US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4424

On October 02 2024 10:38 Taelshin wrote:
Good I didn't miss the DPB breakdown, cant wait.

On October 02 2024 11:04 WombaT wrote:
Merci beaucoup

Oof some of those questions are brutal, although entirely fair!

How would you score it so far?

On October 02 2024 11:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


It's close so far. I think Vance is a tiny bit ahead, but it's way closer than the previous two debates (Biden vs. Trump and Trump vs. Harris).

Vance and Walz are also being incredibly cordial to each other, often times partially-agreeing with each other. Very respectful debate, in general.

On October 02 2024 11:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:

I think it's mostly Vance's desperate appeal to not seem like a weirdo and to come across somewhat intelligent. He still fucks couches though sooo....

On October 02 2024 11:06 Gahlo wrote:
I missed listenable debates.

On October 02 2024 10:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:




Walz vs. Vance Debate 10/1/24

First Topic: Middle East / Iran’s failed attack on Israel today. Walz/Vance, if you were in charge, would you support or oppose a preemptive strike by Israel on Iran?
Walz: Both-sides-ing about why we need to support Israel’s fundamental right to exist + defend Palestinians right to live. Then pivots to how Trump is unfit for office, and how Biden and Harris know how to be diplomatic. (Doesn’t answer the question at all, shaky voice to start.)
Vance: Vance introduces himself to the viewers, talks about his family life and growing up. Then he asserts that Trump can create a stable world with effective deterrents, and that ultimately the answer to the question is up to Israel. (Doesn’t quite answer the question, voice is more comfortable and calm than Walz’s though.)
Walz: Rejects assertions that Trump perpetuates stability when he’s in power, and claims that the Biden/Harris administration has been more stable on the global stage.
Vance: Claims that the Middle East is more tumultuous under Biden/Harris, and that it was peaceful during the Trump administration.

Second Topic: Hurricane Helene / Climate Change. Vance/Walz, how can we reduce the impact of climate change?
Vance: Government needs to do their job, and Trump will put the people first. States that Trump and Vance support clean air and clean water, and that Harris and Walz don’t invest in the American people.
Walz: Contrasts Democratic bills that address climate change, like Inflation Reduction Act, and the creation of relevant jobs with Trump calling climate change a hoax.
Vance: Doesn’t deny that Trump called climate change a hoax, but instead asserts that Harris doesn’t take climate change seriously. He says that we’re wasting money investing in solar energy panels that are created in China.
Walz: Says that the people being affected by climate change are everyday people, such as farmers, and that we need to protect these people’s lives and professions, and the environment. He then repeats that Trump called climate change a hoax.

Third Topic: Immigration / Border Crisis. Vance/Walz, how would mass deportation and border security work and would you separate parents from their children, even if their kids are U.S. citizens?
Vance: Claims we have a historic immigration crisis because Harris repealed all of Trump’s border policies and is letting in fentanyl and that illegals are using kids as drug mules. Vance says we need to Build A Wall. Vance says we need to start addressing the issue by deporting the illegal immigrants and criminal immigrants.
Walz: Said the drug-mule-kids isn’t actually happening, and mentioned a decrease in drug-related deaths but that there’s always more to do in addressing fentanyl and other drug issues. Then brought up the bipartisan border bill that Trump killed, and said that Trump broke his promise about building a wall the first time around.
Vance: Drug-mule-kids are real. Harris isn’t serious about addressing border issues. Trump is.
Walz: We can’t address the actual issues if we’re busy vilifying and dehumanizing all immigrants, like in Springfield, Ohio.
Vance: We need to empower law enforcement to do their job, and Biden and Harris are not doing that. In Springfield, U.S. citizens are struggling because of open borders. Vance says he thinks Walz wants to solve the problem but doesn’t believe that Harris wants to.
Walz: We need to support the Congressional bill for border security but still allow immigrants their humanity and dignity. He then mentions a Bible passage appealing to the Golden Rule.
Vance: Illegal immigrants can become legal by going through a Harris loophole process.
Walz: That supposed loophole has been around since the 1990’s.

