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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 14 2018 03:50 JimmiC wrote:
I mean it so widely spread in each party that I think there is almost more of a difference between Bernie and Hilary then there was between Hilary and the Donald.
The way to fix that is to reform the voting system to have much larger areas where you don't have to be first past the post to get a seat. Can scrap the president post totally and you only have parties that get 25.4% of the votes needing to cooperate with 3 other parties that become prime minister from a minority position.
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You aren't going to be able to scrap the fptp system till either both major parties support a change from a system that supports them, or the electorate demands such a change as a major position. See what happened when it was proposed during a period of coalition. The smaller party, the Lib dems wanted it, but neither of the majority parties wanted it as it supports them and so whoever supports the major parties ended up voting against their own interest to scrap FPTP both due to lack of understanding due to advertising mismatch and party allegiance.
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On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:
[quote]
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. Show nested quote +So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it.
you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own
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On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own
Thanks, but just let it go for the sake of the thread. They didn't get it then, they're not going to get it now. If someone is truly and sincerely interested, PM me.
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On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own Your going to have to try REALLY hard to convince me that Vox's definition of the alt right 'just happens' to include the 14 words in an explanation about how they are totally not white supremacists.
Its not exactly a phrase you throw out in every day conversation.
Again, there are no if's or but's here. We even have the proof now that we didn't have when this conversation originally happens. And still he can't bring himself to say "sorry I was wrong".
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On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own
That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins.
My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum.
The article
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to put it in harold bloom's terms we might consider vox day's deliberate misprision to be the "clinamen" altering previous iterations via the 15th point. vox day bends the words through the lens of his "enlightened" white identity activism which ratifies "separate but equal" in place of concentration camps. its the difference between slavery and jim crow; a distinction not always worth pointing out.
ok ill drop it now. but the libidinal investment you guys have in hanging anyone who might make such a distinction is kind of disturbing
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On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:
[quote]
How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that?
Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article
What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler.
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On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama.
Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler.
Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.”
The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent.
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On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
[quote]
What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Show nested quote +Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent.
You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right.
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On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama.
Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler.
White supremacism is not a left or right ideology. Alt-right is just a term to tribalise and sanitise white supremacism, so it can become mainstream.
Jeez, I wonder who even invented the term alt-right. It's a brilliant piece of rebranding, I'll give him/her that. If only such marketing genius could be applied to investigative journalism that honours the truth, that digs out corruption, the democratic world would be in a better place.
Maybe quality journalism. Quality probably sound too elitist for the target market however.
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On July 14 2018 04:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right.
Are you telling me that you believe that Vox Day, a guy that calls blacks savages and who worked on a collaborative project with known white nationalist and Nazi, did not just rebrand white nationalist propaganda for his audience? You really believe that given what you just read?
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On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
[quote]
What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Show nested quote +Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent.
the point is plansix that history repeats itself always with difference. substituting analysis with the cry "nazi!" is not sufficient. thats what is so irritating with all this talk about how "nothing is new under the sun." one is compelled to respond, "yes but no"
edit: look what youve already done in the post above mine! you substituted "white nationalism" for "white supremacism." even xdaunt thinks that the self-avowed white nationalist is a white nationalist
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On July 14 2018 04:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right. That just 'happens' to include the 14 words in a 'totally not supremacist' way.
Seriously, how the fuck can you not see the connection here, its a flashing neon sign....
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On July 14 2018 04:58 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. the point is plansix that history repeats itself always with difference. substituting analysis with the cry "nazi!" is not sufficient. thats what is so irritating with all this talk about how "nothing is new under the sun." one is compelled to respond, "yes but no"
Just because someone took a pile of shit and made it into the shape of a cake does not make it a cake.
More importantly, the political aims of white nationalist propaganda are to use the trappings of rational debate and discussion to spread their message, while not engaging with the rational debate. By attempting to argue the merits of Vox Day’s 16 points without discussing why he made them, we are playing a long history of subverting good faith discussion. You desire to view these 16 points in a vacuum, I argue the vacuum doesn’t exist. Or to put it simply, it is impossible to debate the shameless and these people have no shame.
On July 14 2018 04:58 IgnE wrote:
edit: look what youve already done in the post above mine! you substituted "white nationalism" for "white supremacism." even xdaunt thinks that the self-avowed white nationalist is a white nationalist
Any effort to separate those two things is an argument in bad faith. White nationalists and white supremacists are the same people, the same group. They will not be separated in reality and the ideology of one is simply a means to obtain the other.
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On July 14 2018 04:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right. Are you telling me that you believe that Vox Day, a guy that calls blacks savages and who worked on a collaborative project with known white nationalist and Nazi, did not just rebrand white nationalist propaganda for his audience? You really believe that given what you just read?
