to make any investigation or repercussions for the perpetrators of this public execution impossible. Then he will go on to sprinkle in some of his patented racism, copy pasting various cherry picked crimes he found in his stormfront threads, then he digs up one guy where the DA fucked up and didn't file the case against the guy in a reasonable amount of time, there is absolutely no evidence that this is anything that is systemic or deliberate, it's a DA's office fucking up, that, however, in this ghouls fucked up head indicates that sending fascist thugs with guns to this community to inevitably kill citizens is A-OK. Every one of those is an ICE apprehension. The state "not wanting" ICE there means it is harder to bring those people to justice. The state's "wants" having no bearing means they do eventually get apprehended anyway, but at greater cost and effort. You'll have to be less cryptic and specify which one was a DA mistake. I saw no such mentions, but I have an inkling you don't know what a DA's function is in the US, or that they also have latitude to be wildly lenient, especially DAs in the jurisdictions that are already deep blue and lenient on illegal immigration to begin with. So what you're describing here as a DA mistake may even be a deliberate part of the exact | ||
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