EPThttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA_camps_conspiracy_theory#History
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4423
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
KwarK
United States43219 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA_camps_conspiracy_theory#History | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45048 Posts
On October 02 2024 00:25 oBlade wrote: I said equity is a dog whistle for communism. First of all, you're mistaking equity for equality. Second of all, no. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45048 Posts
On October 02 2024 00:42 WombaT wrote: Ah it’s not just me that’s confused then? I’d put it down to my hangover initially The confusion is definitely justified; oBlade is literally fabricating quotes without sourcing them, and writing incoherently. On October 02 2024 01:05 KwarK wrote: The FEMA thing makes a little more sense if you're familiar with the broader conservative extended cinematic universe. You see in 2015 conservatives identified FEMA as a key part of Obama's plot to instill communism by making Americans go to Walmart. There was so much hysteria over the FEMA communist takeover that the Texas governor mobilized the national guard to observe Jade Helm military drills out of a fear that the military had formed a secret alliance with FEMA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA_camps_conspiracy_theory#History Is that the same CECU where they see Trump as Captain America, while Democrats and the rest of the world sees Trump as Homelander? | ||
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oBlade
United States5765 Posts
On October 02 2024 00:31 NewSunshine wrote: oBlade... What the actual fuck are you talking about? That you're not saying FEMA wants to implement communism, but that they want to instill equity, only you think equity is a dogwhistle for communism? You're saying FEMA wants to instill communism then, my dude. Equity means equality of outcomes, which is one of the key goals advanced by revolutionaries. But in the modern US outside of campus it's usually still somewhat taboo to just present explicitly as a communist. There are other phrases used to code for hard left. "Implementing communism" is what you would expect Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot to do rather than FEMA, which doesn't decide the form of government in any country. On October 02 2024 01:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: oBlade is literally fabricating quotes without sourcing them What? | ||
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KwarK
United States43219 Posts
On October 02 2024 01:09 oBlade wrote: Equity means equality of outcomes, which is one of the key goals advanced by revolutionaries. "Peace, land, and bread" is a Bolshevik slogan but that doesn't mean that bread has a secret agenda. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45048 Posts
Go back and read clarifying questions you haven't answered. | ||
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oBlade
United States5765 Posts
On October 02 2024 01:14 KwarK wrote: "Peace, land, and bread" is a Bolshevik slogan but that doesn't mean that bread has a secret agenda. While both phrases may be suspect, FEMA's heart are definitely closer to the right place than the Bolsheviks' heart was. On October 02 2024 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Go back and read clarifying questions you haven't answered. I don't know what you are talking about because I can't read your mind. If you're talking about FEMA's strategic plan, use your freedom and prosperity as a citizen of the US go to to one of your own government department's websites and read for yourself. Or open Google and search for it. Or even the first words "instill equity" because there is a flurry of fuss about this issue due to recent events. Your inaction is not my fabrication. | ||
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KwarK
United States43219 Posts
On October 02 2024 01:09 oBlade wrote: "Implementing communism" is what you would expect Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot to do rather than FEMA, which doesn't decide the form of government in any country. I agree with this, which is one of the reasons that I don't think FEMA has made a commitment to the seizure of the means of production. But it seems that you do which is why people are asking you about it. What does FEMA's declaration of communism as part of their mission statement mean to you in terms of its objectives? If their role is not the direct implementation of communism then what is their role as communists which, as I'm sure you'll recall, is an explicitly revolutionary ideology? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
But no, I understand the right wing playbook. Because y'all don't want diversity, equity, and inclusion, but you don't feel like you can say that, you first have to paint diversity, equity, and inclusion as an insidious mission statement by shadowy cabals who are looking to overthrow everything we hold near and dear. Then you have cover to say what you want, because actually you're not perpetuating bigotry, you're actually stopping communism. And then apparently, if you're oBlade, when people ask you what you mean, just say the opposite and move back and forth really fast, hoping people give up. | ||
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oBlade
United States5765 Posts
On October 02 2024 01:49 NewSunshine wrote: A "flurry of fuss" where, and by whom? Is this a Truth Social or 8chan thing? Are these the same people who regularly use the term "remigration"? It's my friend whose house is underwater and people in his community relying on the volunteer efforts of private helicopter and bush pilots, at least one of whom was threatened with arrest, and all the citizens of North Carolina wondering why the 82nd Airborne and 101st Airborne that are HQed at Fort Liberty haven't been sent to help when the 46th resident said they sent everything and there's no resources left. Want to know what FEMA spent $650 million on in 2024? You guessed it. Housing migrants. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45048 Posts