Fourth Topic: Economy. Walz/Vance, what’s your plan and how would you pay for it?
Walz: Mentions housing credits, child tax credits, and small business credits, to help all families make ends meet. Paying for it by asking the super-rich to pay their fair share.
Vance: Some of what Walz has said sounds pretty good, but Harris hasn’t done them as vice president, so we can’t trust her to do them as president. Trump would give more tax cuts and we need to have “common sense wisdom”, and not listen to economists and PhDs.
Walz: Harris’s Day 1 was fixing Trump’s covid mess. Of course we need to trust the experts too. We can’t just disregard scientists and economists.
Vance: The experts have been wrong about a lot of things, so we shouldn’t trust them. Trump has wisdom and courage, and we can trust him, especially with the economy. We need to be self-reliant too.
Walz: There’s nothing wrong with being self-reliant – Harris has created millions of new jobs and we support unions – but it’s also important to have trusted trading partners around the world.
Vance: Trump lowered the inflation rate, helped the American people, and gas and groceries are too expensive under the Harris administration.

Fifth Topic: Walz, were you in Tiananmen Square during the protests, because you said you were but fact-checkers suggest you weren’t. (Savage question!)
Walz: Talked about his life of being a military veteran, and teacher, and congressperson, and governor. Kind of said something about “I misspoke” at the very end. (Terrible answer.)

Sixth Topic: Vance, you said that Trump was “unfit for office” and “American’s Hitler” and disparaged Trump’s economic record as president. Why should people trust you now to tell Trump the truth, instead of what you think he wants to hear? (Savage question!)
Vance: I’ve been consistent with my critiques of things that happened, even during Trump’s administration, but it’s Congress’s fault. Also, tariffs are good. (Terrible answer.)

Seventh Topic: Abortion. Walz, would you allow abortion in the ninth month? Vance, would you create a federal pregnancy monitoring agency?
Walz: During the ninth month or any other month, pregnant women can have life-threatening complications and other situations where legal abortion should be available. Project 2025 has a registry of pregnancies to make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get contraception and medication. Also mentions one or two specific pregnant women who went through tragedy.
Vance: We won’t create a federal pregnancy monitoring agency. We, as Republicans, need to support fertility treatments and be pro-family in all senses of the word. We also need to let the states decide on abortion policy.
Walz: Mentions one or two more pregnant women who went through tragedy. Walz says he agrees with some of what Vance says, but notes that Trump disagrees with what Vance says, and that’s what matters.
Vance: I don’t support a federal ban on abortion, and Democrats are pro-abortion.
Walz: No, we’re pro-women, pro-freedom, pro-choice, pro- letting doctors and people making the best medical decisions possible.
Vance: If a doctor botches an abortion and the baby survives in Minnesota, then doctors can let the baby die on its own, according to your law.
Walz: That’s not the law, and that was already fact-checked when Trump said it.

[first commercial break]

On October 02 2024 11:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


Eighth Topic: Gun Violence / Gun Control, leading cause of death for American children. Vance/Walz, what do you support and how would you deal with school shootings and other related issues?
Vance: We need to trust local authorities, and most gun violence is caused by illegally-obtained guns. We need to increase security in our schools, by “making the doors lock better, the doors stronger, and the windows stronger” (wtf).
Walz: Enhance red flag laws, enhance background checks, allow better research to be done into these crises. It’s not infringing on your second amendment rights, and we’re not trying to take your guns.
Vance: We have mental health issues and substance abuse issues that contribute to gun violence. We need to address those issues and increase security in schools.
Walz: This is an issue in both urban and rural issues, including suicides, but we definitely want to make sure we don’t stigmatize mental health too.

Ninth Topic: Walz, where does Harris want to build millions of new homes and won’t handing out housing credit increase prices?
Walz: No, we’ve actually piloted it in Minnesota and it’s been very successful. And the down payment assistance helps to get families over that first hump of getting in the door.

Tenth Topic: Vance, you want to seize federal lands to build homes, remove regulations, provide tax breaks, and cut back on immigration. Where will you build these homes, why are migrants part of this problem, and how will this provide immediate relief for our housing crisis?
Vance: Kamala Harris is to blame for an increase in illegal immigration. Also, if she has all those great ideas, then she should be creating policy now as vice president. Also also, we need to lower energy prices.
Walz: Border crossings are actually down compared to when Donald Trump left office.
Vance: Our federal administration makes it harder to do things, like build homes.

