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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 506

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
July 19 2018 21:07 GMT
#10101
On July 20 2018 06:04 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 05:31 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Hence the reason why the Democrats are in a losing position every election as they are too corporate friendly. Tap into the rage that the poor working class feels and give them benefits of Health, and Education and you are in a political golden age aka FDR territory. Populism is on the rise, not Corporate PR.

+ Show Spoiler +
WICHITA, Kan. — Is the white working class an angry, backward monolith — some 90 million white Americans without college degrees, all standing around in factories and fields thumping their dirty hands with baseball bats? You might think so after two years of media fixation on this version of the aggrieved laborer: male, Caucasian, conservative, racist, sexist.

This account does white supremacy a great service in several ways: It ignores workers of color, along with humane, even progressive white workers. It allows college-educated white liberals to signal superior virtue while denying the sins of their own place and class. And it conceals well-informed, formally educated white conservatives — from middle-class suburbia to the highest ranks of influence — who voted for Donald Trump in legions.

The trouble begins with language: Elite pundits regularly misuse “working class” as shorthand for right-wing white guys wearing tool belts. My father, a white man and lifelong construction worker who labors alongside immigrants and people of color on job sites across the Midwest and South working for a Kansas-based general contractor owned by a woman, would never make such an error.

Most struggling whites I know live lives of quiet desperation mad at their white bosses, not resentment of their co-workers or neighbors of color. My dad’s previous three bosses were all white men he loathed for abuses of privilege and people.

It is unfair power that my father despises. The last rant I heard him on was not about race or immigration but about the recent royal wedding, the spectacle of which made him sick.

“What’s so special about the royals?” he told me over the phone from a cheap motel after work. “But they’ll get the best health care, the best education, the best food. Meanwhile I’m in Marion, Arkansas. All I want is some chickens and a garden and place to go fishing once in a while.”

What my father seeks is not a return to times that were worse for women and people of color but progress toward a society in which everyone can get by, including his white, college-educated son who graduated into the Great Recession and for 10 years sold his own plasma for gas money. After being laid off during that recession in 2008, my dad had to cash in his retirement to make ends meet while looking for another job. He has labored nearly every day of his life and has no savings beyond Social Security.

Yes, my father is angry at someone. But it is not his co-worker Gem, a Filipino immigrant with whom he has split a room to pocket some of the per diem from their employer, or Francisco, a Hispanic crew member with whom he recently built a Wendy’s north of Memphis. His anger, rather, is directed at bosses who exploit labor and governments that punish the working poor — two sides of a capitalist democracy that bleeds people like him dry.

“Corporations,” Dad said. “That’s it. That’s the point of the sword that’s killing us.”

Among white workers, this negative energy has been manipulated to great political effect by a conservative trifecta in media, private interest and celebrity that we might call Fox, Koch and Trump.

As my dad told me, “There’s jackasses on every level of the food chain — but those jackasses are the ones that play all these other jackasses.”

Still, millions of white working-class people have refused to be played. They have resisted the traps of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia and nationalism and voted the other way — or, in too many cases, not voted at all. I am far less interested in calls for empathy toward struggling white Americans who spout or abide hatred than I am in tapping into the political power of those who don’t.

Like many Midwestern workers I know, my dad has more in common ideologically with the Bronx’s Democratic Socialist congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez than with the white Republicans who run our state. Having spent most of his life doing dangerous, underpaid work without health insurance, he supports the ideas of single-payer health care and a universal basic income.

Much has been made of the white working class’s political shift to the right. But Mr. Trump won among white college graduates, too. According to those same exit polls trotted out to blame the “uneducated,” 49 percent of whites with degrees picked Mr. Trump, while 45 percent picked Hillary Clinton (among them, support for Mr. Trump was stronger among men). Such Americans hardly “vote against their own best interest.” Media coverage suggests that economically distressed whiteness elected Mr. Trump, when in fact it was just plain whiteness.

Stories dispelling the persistent notion that bigotry is the sole province of “uneducated” people in derided “flyover” states are right before our eyes: A white man caught on camera assaulting a black man at a white-supremacist rally last August in Charlottesville, Va., was recently identified as a California engineer. This year, a white male lawyer berated restaurant workers for speaking Spanish in New York City. A white, female, Stanford-educated chemical engineer called the Oakland, Calif., police on a family for, it would appear, barbecuing while black.