On October 02 2024 02:43 oBlade wrote: It's my friend whose house is underwater and people in his community relying on the volunteer efforts of private helicopter and bush pilots, at least one of whom was threatened with arrest, and all the citizens of North Carolina wondering why the 82nd Airborne and 101st Airborne that are HQed at Fort Liberty haven't been sent to help when the 46th resident said they sent everything and there's no resources left. Want to know what FEMA spent $650 million on in 2024? You guessed it. Housing migrants. Out of tens of billions of dollars, FEMA spent less than one billion dollars on homes for people who needed them? The horror! | ||
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Billyboy
1246 Posts
On October 02 2024 01:09 oBlade wrote: Equity means equality of outcomes, which is one of the key goals advanced by revolutionaries. But in the modern US outside of campus it's usually still somewhat taboo to just present explicitly as a communist. There are other phrases used to code for hard left. "Implementing communism" is what you would expect Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot to do rather than FEMA, which doesn't decide the form of government in any country. What? You have your definitions wrong. It is either the quality of being fair and impartial or the value of shares issued by a company. Equality would be closer to communism as it means having everything equal. Equity is about fairness usually linked to opportunity. Everyone regardless of political affiliation should be on board with equity. Most times it is used that no matter your back ground (race, wealth, gender) you have the same opportunity for success. If anything it is what capitalism is supposed to be. The only people who should be against equity are nepo babies and those super advantaged by the current system, again no matter its political affiliation. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On October 02 2024 02:43 oBlade wrote: It's my friend whose house is underwater and people in his community relying on the volunteer efforts of private helicopter and bush pilots, at least one of whom was threatened with arrest, and all the citizens of North Carolina wondering why the 82nd Airborne and 101st Airborne that are HQed at Fort Liberty haven't been sent to help when the 46th resident said they sent everything and there's no resources left. Want to know what FEMA spent $650 million on in 2024? You guessed it. Housing migrants. Not only is this a non-sequitir, and as DPB points out, not even that big a deal, but you said there was a "flurry of fuss", and that "your inaction is not my fabrication", as though you expected DPB to have the same information you did when you were talking out your ass. Now, when pressed, the source is your friend? You know that's still not a source, right? And even if it was, you still have to back up your claims and your quotes with your own sources. But no, we needed to know you had a friend that's really pissed at FEMA, or something. Look, I'm gonna level with you here. I don't care if we disagree, in fact I'm assuming that's pretty much a given on most issues. Can we start with a simple expectation that when you try to string two thoughts together, they actually fit together, instead of just being a jumble of shit? I know you like to run defense for Trump, but you don't have to fucking talk like him... | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
The intent is to support CBP in the safe, orderly and humane release of noncitizen migrants from short-term holding facilities. I see why we have a problem now. Heaven Forbid the USA spends even a dime to execute its migration policies competently. Guess we're just a bunch of commies now. | ||
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Falling
Canada11369 Posts
On October 02 2024 03:06 Billyboy wrote: You have your definitions wrong. It is either the quality of being fair and impartial or the value of shares issued by a company. Equality would be closer to communism as it means having everything equal. Equity is about fairness usually linked to opportunity. Everyone regardless of political affiliation should be on board with equity. Most times it is used that no matter your back ground (race, wealth, gender) you have the same opportunity for success. If anything it is what capitalism is supposed to be. The only people who should be against equity are nepo babies and those super advantaged by the current system, again no matter its political affiliation. I believe this is backwards. Equality means equal opportunity and is generally the thing that is sniffily dismissed by for instance DiAngelo's White Fragility. (Unless she also and her class of writers also have it backwards.) Whereas, the same book lauds equity which seems to describe an equality of outcome as if every job (or at least the more desirable ones) are not largely representative of the broader demographic of a given country then the assumption is there is some sort of ism at play whether it be sexism, racism, abelism, etc. | ||
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Billyboy
1246 Posts