Eleventh Topic: Healthcare and Medical Costs. Vance, Trump said he only had “concepts” of a plan; what’s your plan, and will it cover pre-existing conditions?
Vance: Yes, and we shouldn’t criticize Trump’s assertion that he had “concepts” of a plan, because he was solid on healthcare back when he was president. Trump also saved Obamacare (wtf).
Walz: Under Kamala Harris, more people are covered under the ACA and have healthcare than ever before. We negotiate drug prices too, unlike Trump. When Trump was president, he tried multiple times to destroy the ACA, and was foiled several times, including thanks to John McCain. Even my fourth-grade students wouldn’t had said “concepts” of a plan. Harris will protect and enhance the ACA.
Vance: Trump protected Obamacare when young, healthy people were leaving the program, and he preserved access to the people who still wanted it. Also, inflation was low under Trump.
Walz: People understand that they need access to healthcare, the ACA works, and we can continue to improve it too.

Twelfth Topic: National Paid Leave / Childcare. Walz/Vance, what would you do to address this?
Walz: The amount of paid leave is negotiable, but we definitely need to do better. In Minnesota, we passed a paid family medical leave plan that lets the family stay together longer before needing to go back to work. Big companies can offer such a thing, but we need to make sure that all workers, everywhere, can have such access. We care about making sure that childcare is affordable, and so we’re providing childcare tax credits to help ease that burden.
Vance: We need to have a model that makes choice possible, so that parents can decide if they want to stay at home longer or go back to work sooner. We want to deliver choice. Parents need to have options. Trump wants to cut taxes for American families to make childcare more affordable.

Thirteenth Topic: State Of Democracy. Despite 62 lawsuits from Trump after the 2020 election, judges looked at the evidence and found no widespread voter fraud. Vance, you said you would not have certified the last presidential election, and would have asked the states to submit alternative states of electors, which is unconstitutional and illegal. Would you, again, challenge the results in 2024? (Savage question, but absolutely warranted!)
Vance: We need to be focused on the future, like fixing inflation. Trump has said that there were problems in 2020 and that we need to peacefully debate those issues. On January 6th, Trump said that we should protest peacefully. (I can’t believe Vance voluntarily brought up the January 6th riot.) The threat to democracy is censorship, Harris wants to censor people, and RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard support Trump.
Walz: We need to tell the story. The fact is that Trump lost the election and he said he didn’t. Police officers were beaten, and people died that day. They chanted “Hang Mike Pence”. Trump should have been mature, shaken hands, and been honest about the fair election.
Vance: Trump peacefully gave over power on January 20th. Hillary Clinton said that Trump stole the election because of Russian Facebook ads.
Walz: Trump’s January 6th is not the same as Putin’s Facebook ads. And you want to talk about censorship? What about Republicans banning books? Vance, did Trump lose the 2020 election?
Vance: I’m focused on the future. (Terrible answer.)
Walz: That is a damning non-answer. (Finish him!)
Vance: What about censorship? There were problems in 2020. We believe in democracy.
Walz: Trump lost the election. That’s not up for debate. The reason why Mike Pence isn’t on this stage with me is because he stood up for democracy and against Trump. (Fatality!)

[second commercial break]

On October 02 2024 12:11 NewSunshine wrote:
I agree that this probably won't tip any scales, it wasn't decisive enough anyway. The political commentators I saw on PBS afterward echoed what I think the problem was: Walz was taking too many opportunities to agree with Vance, rather than confronting him and tying him to Trump, and nailing him on his lack of consistency on his positions. Walz's main problem was that, until the end, he gave Vance way too much leeway to appear like he and Trump are a reasonable option, when they are not.

I know Vance isn't Trump, but the final question proved that if he had gotten grilled more, Vance would've choked harder and more frequently on things Trump does that are blatantly indefensible. Kamala understood better that going on the attack against the radical right wing agenda is the way to go.