Among the 30 states tidily declared “red” after the 2016 election, in two-thirds of them Mrs. Clinton received 35 to 48 percent of the vote. My white working-class family was part of that large minority, rendered invisible by the Electoral College and graphics that paint each state red or blue.


Source

Democrats certainly aren't helping themselves by going so far off message with this Russia hysteria. It's sucking the oxygen out of pretty much anything else that they could use rally the support of voters.


The president called sending a US ambassador to a hostile nation to be interrogated part of an interesting idea he'd consider.
It's like calling someone frantically dialling the fire department as their house burns down around them hysterical.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14187 Posts
July 19 2018 21:15 GMT
#10102
Theres a list of things that Trump has done that has been proven that Democrats could be trotting out and talking about instead of anything to do with russia. When he talked about immigration they could have brought up his properties off shore that are routinely used by drug cartels to launder money. When he talked about how sanctuary cities were bad they could have brough up his red lining conviction.

But instead they go for Russia which isn't getting any real traction and burns slower then a sented candle. Its hysteria to continue to go on about Russia.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 19 2018 21:19 GMT
#10103
On July 20 2018 06:15 Sermokala wrote:
Theres a list of things that Trump has done that has been proven that Democrats could be trotting out and talking about instead of anything to do with russia. When he talked about immigration they could have brought up his properties off shore that are routinely used by drug cartels to launder money. When he talked about how sanctuary cities were bad they could have brough up his red lining conviction.

But instead they go for Russia which isn't getting any real traction and burns slower then a sented candle. Its hysteria to continue to go on about Russia.

you're using the wrong word; that's not "hysteria" that's "poor strategy" or "stupid".
also, to what extent are the Dems heavily going after russia and not mentioning all those other things? it seems like I hear more Republicans saying that's what Dems do than Dems actually doing it themselves.

Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 19 2018 21:59 GMT
#10104
On July 20 2018 06:15 Sermokala wrote:
Theres a list of things that Trump has done that has been proven that Democrats could be trotting out and talking about instead of anything to do with russia. When he talked about immigration they could have brought up his properties off shore that are routinely used by drug cartels to launder money. When he talked about how sanctuary cities were bad they could have brough up his red lining conviction.

But instead they go for Russia which isn't getting any real traction and burns slower then a sented candle. Its hysteria to continue to go on about Russia.

Not to mention that Trump's appointment of Kavanaugh is now being ignored. Republicans are free to fast-track him through the confirmation process while Trump keeps gaslighting the media and the democrats.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-19 22:07:12
July 19 2018 22:04 GMT
#10105
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14187 Posts
July 19 2018 22:10 GMT
#10106
On July 20 2018 06:19 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 06:15 Sermokala wrote:
Theres a list of things that Trump has done that has been proven that Democrats could be trotting out and talking about instead of anything to do with russia. When he talked about immigration they could have brought up his properties off shore that are routinely used by drug cartels to launder money. When he talked about how sanctuary cities were bad they could have brough up his red lining conviction.

But instead they go for Russia which isn't getting any real traction and burns slower then a sented candle. Its hysteria to continue to go on about Russia.

you're using the wrong word; that's not "hysteria" that's "poor strategy" or "stupid".
also, to what extent are the Dems heavily going after russia and not mentioning all those other things? it seems like I hear more Republicans saying that's what Dems do than Dems actually doing it themselves.


It would be poor strategy or stupid if it was controlled in any way. Instead we get calls for impeachment every other development that everyone knows will go no where. We get predictions that muller will be fired in the week every single week. People even in this thread talk about civil war and a military coup to take trump out of power.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/opinions/americans-are-right-to-wonder-if-great-experiment-has-failed-richardson/index.html

This article by cnn is questioning if "the great experiment" of america has failed. They're talking about how america might be a failed state. If thats not hysterics you need to check yourself in.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 19 2018 22:14 GMT
#10107
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-19 22:20:44
July 19 2018 22:19 GMT
#10108
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.


Was he trolling when he said he'd consider handing over ex-diplomats for interrogation? We really going to just chalk his bad ideas up to 3d chess? Seems just as likely, if not more likely, that he is just and idiot who says and does stupid things.