Again, you're conflating a lot of things. First, it's a stretch to say that Vox Day "collaborated." Milo sent him a copy of the Alt Right article for comment, and Vox Day duly commented. Second, Vox Day is very clearly pro white nationalist, which is a point that is explicit in my original post from last year. So I don't know why you're now making the argument about "whether xDaunt thinks Vox Day is a white nationalist." Third, no, I don't think that Vox Day has simply rebranded old Nazi propaganda. His ideas are quite distinct. However, as I have said before, there are elements of the Alt Right that are simply rebranded Nazism.
You're so triggered by this conversation that you're not following stuff at all.
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On July 14 2018 05:03 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right. That just 'happens' to include the 14 words in a 'totally not supremacist' way. Seriously, how the fuck can you not see the connection here, its a flashing neon sign....
Has it ever occurred to you that Vox Day is trolling everyone while still making his point?
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On July 14 2018 03:50 JimmiC wrote:
I mean it so widely spread in each party that I think there is almost more of a difference between Bernie and Hilary then there was between Hilary and the Donald.
well, I'd say that's wrong; hillary is alot closer to bernie than to donald.
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On July 14 2018 05:07 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 04:55 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:[quote] You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right. Are you telling me that you believe that Vox Day, a guy that calls blacks savages and who worked on a collaborative project with known white nationalist and Nazi, did not just rebrand white nationalist propaganda for his audience? You really believe that given what you just read? Again, you're conflating a lot of things. First, it's a stretch to say that Vox Day "collaborated." Milo sent him a copy of the Alt Right article for comment, and Vox Day duly commented. Second, Vox Day is very clearly pro white nationalist, which is a point that is explicit in my original post from last year. So I don't know why you're now making the argument about "whether xDaunt thinks Vox Day is a white nationalist." Third, no, I don't think that Vox Day has simply rebranded old Nazi propaganda. His ideas are quite distinct. However, as I have said before, there are elements of the Alt Right that are simply rebranded Nazism. You're so triggered by this conversation that you're not following stuff at all.
White Nationalist are white supremacist. Creating a nation of all white people is simply a way to obtain complete control over a nation and all levers of power. And then that power can be used to obtain more power from non-white nationalist nations through war or political subversion. There is no way the ideology of white nationalism ends as the border of the pure white nation. Or the pure white nation is obtained without committing terrible crimes against non-white races.
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On July 14 2018 05:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 05:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:41 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:35 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 04:29 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 04:08 IgnE wrote:On July 14 2018 02:40 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:[quote] You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played. Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about. Just to refresh things here for people this is your actual words in question. So let me start by addressing why Vox Day's 14th Point ("The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.") is not about white supremacy. SourceYou literally tried to claim the 14 words were not about white supremacy. There are no if's or but's about it. you didnt quote the 15th point laid out there in the source post about how the alt right supposedly doesnt believe any race is superior to any other. xdaunt is reading "white supremacy" as not necessarily inherent to a white ethnostate hypothetically capable of peacefully coexisting with nonwhite ethnostates. its basically a vision of "separate but equal" and you can obviously question the coherence of such a view but plansix's constant harping on xdaunts posting of vox day is misrepresentative. xdaunt did put in bold that vox day's views were not his own That 15th point is a clear effort to try and sanitize white nationalist ideology for the public, as detailed in the article posted previously showing Vox Day was working with white nationalist to do just that. It is fruitless to discuss the writings without discussing the fact that they were written with the intent to obfuscate their origins. My issue with Dauntless isn’t that he posted the 14 words or what he believes, but the fact that he has refused to engage with the source material for that ideology. And that the source material is so tainted that anything that follows afterwards is poisonous. Ideas do not exist in a vacuum. The article What "source material?" That Buzzfeed article concerns Milo. Not Vox Day. The Alt Right isn't some monolithic entity. As I have written before, it has a variety of factions with varying beliefs ranging from something to the right of me to Adolf Hitler. Over the next three days, Yiannopoulos passed the article back to Yarvin and the white nationalist Saucier, the latter of whom gave line-by-line annotations. He also sent it to Vox Day, a writer who was expelled from the board of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for calling a black writer an “ignorant savage,” and to Alex Marlow, the editor of Breitbart.
“Solid, fair, and fairly comprehensive,” Vox Day responded, with a few suggestions.
“Most of it is great but I don’t want to rush a major long form piece like this,” Marlow wrote back. “A few people will need to weigh in since it deals heavily with race.” The 16 points you are talking about was a collaborative work between Milo, several white nationalist, Nazis and Vox Day. Defining the Alt-Right was the work of Nazis and white Nationalists. He is literally referenced in the article. The have the god damn emails he sent. You're conflating a lot of things. The "collaborative work" that you're referring to is Milo's survey article of the Alt Right. As far as I know, the 16 points are strictly Vox Day's formulation of the Alt Right. That just 'happens' to include the 14 words in a 'totally not supremacist' way. Seriously, how the fuck can you not see the connection here, its a flashing neon sign.... Has it ever occurred to you that Vox Day is trolling everyone while still making his point?
Have you ever considered that he was deadly serious?
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