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On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked ---
Why did this post get banned? It was one of the best things ive read post the 6-3 decision.
i'm genuinely feeling dread right now as an American. i cannot believe that in a decent economy, no ongoing war, we are about to end our democracy. 90% of Americans dont even realize how close we are, it feels surreal. That one party could get so radicalized within the span of 15 years, and its not even the full party, its 30% of MAGA / AF.
I talked to one of my family members who is far more intelligent and successful in life than I will ever be, and nearly word for word just spouted Fox/WSJ opinion piece talking points.
"look the amount of lawfare against trump and the gop meant that the supreme court had to step in and lay the law down"
like i wonder, is it more likely that the Democrats are doing lawfare against republicans and zero whistleblowers are coming out to warn the public... or that if a conman ever got into office, they would hire conmen and maybe some of them would get caught?
its fascism based on all vibes, theres not even a tangible threat poised to America First, its like "woke" and uh, culture is moving beyond church, god and guns?
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On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:Why did this post get banned?
It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages.
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On July 03 2024 09:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 08:46 BlackJack wrote:On July 03 2024 08:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 07:45 BlackJack wrote:On July 03 2024 05:27 Gorsameth wrote:On July 03 2024 05:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 04:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 04:48 Gorsameth wrote:On July 03 2024 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]He could also do that last month, its just as legal now as it was then (aka entirely not)
replacing justices is not a Presidential act while they are alive and not stepped down.
He would have to have the military kill them, and I thought we agreed he wasn't going to do that.
You're still not grasping what the Supreme Court did to the power of the President. But you're right that he can easily order the military to make sure there are vacancies to fill. The President is immune to prosecution while conducting official acts. Replacing a sitting judge is not an official act, it is not within the power of the President at all. This is also why it doesn't help Trump, other then buy time, because keeping documents after his Presidency ended is not an official Presidential act, neither is organising a different election result. + Show Spoiler +I agree that replacing a sitting judge is not an official act, but I worry that the Supreme Court would correctly make that call if Biden tried it, but then deceptively say it's acceptable if Trump tried it. Biden = Personal = No; Trump = Official = Yes. Clearly, the Supreme Court would be more than open to creating double standards where Biden is held to normal (or even unfairly harsh) levels of accountability, whereas they might also let Trump slide on the same (or even worse) actions.
I feel like the Supreme Court could/would have committed that unfair double standard even before the recent "official vs. personal" formal ruling, but I think this ruling highlights the conservative Justices' perspective that they're eager to do it, if given the opportunity, and interested in absolving Trump in every way possible.
Also, unfortunately, even if Biden does everything in his power to save democracy from the Supreme Court and from Donald Trump, I still don't see it reflecting positively on him through polling. If he does everything in his power, he doesn't need positive polling. On July 03 2024 05:05 Gorsameth wrote:On July 03 2024 05:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 04:48 Gorsameth wrote:On July 03 2024 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
You're still not grasping what the Supreme Court did to the power of the President. But you're right that he can easily order the military to make sure there are vacancies to fill. The President is immune to prosecution while conducting official acts. Replacing a sitting judge is not an official act, it is not within the power of the President at all. This is also why it doesn't help Trump, other then buy time, because keeping documents after his Presidency ended is not an official Presidential act, neither is organising a different election result. You don't get it. Ordering the military is unambiguously an official act. So Biden/Trump if he wins, can order them to do whatever he wants( Trump has already floated dragging Congress and others into military tribunals), and then start having them shot for treason if they refuse. If he doesn't want to lose control to a military coup though, he can't disregard and strongarm the military willy nilly. He's gotta finesse the situation some for sure. I understand what you're trying to argue, but you really and truly are not understanding the magnitude of this SCOTUS decision. I says Biden could have Trump and SCOTUS assassinated when the decision came through, I know. But I thought we established that Biden wasn't going to do that, and what he could do instead. And you offered that he could push through democratic legislation, which he can't. Because the President does not write laws. At best he can do some Executive Orders that will inevitably get challenged so if you go that route your better off waiting for closer to the actual election. You misunderstood the conversation as well then. I was talking about what Biden could do while you and Kwark are trying to figure out what he is or might be willing to do that could work and coming up empty handed. On July 03 2024 01:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 01:40 KwarK wrote:On July 03 2024 01:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 01:18 KwarK wrote:On July 03 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
You mean "using his legal capacities"?
