EPTHappy holidays, guys!
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4668
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9769 Posts
Happy holidays, guys! | ||
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Billyboy
1450 Posts
On December 19 2024 08:41 micronesia wrote: The latest news is that Trump (in the 11th hour, suddenly) blew up the near-settled funding plan that would prevent a government shutdown this weekend: https://apnews.com/article/government-shutdown-congress-trump-elon-budget-house-republican-05481374b154949c3fe1270141a02918 A government shutdown Christmas week will not be popular. edit: can we make an orange Grinch image somehow? Merry Christmas ![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/ePRxC4s) https://imgur.com/a/ePRxC4s | ||
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Razyda
901 Posts
On December 19 2024 11:12 WombaT wrote: Except the cultural burden of Santa is imposed by others and the wider culture. So this somewhat breaks down. It’s not something I sit down one day and decide ‘hey better tell kiddo about this guy Santa’ If you’re poor you’ve got two options, tell your kid Santa is bullshit and remove that pillar of childlike innocence and wonder and the reason their friends get better presents is because you don’t have as much money, or have your kid believe and think they’re at some kind of personal moral fault because Santa didn’t treat them as well Quite frankly I dont think that what you wrote, has anything to do with the point I made? | ||
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oBlade
United States5882 Posts
On December 19 2024 07:07 Sermokala wrote: If you're okay with lieing to people about santa then you need to be okay with the government lieing to serve your best interest. Similarly, if you're okay with representing to a toddler the falsehood that you stole his nose by putting your thumb between your fist, you have to be okay with a government ministry of truth and disinformation. There is no tyranny from the power of people making you believe in Santa, and Santa-ites have no ability to jail, oppress, or otherwise trespass on your rights and they have no power over citizens. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9769 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26248 Posts
On December 19 2024 17:26 Jockmcplop wrote: I know if I were sick of the government lying to me I know what I would do, and it would probably involve finding the biggest liar America has ever seen and electing that guy instead. Remarkably well-put | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
On December 19 2024 07:07 Sermokala wrote: If you're okay with lieing to people about santa then you need to be okay with the government lieing to serve your best interest. When you thought this thread couldn’t get any stupider… Gotta hand it to you, this is some high quality bait 10/10 I almost fell for it  | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5048 Posts
There are a lot of reasons why kids can't understand the cold hard realities too early. They are too easily molded into ideologically driven zealots, for example, so keep that as far away from them as possible if you can. Try to let them enjoy a little. I don't resent anyone that I've been lied to about Santa, so maybe it's a you problem instead of a systemic one if you find this tradition to be so egregious. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26248 Posts
On December 19 2024 12:28 Razyda wrote: Quite frankly I dont think that what you wrote, has anything to do with the point I made? I was referring to ‘Someone lying to kids about Santa takes the burden on himself…’ and disagreeing with that framing. I think it’s a stretch to try to compare a cultural compulsion to a governmental or legal one, agreed there. My wider point was more that the wider culture pushes the Santa myth, rather hard and not the choice of individual parents. This doesn’t preclude individual parents rejecting it, they can still do that, but they’re pushing against that wider cultural tide. Interesting thought experiment, how much spending revenue does the fictional character Santa drive? It’s got to be a fuckload. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On December 19 2024 09:46 WombaT wrote: Why are you so vociferous on government being 100% truthful in these domains but so reticent to demand regulation of obvious lies in other domains? I don't think that's incongruent at all. I'm generally more liberal than most people here on policing speech. It doesn't follow that I should be more tolerant of the government telling falsehoods. I think the people telling "obvious lies" shouldn't lie either... I think the opposite beliefs is where you would find the incongruence. If you want regulation against lying you probably shouldn't be okay with the government telling lies. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26248 Posts
On December 19 2024 19:42 Uldridge wrote: How is this Santa bit even a thing? You have kids and try to make life on this planet as magical a place for as long as you can before they realize that everything is actually dogshit. What's so harmful in that? There are a lot of reasons why kids can't understand the cold hard realities too early. They are too easily molded into ideologically driven zealots, for example, so keep that as far away from them as possible if you can. Try to let them enjoy a little. I don't resent anyone that I've been lied to about Santa, so maybe it's a you problem instead of a systemic one if you find this tradition to be so egregious. Because ‘be good and you’ll get rewarded by some magical man’ isn’t innately a problem, until oh look it’s what your parents can afford. Which then when you’re in school comparing what Santa got and you, a decent kid got fuck all, you must not have been a good enough kid right? It delays some of the realities of life, but it swaps out a systemic understanding for some kind of personal moral fault. It’s also exactly this kind of cultural practice that moulds people into ideological zealots. Unless one doesn’t consider inculcating being a good consumerist as being particular ideological, which I’d disagree with. There is some fun and good times with the tradition too. I used to rather enjoy coming down on Christmas Day with the half-eaten carrots and a note that Rudolph couldn’t finish them as he’d gotten too many treats on his journey and all that fun stuff. Did that with my kid myself, equally I’m not sure it’s a tradition I’d start today in a vacuum. Frankly overall I think Christmas has become a bit much in terms of expectations that folks struggle to meet | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5048 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9769 Posts
