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On July 12 2024 11:00 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2024 10:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 12 2024 10:13 micronesia wrote:
One interesting thing about this timing is that, should Biden drop out, a choice for who to run is being made after the opposing nominee is already known, rather than simultaneous with the GOP primary. In theory, that's an advantag. Except there's going to be a massive amount of infighting among the Democrats the moment he steps down. You have guys like Newsom waiting his turn in 2028 getting skipped over by Kamala Harris who let's be honest was put on as the VP ticket to shore up Biden's diversity on his presidential ticket. She was barely in her first term as Senator from California when she was appointed, she's skipping all kinds of political steps to get right at the foot of the White House. I don't expect this upcoming Democratic convention to be anything less than chaos. Obama didn't have the creds either. Your point? I think Newsom has a better chance until AOC gets going. But besides that, there is what? Whitmore? Not a very deep pool to choose from leading up to the election. Harris or Newsome. Pick your poison.
Are you serious right now? What's the difference? Obama won a Democratic primary, including defeating the heavily favored establishment candidate that had the backing of the DNC behind her.
There's a world of difference between what Obama pulled off and what Kamala Harris was appointed to.
I'd be all for letting Kamala Harris slug it out in a Democratic primary with the other candidates who could potentially take Biden's place if he drops out, but we don't have time for that. The election is in 4 months.
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View from Germany:
Harris only makes news when somebody calls her out as a diversity hire.
I guess that's about as bad as you can get for publicity.
But it's also very unfair, since she has actually accomplished quite a career. Again she would do a far better job than Trump, yet it's highly questionable if she could beat him in the presidential elections - since this is not a contest about competence.
Trumps adminstration was honestly as draining as covid and the russian attack on ukraine.
Constant campaigning, the only policy was to reduce taxation on rich people, and making poor people more miserable.
(Can't afford going abroad for an abortion...well sucks for you!)
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For proponents of the deep state conspiracy theory, former DHS Sec Jeh Johnson has reassured us on MSNBC that the presidency is an administration, not just one man, a team of people like Avril Haines, Sam Power, and Gina Raimondo. So rest assured everyone knows a vote for Biden is actually a vote for the famously competent figures that everyone knows well called Avril Haines, Sam Power, and Gina Raimondo. But there hasn't been an actual full cabinet meeting since October. So we continue to look for who's really running the show - we find his wife, his son the convicted felon and the smartest guy he knows in the White House, in meetings with him, helping him prep for speeches (and reacting with a poor poker face when he's in the audience seeing how the president does) - and also people now suggesting the DNC overthrow democracy by ignoring millions of primary voters and arranging a substitute nominee.
The best thing for the country might just be for Biden to resign tomorrow and allow Vice President Trump to assume office for the remainder of his term according to the constitution's rules for presidential succession.
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@oBlade
Well as Trump was president, all he did was having rallys and playing golf.
He didn't read any report that was more than a half page, he didn't listen to anybody and only did the helicopter rides and oh he liked signing stuff.
He spent half his presidency at Mar-A-Lago.
His main "official acts" was to fire one person from his staff/cabinet every week because he was fed up with them.
(The Apprentice - Westwing edition)
He signed off at 6 pm, demanding a burger and fries, and some diet coke to watch more TV.
I don't like strawman arguments .. but I guess Biden should just do that and be far more relaxed than he is right now.
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Netherlands21350 Posts
On July 12 2024 15:24 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2024 11:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Random thought: What if Democrats decided not to be super embarrassed by Biden's gaffes and just did what Republicans do, every time Trump messes up names and words? Just shrug it off and deflect? I think it's cringeworthy that Biden messed up Harris/Trump and Zelenskyy/Putin - even though he immediately caught his mistake and corrected himself - but Trump has confused Obama/Biden/Clinton countless times, Haley/Pelosi several times without even realizing it, Jeb/George, and one of his ex-wives with one of his rape victims. Maybe the double-standard isn't a great idea, and so maybe every time Biden loses his train of thought or says something silly, we should counter with twice as many reminders of Trump's cognitive glitches. And then we can add Project 2025 and fascism and Roe v. Wade, for good measure. This actually. Dems could have decided to look for another candidate day 1 past election day 2020. As long as "Biden cognitive decline" was just a Right-Wing slur, none of them moved. Now there is blood in the water and Dems/Media have a really hard time not got get in front of microphones shouting down Biden. I was shocked by this blunder - but so far I really don't have a doubt that Biden's administration is bajillion times more competent and fair than what every clown circus Trump will bring. Sadly Media AGAIN only cares about media performance - not substance. But okay, they are owned by Bezos, Murdoch and others.. so the post-capitalism wealth aristocracy that will just fuck off to space if things on earth get weird. But you can have that more competent administration with any Democrat, It doesnt need a declining old man to exist.