Also, how is the President trolling the press, if that is what it is, in any way appropriate?
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-19 22:20:52
July 19 2018 22:19 GMT
#10109
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.


Trolling (or, "acting to enrage others") has nothing to do with gaslighting. Indeed, trolling is a terrible method for making people question their own sanity because angry people with a target for their anger will just become more convinced they're right, especially if they're angry because the other person is stupid or crazy (the easiest ways to troll).

It's very difficult for Trump to make anyone question their own sanity by denying what they know as reality, which is what gaslighting is, because nobody believes a thing he says anymore (and with good reason). Not even his supporters; they arguably got there even faster than the opposition, funnily enough.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-19 22:40:30
July 19 2018 22:37 GMT
#10110
On July 20 2018 07:10 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 06:19 zlefin wrote:
On July 20 2018 06:15 Sermokala wrote:
Theres a list of things that Trump has done that has been proven that Democrats could be trotting out and talking about instead of anything to do with russia. When he talked about immigration they could have brought up his properties off shore that are routinely used by drug cartels to launder money. When he talked about how sanctuary cities were bad they could have brough up his red lining conviction.

But instead they go for Russia which isn't getting any real traction and burns slower then a sented candle. Its hysteria to continue to go on about Russia.

you're using the wrong word; that's not "hysteria" that's "poor strategy" or "stupid".
also, to what extent are the Dems heavily going after russia and not mentioning all those other things? it seems like I hear more Republicans saying that's what Dems do than Dems actually doing it themselves.


It would be poor strategy or stupid if it was controlled in any way. Instead we get calls for impeachment every other development that everyone knows will go no where. We get predictions that muller will be fired in the week every single week. People even in this thread talk about civil war and a military coup to take trump out of power.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/opinions/americans-are-right-to-wonder-if-great-experiment-has-failed-richardson/index.html

This article by cnn is questioning if "the great experiment" of america has failed. They're talking about how america might be a failed state. If thats not hysterics you need to check yourself in.

that some idiot somewhere always does it is NOT the same as it being the Dems main/primary/significant strategy.
It's a big country; and the nature of current media is finding the crazies on the other side and pointing to them as exemplars.
So that doesn't remotely qualify to establish your point.
(and of course trump should've been impeached ages ago, but that's another story).
Did you actually read the full article you cite? because it also doesn't really backup your claim of hysterics at all, and seems more nuanced.

all you're doing is cherry-pickin gthings to prove your point rather than looking at the actual aggregates. Probably as a result of consuming poorer quality media which leave you with a warped and inaccurate view of what's actually happening.
so it remains the case that you were usin the wrong word; and that furthermore you tried to chang ethe claim you made to a somewhat easier but still wrong claim. please don't goalpost shift in response to criticism.
the post I initially responded to of yours was clearly focused on the strategic soundness of it, which made 'hysteria' a poor fit for the points you raised.
you then here raised a different set of points to call hysteria upon.

Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 19 2018 22:47 GMT
#10111
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.

Ignoring whether or not you're right, for people to stand behind a president who acts in such a manner, and then act as if the opposition are the people doing the dividing in this country, is the most laughable irony. Either he's telling the truth and is completely out of line, or he's being the pathological liar we know he is, and is just fucking with people. I want neither man as my president.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
July 19 2018 22:55 GMT
#10112
Did you all talk about Kraninger and the CFPB confirmation yet? Or the VA whistleblower report? Don't wanna link and repost old news if it's already been discussed.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
July 19 2018 23:00 GMT
#10113
On July 20 2018 07:55 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Did you all talk about Kraninger and the CFPB confirmation yet? Or the VA whistleblower report? Don't wanna link and repost old news if it's already been discussed.


Post away, thats new to me
Something witty
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-19 23:17:54
July 19 2018 23:15 GMT
#10114
This is the Kraninger confirmation stuff. Might have more links. On mobile so can't really follow. But it seems like this administration is just promoting barely to not even close to qualified people into positions that impact a lot of people's lives.
Democratic Senators Slam Trump's Pick To Run Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

Here is the VA whistleblower story. Apparently, like we kind of knew already, whistleblowers get no love. Either sidelined, fired, or penalized more harshly than managers.
Source
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 19 2018 23:28 GMT
#10115
--- Nuked ---
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8169 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-20 00:58:30
July 20 2018 00:56 GMT
#10116
On July 20 2018 07:19 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.