On October 02 2024 05:53 Falling wrote: I believe this is backwards. Equality means equal opportunity and is generally the thing that is sniffily dismissed by for instance DiAngelo's White Fragility. (Unless she also and her class of writers also have it backwards.) Whereas, the same book lauds equity which seems to describe an equality of outcome as if every job (or at least the more desirable ones) are not largely representative of the broader demographic of a given country then the assumption is there is some sort of ism at play whether it be sexism, racism, abelism, etc. From dictionary.com Equality: the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities. Equity: The quality of being fair and impartial. Here are some quotes about the differences: Equality means each individual or group of people is given the same resources or opportunities. Equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances and allocates the exact resources and opportunities needed to reach an equal outcome. quality is one of the central principles of democracy and is based on the belief that all people should have the same opportunities to be successful and have a productive, enjoyable life. Equality is rooted in fairness since it is linked to another American ideal, that of a meritocracy. The idea of equality is key to the notion that everyone will be able to achieve based on their efforts and contributions to society instead of their status or position. Equality was particularly important during the civil rights era when nonwhites didn't have equal standing or treatment before the law. More recently there has been a debate about whether equality is enough and whether equity is a more important principle. Equity recognizes that everyone doesn't begin in the same place in society. Some people face adverse conditions and circumstances making it more challenging with the same effort to achieve the same goals. Equity advocates for those who may have been historically disadvantaged, making it difficult for them to be successful. What is “fair” as it relates to equity isn't a question of what is the same but rather the point from which a person begins. Equity takes into account historical and other factors in determining what is fair. Equity refers to fairness or justice in the way people are treated, and especially freedom from bias or favoritism, as in “governed according to the principle of equity.” Equality refers to the quality or state of having the same rights and opportunities, as in “women’s struggle for equality.” Equity recognizes each person has different circumstances and needs, meaning different groups of people need different resources and opportunities allocated to them in order to thrive. Equality, on the other hand, is giving everyone the exact same resources across the board, regardless of individual or groups of people’s actual needs or opportunities/resources already provided to them. That might just confuse the matter more, as from your example and even within mine there are some differences. If you were to give two people equal amounts of food on a shelf but only one could reach it, it would be equal but equitable. In more real life example someone in the the arctic is going to need more winter clothing than someone in Miami. Equality would give both the same, which is likely too much for the person in Miami and not enough for the person in Yellow Knife. A equitable solution would be to give both what they need given their different circumstances. Equity is much harder especially as things get more complicated, I would think getting to it is a goal with the understanding that it is a difficult and moving target. I do think that calling it a dog whistle for communism is really a bad take and I do think that most sensible left and right people would shoot for it. I think a similar take would come on something like schooling, and even more fluffy concepts like hard work. But I think their might be differences when it comes to capacity, and what I mean by that is someone on the left might want to account for talent and intelligence, whereas I think someone on the right would not. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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oBlade
United States5765 Posts
On October 02 2024 03:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Out of tens of billions of dollars, FEMA spent less than one billion dollars on homes for people who needed them? The horror! I mean, they ran out of money in August and are on a deficit now so there's that and citizens who need help would probably like some too. Florida showing leadership as usual by helping its neighbors. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45048 Posts
Thanks! Even though the vice presidential debate doesn't tend to be as influential as the presidential debates, I think tonight's debate could be really interesting. In particular, I think it'll be closer (in terms of who wins and who loses) than the last two debates of this election cycle (where Biden lost decisively to Trump, and Trump lost decisively to Harris). I'm going to give the advantage to Vance over Walz. Vance actually has a lot more experience with debating and with this kind of one-on-one showdown format. Vance is obviously socially inept and is way worse at energizing a crowd than Walz is, but there's no live audience for this debate. Additionally, Vance has been practicing his pro-Trump rhetoric for several years, whereas Walz has only practiced his defense of Harris's positions for a few months. And finally, Vance has been preemptively defined as weird and with a low favorability, so the only bar he needs to clear is appearing relatively normal. On the other hand, Walz has had more charisma and much higher favorability, so it'll be harder for him to exceed expectations in this more calm, serious setting. (Of course, I still hope that Walz wipes the floor with Vance.) I believe both of these YouTube videos below will be streaming and recording the vice presidential debate: | ||
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Introvert
United States4862 Posts
On October 02 2024 06:44 BlackJack wrote: NYC has said that it is poised to spend $12 billion on the migrant crisis through fiscal year 2025. That's just one city. Even that amount is not enough as they plead for additional funding from state and federal sources due to being "past the breaking point." I've posted in the past the anger NYC government has drawn from its citizens for some controversial ideas, such as attempting to turn vacant apartments in Harlem into a migrant shelter and using a high school as emergency shelter forcing students back into "remote learning." I was told that shipping migrants to Springfield was good for the locals, very strange how it's bad to ship them to big blue cities. | ||
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