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Netherlands21350 Posts
On July 12 2024 11:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Random thought: What if Democrats decided not to be super embarrassed by Biden's gaffes and just did what Republicans do, every time Trump messes up names and words? Just shrug it off and deflect? I think it's cringeworthy that Biden messed up Harris/Trump and Zelenskyy/Putin - even though he immediately caught his mistake and corrected himself - but Trump has confused Obama/Biden/Clinton countless times, Haley/Pelosi several times without even realizing it, Jeb/George, and one of his ex-wives with one of his rape victims. Maybe the double-standard isn't a great idea, and so maybe every time Biden loses his train of thought or says something silly, we should counter with twice as many reminders of Trump's cognitive glitches. And then we can add Project 2025 and fascism and Roe v. Wade, for good measure. Because unlike the party of Trump the Democrats arnt a cult. They are able to criticise their party. And because America can and should do better.
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6pm is 2 hours later than Biden's alleged lucid window, Trump gets up quite early and still barely sleeps. Was he just practicing his penmanship or did he by chance sign anything that did something? Biden has spent 40% of his presidency on vacation, when he's not on vacation he can do approximately 1 thing a day at most according to reports and his own press secretary, and sometimes less than that, like when he takes a whole 7 days simply to lose one debate.
I don't know what the problem with hamburgers is supposed to be, a man has to eat, and View From Germany: if you didn't want people eating hamburgers, you shouldn't have invented them, right? And I'm also 90% sure a majority of the US, including some Republican states like Ohio, are as or more liberal on abortion than Germany, meaning firstly going abroad is not necessary, secondly going abroad wouldn't do you any good if the destination was Germany, and a state with a more liberal abortion law would be much closer.
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While definitely not a fan of Biden, I would say that Putin/Zelensky is overblown, both names come together so often, that such slip seems rather natural and could happen to anyone.
Also what oBlade said, people concerned that Trump destroy democracy, seem very happy to overthrow the results of primaries.
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I don't think there were democrats around that were very eager to challenge Biden..right?
@oBlade
At least Biden didn't tour his adminstration through his own hotels and clubs on his 'vacation'.
Trump booked 'Trump' any chance he got. Also he rented his "Home" as residence to spent the winter as president.
What a cheap ass.
Edit:
Putin/Selensky is really overblown. If you'd just be able to read the transcript in tomorrow's newspaper it wouldn't be a big deal.
Biden:
"...President Putin
President Putin? He is gonna beat Putin, President Selensky, I am so focused on beating putin, got to worry about it...
Mr President ...."
Selenskiy:
"*Laughing*, I am better"
Biden:
"You are a hell of a lot better"
And frankly that's what I want to hear from a POTUS as european.
Trump meanwhile receives Victor Orban at Maralago... the famous shitbag from hungary is directly flying in with new instructions from moscow.
How the hell did the conservatives in the US became suckers for an actual former KGB-Agent leading Russia?
"He strong man" makes Magats seem more like troglodytes.
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On July 12 2024 16:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
View from Germany:
Harris only makes news when somebody calls her out as a diversity hire.
I guess that's about as bad as you can get for publicity.
But it's also very unfair, since she has actually accomplished quite a career. Again she would do a far better job than Trump, yet it's highly questionable if she could beat him in the presidential elections - since this is not a contest about competence.
Trumps adminstration was honestly as draining as covid and the russian attack on ukraine.
Constant campaigning, the only policy was to reduce taxation on rich people, and making poor people more miserable.
(Can't afford going abroad for an abortion...well sucks for you!)
You guys are missing the point. Of course she'd do a better job than Trump. ANY Democrat would do a better job than Trump for the sheer fact that you aren't handing the keys of the White House and the ability to appoint judges over to the religious right.
The point is that no one elected Kamala Harris to the office of President of the United States. She was appointed to that position. Why should she get the nomination at the convention if Biden drops out without having a primary? That simple question is going to cause infighting at the convention.
This entire debacle is going to cause infighting at the convention. If the DNC had any brains at all (which all evidence seems to point to the contrary) they would get out in front of this now, either put her at the head of the ticket before the convention so that if she polls well she can carry the convention or start figuring out how to do a lightning round of a Democratic primary before the general election.
Leaving thing as they are up to the convention is just begging for a complete meltdown.
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On July 12 2024 16:38 KT_Elwood wrote:
@oBlade
Well as Trump was president, all he did was having rallys and playing golf.
He didn't read any report that was more than a half page, he didn't listen to anybody and only did the helicopter rides and oh he liked signing stuff.
He spent half his presidency at Mar-A-Lago.