At the same time, I love Christmas and have a great time with my family when I get to see them, and giving gifts is part of that (although I am often too poor to give anything meaningful). Sometimes I think its better to actually completely divorce your political opinions from how you live in real life, and Christmas would be an example of that for me. Politically, its a horrible example of what our society has become, but personally, its a magical time where my entire family gets together and all get to reminisce and generally have a good time. Because of the personal thing, these political discussions about Christmas never fail to make me cringe. It always seems very 'edgy teenager' like. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11748 Posts
On December 19 2024 19:42 Uldridge wrote: How is this Santa bit even a thing? You have kids and try to make life on this planet as magical a place for as long as you can before they realize that everything is actually dogshit. What's so harmful in that? There are a lot of reasons why kids can't understand the cold hard realities too early. They are too easily molded into ideologically driven zealots, for example, so keep that as far away from them as possible if you can. Try to let them enjoy a little. I don't resent anyone that I've been lied to about Santa, so maybe it's a you problem instead of a systemic one if you find this tradition to be so egregious. Very off-topic, but i am not really a fan of lying to your children. You can have the whole Santa/gift thing going on without telling the children it is literally Santa who is doing the gifting. I am generally a big fan of honesty and interacting respectfully with everyone, including children. And i don't think willfully telling them lies is any of that. My parents never did the whole christmas lying thing, and i still had very enjoyable christmasses as a child. One of the most popular movies watched in Germany over the holidays (Loriot - Weihnachten bei Hoppenstedts) involves the grandfather very clearly dressing up as santa, and then being annoyed when he is found out. | ||
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Vivax
22175 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26248 Posts
On December 19 2024 20:49 Jockmcplop wrote: Sure, you can see how the Santa thing relates to the consumerism that has... consumed Christmas. At the same time, I love Christmas and have a great time with my family when I get to see them, and giving gifts is part of that (although I am often too poor to give anything meaningful). Sometimes I think its better to actually completely divorce your political opinions from how you live in real life, and Christmas would be an example of that for me. Politically, its a horrible example of what our society has become, but personally, its a magical time where my entire family gets together and all get to reminisce and generally have a good time. Because of the personal thing, these political discussions about Christmas never fail to make me cringe. It always seems very 'edgy teenager' like. I do agree on the family part and not being a grouchy Grinch, yeah absolutely. But on the flipside surely that’s the best time to draw the line? ‘Hey we all love this part about Christmas, this part sucks, why not emphasise the first part more?’ | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
Why exactly has this unserious discussion turned into a serious discussion? What's the point of this? | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Did someone say unserious Rand Paul floating Elon Musk to replace Mike Johnson as Speaker of the House since there’s nothing in the constitution saying the speaker has to be a member of Congress! Normally I’d dismiss it as something stupid some jackaas floated with no real possibility of it happening but Elon buying House Speakership is hilariously possible for the modern day US | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45276 Posts
On December 19 2024 23:52 Zambrah wrote: https://www.axios.com/2024/12/19/gop-senator-rand-paul-elon-musk-speaker-of-house Did someone say unserious Rand Paul floating Elon Musk to replace Mike Johnson as Speaker of the House since there’s nothing in the constitution saying the speaker has to be a member of Congress! Normally I’d dismiss it as something stupid some jackass floated with no real possibility of it happening but Elon buying House Speakership is hilariously possible for the modern day US Elon Musk almost certainly doesn't want to be bothered with that level of politicking, but that makes me wonder: Speaker of the House is in the presidential line of succession, right after the vice president... in a world where Elon Musk becomes Speaker, and if Trump and Vance were to die, would Elon Musk just be skipped in line (because he wasn't born in the United States), or is that a hypothetical loophole for a foreign-born person to become president? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22088 Posts
And no there is no world where Musk wants to become speaker. It would take up way to much of his time, plus there is no way he (and anyone else for that matter) doesn't go insane trying to herd Republicans. | ||
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