Was he trolling when he said he'd consider handing over ex-diplomats for interrogation? We really going to just chalk his bad ideas up to 3d chess? Seems just as likely, if not more likely, that he is just and idiot who says and does stupid things.

Also, how is the President trolling the press, if that is what it is, in any way appropriate?

It’s gonna take a long time for Dauntless to admit he elected a complete and utter moron to the White House, that’s all there is to it.

People who voted for this clown hold on to the idea he is « trolling » or whatever because of what the fact they enthusiastically supported such a giant, incompetent c... says about them.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-20 02:13:54
July 20 2018 02:13 GMT
#10117
On July 20 2018 07:19 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.


Was he trolling when he said he'd consider handing over ex-diplomats for interrogation? We really going to just chalk his bad ideas up to 3d chess? Seems just as likely, if not more likely, that he is just and idiot who says and does stupid things.

Also, how is the President trolling the press, if that is what it is, in any way appropriate?

I’m not going to pretend to know the motivation behind every comment. Nor am I going to presume that Trump is infallible. He makes mistakes as is evidenced by the press conference in Helsinki.

As for trolling the press, I really have no problem with it. Trump has correctly calculated that the mainstream press is his political enemy and is acting accordingly. He could act with W’s sense of dignity and propriety, but look at what that got W by the end. Trump’s not going to go down that path, and I don’t want him to. I’d rather he fight.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-20 02:42:31
July 20 2018 02:19 GMT
#10118
On July 20 2018 09:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 07:19 On_Slaught wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.


Was he trolling when he said he'd consider handing over ex-diplomats for interrogation? We really going to just chalk his bad ideas up to 3d chess? Seems just as likely, if not more likely, that he is just and idiot who says and does stupid things.

Also, how is the President trolling the press, if that is what it is, in any way appropriate?

It’s gonna take a long time for Dauntless to admit he elected a complete and utter moron to the White House, that’s all there is to it.

People who voted for this clown hold on to the idea he is « trolling » or whatever because of what the fact they enthusiastically supported such a giant, incompetent c... says about them.

Far from it. Trump is doing exactly what I voted for him to do. Hell, he is acting more conservative than the fools on Capitol Hill. Earlier today, I saw an article (I think it was from The Hill) that discussed how Trump was unhappy with how the GOP refused to cut as much funding from various administrative agencies as Trump had requested. It is shit like that which makes congressional republicans so despised among the base.

Edit: Here is an article talking about it.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
July 20 2018 03:15 GMT
#10119
On July 20 2018 11:19 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2018 09:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:19 On_Slaught wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:14 xDaunt wrote:
On July 20 2018 07:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Is it really gaslighting if you believe the things you're saying that are making people question their own grasp on reality?

Also, I'm not sure how what Trump is doing could be described as gaslighting because he's not making anyone believe anything things happened that didn't happen and nobody is questioning their own sanity, but nobody seems to use terms correctly anyway so.

You don't think that his announcing today that Putin was coming to the White House this fall was gaslighting? He is deliberately trolling the media and the opposition.


Was he trolling when he said he'd consider handing over ex-diplomats for interrogation? We really going to just chalk his bad ideas up to 3d chess? Seems just as likely, if not more likely, that he is just and idiot who says and does stupid things.

Also, how is the President trolling the press, if that is what it is, in any way appropriate?

It’s gonna take a long time for Dauntless to admit he elected a complete and utter moron to the White House, that’s all there is to it.

People who voted for this clown hold on to the idea he is « trolling » or whatever because of what the fact they enthusiastically supported such a giant, incompetent c... says about them.

Far from it. Trump is doing exactly what I voted for him to do. Hell, he is acting more conservative than the fools on Capitol Hill. Earlier today, I saw an article (I think it was from The Hill) that discussed how Trump was unhappy with how the GOP refused to cut as much funding from various administrative agencies as Trump had requested. It is shit like that which makes congressional republicans so despised among the base.

Edit: Here is an article talking about it.

Even at the costs of others lives and well being, you're standing by this guy?
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24793 Posts
July 20 2018 03:32 GMT
#10120
He comes across like a blithering idiot and he has access to launch nuclear strikes, without oversight. To me, this is the most terrifying moment in human history. I'm glad some conservatives are getting some of their agenda items advanced.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
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