His main "official acts" was to fire one person from his staff/cabinet every week because he was fed up with them.
(The Apprentice - Westwing edition)
He signed off at 6 pm, demanding a burger and fries, and some diet coke to watch more TV.
I don't like strawman arguments .. but I guess Biden should just do that and be far more relaxed than he is right now.
You gotta admit, spending all his time golfing, vacationing and eating hamburgers and still ensuring the camps get built so we can round up GH and his ilk is pretty efficient multitasking.
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GH is pretty much having main character syndrom about being target for his political views.
While in fact nobody likes a smartass and if he/them happens to be black in a racist neighbourhood than it's plain old racism that will get him - not a socialist witchhunt.
For a socialist witchhunt, the troglodyte Magats would need to understand that socialist doesn't mean blue hair.
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On July 12 2024 19:48 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2024 16:38 KT_Elwood wrote:
@oBlade
Well as Trump was president, all he did was having rallys and playing golf.
He didn't read any report that was more than a half page, he didn't listen to anybody and only did the helicopter rides and oh he liked signing stuff.
He spent half his presidency at Mar-A-Lago.
His main "official acts" was to fire one person from his staff/cabinet every week because he was fed up with them.
(The Apprentice - Westwing edition)
He signed off at 6 pm, demanding a burger and fries, and some diet coke to watch more TV.
I don't like strawman arguments .. but I guess Biden should just do that and be far more relaxed than he is right now.
You gotta admit, spending all his time golfing, vacationing and eating hamburgers and still ensuring the camps get built so we can round up GH and his ilk is pretty efficient multitasking.
If the camp gets built as well as the Mexico border wall was, GH and his ilk have very little to worry about...
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That's another question that irks me.
In germany many migrants that plead for asylum - even "illegal" ones that pass 12 other countries to get here - will likely get
- an apartment/flat paid for + heating costs covered
- healthcare covered
- Paid about 550€/monthly to cover expenses
- Free Kindergarten/School for children
- Once having a permit to stay here, can fly in their family
For ukrainians that's completely normal, they also receive a working permit immediately.
(Which I think you can be rather proud of as a german, given our history in ukraine..)
Other nationalities have to advance through the asylum-Process and then will be treated equally.
While the expenses for this immigration are dwarfed by the public expenses for pensioners and "domestic" social costs... they are undeniably there.
But the argument is "We give them money to live among the german society, so nobody has to see people living in the streets, criminal behavior is kept at bay, and policing starving homlesspeople would be even more expensive"
My understanding is, that "illegal immigrants" to the US are basicly people completely giving up their human rights to do hard labour and not getting paid anything by the taxpayer. But rather clean, construct, harvest ..
Why the heck do americans get so worked up about them?
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KT_Elwood can You please stop adding so many "end of line" signs at the end of Your posts? This really disrupts the reading and just looks ugly.
Thank You in advance.
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On July 12 2024 19:44 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2024 16:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
View from Germany:
Harris only makes news when somebody calls her out as a diversity hire.
I guess that's about as bad as you can get for publicity.
But it's also very unfair, since she has actually accomplished quite a career. Again she would do a far better job than Trump, yet it's highly questionable if she could beat him in the presidential elections - since this is not a contest about competence.
Trumps adminstration was honestly as draining as covid and the russian attack on ukraine.
Constant campaigning, the only policy was to reduce taxation on rich people, and making poor people more miserable.
(Can't afford going abroad for an abortion...well sucks for you!)
You guys are missing the point. Of course she'd do a better job than Trump. ANY Democrat would do a better job than Trump for the sheer fact that you aren't handing the keys of the White House and the ability to appoint judges over to the religious right. The point is that no one elected Kamala Harris to the office of President of the United States. She was appointed to that position. Why should she get the nomination at the convention if Biden drops out without having a primary? That simple question is going to cause infighting at the convention. This entire debacle is going to cause infighting at the convention. If the DNC had any brains at all (which all evidence seems to point to the contrary) they would get out in front of this now, either put her at the head of the ticket before the convention so that if she polls well she can carry the convention or start figuring out how to do a lightning round of a Democratic primary before the general election. Leaving thing as they are up to the convention is just begging for a complete meltdown. Really have to emphasize that the convention in Chicago starting Aug 19th is political theatre. The actual voting for the nominee is happening some time between July 21st and Aug 7th through a virtual roll call online.
According to convention nomination talking points circulated by the Democratic National Committee last week, the electronic roll call vote will happen by August 7, but no decisions have been made on the format or timing of the vote. www.cnn.com
Chicago is going to be a mess, but the Dems will (presuming they get through their zoom call) have an official nominee before it starts, so it's not going to be a 1968 situation. Whatever version of that Dems are going to go through is going to have to happen in back rooms and the media over the next few weeks and maybe over a chaotic zoom call.
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On July 12 2024 15:35 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2024 11:00 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 12 2024 10:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 12 2024 10:13 micronesia wrote:
One interesting thing about this timing is that, should Biden drop out, a choice for who to run is being made after the opposing nominee is already known, rather than simultaneous with the GOP primary. In theory, that's an advantag. Except there's going to be a massive amount of infighting among the Democrats the moment he steps down. You have guys like Newsom waiting his turn in 2028 getting skipped over by Kamala Harris who let's be honest was put on as the VP ticket to shore up Biden's diversity on his presidential ticket. She was barely in her first term as Senator from California when she was appointed, she's skipping all kinds of political steps to get right at the foot of the White House. I don't expect this upcoming Democratic convention to be anything less than chaos. Obama didn't have the creds either. Your point? I think Newsom has a better chance until AOC gets going. But besides that, there is what? Whitmore? Not a very deep pool to choose from leading up to the election. Harris or Newsome. Pick your poison. Are you serious right now? What's the difference? Obama won a Democratic primary, including defeating the heavily favored establishment candidate that had the backing of the DNC behind her. There's a world of difference between what Obama pulled off and what Kamala Harris was appointed to. I'd be all for letting Kamala Harris slug it out in a Democratic primary with the other candidates who could potentially take Biden's place if he drops out, but we don't have time for that. The election is in 4 months.
I am serious. Obama rode the wave of the unpopularity and the tiredness of Bush/war and that was a landslide. His demeanor and articulation and actual solid platform just propelled him even further. His DNC speech was the icing on the cake that got him through the primary. There really wasn't any chance he would lose, if truth be told.
Harris tried to come after a shitty trump admin and admittedly, she didn't have the chops to be on that stage with about 90% of the contestants. Now she's VP for "reasons" that we can all admit are pretty vacuous and doesn't pass the smell test when scrutinized. That she's the VP gives her more weight to throw around but also double edged. She, like Obama, lacks the experience needed at face value. But having the entirety of a competent DNC behind her (plus an already established admin in place), makes this a transition that shouldn't change too much, especially on policy. It'll be another Biden admin in every sense of the word. We're just changin figureheads.
That's what I'm getting at.
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Northern Ireland23781 Posts
On July 12 2024 11:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Random thought: What if Democrats decided not to be super embarrassed by Biden's gaffes and just did what Republicans do, every time Trump messes up names and words? Just shrug it off and deflect? I think it's cringeworthy that Biden messed up Harris/Trump and Zelenskyy/Putin - even though he immediately caught his mistake and corrected himself - but Trump has confused Obama/Biden/Clinton countless times, Haley/Pelosi several times without even realizing it, Jeb/George, and one of his ex-wives with one of his rape victims. Maybe the double-standard isn't a great idea, and so maybe every time Biden loses his train of thought or says something silly, we should counter with twice as many reminders of Trump's cognitive glitches. And then we can add Project 2025 and fascism and Roe v. Wade, for good measure.
This hasn’t really worked in what, 8 years? Whatever secret sauce Trump has tapped into doesn’t seem something others can easily tap into, even amongst other Republicans
It’s like when the archetypal ‘nice guy’, fed up doing badly with the ladies decides to emulate the charming bastard types they perceive as having much more success. This invariably fails as it isn’t their natural comfort zone, and if being a bit of a bastard is what x lady is looking for, well there’s folks who are full-time bastards by temperament so why go for someone LARPing as one?
Aside from not finding a race to the bottom particularly desirous, I’m also sceptical it would even work either. Some may disagree whether it’s merited or not, but I think a pretty big political motivator for many from the centre leftwards is the idea that they occupy some kind of moral high ground.
If you abandon that pretence I imagine it’s pretty de-motivating and may actively backfire. I imagine if you had the magic wand folks would rather return to a more sensible politics where Trump’s many foibles would be a disqualification of any kind of success than adopt them.
I’m still obviously hoping that Biden, or whoever steps in can pull this one off as Trump is so, so transparently unfit for political office, but tactically I don’t think taking a leaf out of his book is the way to go about that end result.
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I appreciate all the responses to my "random thought" - I think you're all correct that lowering ourselves down to the same level of denial and whataboutism (of ignoring Biden's gaffes, because it seems to work when Republicans do it for Trump) is not the best tactic for winning the election.
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On July 12 2024 22:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I appreciate all the responses to my "random thought" - I think you're all correct that lowering ourselves down to the same level of denial and whataboutism (of ignoring Biden's gaffes, because it seems to work when Republicans do it for Trump) is not the best tactic for winning the election.
If it's any consolation, Biden is trying his hardest to force Democrats to do it anyway.
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EPT