Worse than handing those "legal capacities" over to Trump? Obviously not. Why is it obvious to you that nothing bad would result from ending democracy in the US? It’s not obvious to me. Is it possible you’re overlooking something? First, I'm certainly and obviously not claiming "nothing bad would result from ending democracy". Second, I clarified Biden wouldn't be "ending democracy" but "using his legal capacities within that democracy" Lastly, I said Biden using his legal capacities to do something massively popular would be less worse than handing the same legal capacities/power to Trump to do as he pleases with. You're too intelligent for you to be so blatantly strawmanning without doing it on purpose. What exactly is it that you're proposing Biden do to prevent the people electing Trump without ending democracy? To avoid me inadvertently strawmanning you by assuming your plan please make your plan specific. Implement the most popular policy/policies his team has/can come up with that Republican politicians have prevented, ideally something that also has at least a bare majority of independent/Republican (voters') support. Democrats purportedly have a long list of popular legislation dating back to the Obama admin that would have passed without McConnell blocking it from being voted on that they haven't really tapped since Republicans lost the Senate. Maybe there's some policies there he could implement. Your exact answer. So your answer is to do something he doesn't have the power to do. (the SCOTUS changed nothing of that) If your answer to what he should do is to kill scotus then say that. You didn't. It's a waste of time. GH is never going to tell you exactly what he thinks Biden should do. Part of the charade is pretending like he has all the answers without ever providing any answers because they would be correctly scrutinized for being stupid. He's basically got the whole panoply of options available to the US military to encourage people to do what the US president wants them to, and if he doesn't use it, Trump will. It's that simple. "Hey Seal Team Six can you take care of these people holding up our progress?" "No. We're not going to perform any extrajudicial killings and also we're going to let the NYTimes know that you've asked us to do that. Sounds like a great way to hand Trump the election. Biden should probably make sure he finds some people that agree with him that Trump is an existential threat to the US/democracy if he's going to pursue that route then..
Or…. And hear me out… maybe he should just not do that cause it’s a dumb idea
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On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages.
PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban?
as for Biden, I think he should do something cartoonishly out there to showcase how idiotic the ruling is, nothing dangerous, but just like, hey we cant have this for the next guy or gal.
but then again, in my mind he needs to step down for the good of the country and we get Newsome or Whitmer or even Kamala.
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On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban?
Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage.
I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though.
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On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:
like i wonder, is it more likely that the Democrats are doing lawfare against republicans and zero whistleblowers are coming out to warn the public... or that if a conman ever got into office, they would hire conmen and maybe some of them would get caught?
Pretty much everyone acknowledges that if Trump were not seeking reelection they would not have bothered with the hush money case. Andrew Cuomo gave that same opinion and he’s literally the former attorney General or New York and a Democrat.
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United States24690 Posts
On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:
as for Biden, I think he should do something cartoonishly out there to showcase how idiotic the ruling is, nothing dangerous, but just like, hey we cant have this for the next guy or gal.
Biden should make a "white house official brokerage account to raise funds for the us treasury" brokerage account and start insider trading like crazy, tweeting all the while after each realized gain. Then, on the last day of his presidency, he should, as president, cut a check for 99% of the account value to the person who did most of the actual labor maintaining the account (presumably, Joe Biden). Immune from criminal prosecution.
edit: I worry a bit about Andrew Cuomo's credibility at this point.
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Canada11355 Posts
Try nearly 30 accounts over the last 12 hours, all copy-pasting the exact same message.
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On July 03 2024 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban? Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage. I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though.
Based on the first round of polls Michelle Obama is the best option.
Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup.
www.reuters.com
Harris is the next best being within the margin of error at least.
Seeming increasingly clear Biden is out, but Democrats have no idea how they are going to unite behind anyone other than Biden. Michelle also really doesn't want to do it, but she'd totally do it if she could make Hillary speak at her Inauguration and then like after a week/month/year of doing fun president stuff she just gave it to her VP.
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Northern Ireland25486 Posts
On July 03 2024 12:52 Acontius wrote:
Nuked
Dude/dudette it’s really not that hard to avoid getting nuked, basic civility tends to do the trick.
It’s a shame as I get a bit out of some of your posts, least the ones I get to in time, but the delightful combo of arrogance and abrasiveness are getting in the way of it.
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On July 03 2024 12:34 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban? Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage. I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though. Based on the first round of polls Michelle Obama is the best option. Show nested quote +Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. www.reuters.comHarris is the next best being within the margin of error at least. Seeming increasingly clear Biden is out, but Democrats have no idea how they are going to unite behind anyone other than Biden. Michelle also really doesn't want to do it, but she'd totally do it if she could make Hillary speak at her Inauguration and then like after a week/month/year of doing fun president stuff she just gave it to her VP.
I disagree. Your article says "The two-day poll found that both Trump, 78, and Biden, 81, maintain the support of 40% of registered voters, suggesting that Biden has not lost ground since the debate." The other polls I previously posted indicate that too. Biden staying in the race might not be the best move, and I agree with you that he needs to do better and not just stay exactly where he's been, but when people say "I think Biden should be replaced but I'd still vote for him if he stays in the race", it doesn't really light a fire under his ass to step aside.
I don't think Michelle Obama will change her mind about not running, but it would be interesting if she does. I like her chances and appeal more than Kamala Harris.
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On July 03 2024 13:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 12:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban? Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage. I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though. Based on the first round of polls Michelle Obama is the best option. Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. www.reuters.comHarris is the next best being within the margin of error at least. Seeming increasingly clear Biden is out, but Democrats have no idea how they are going to unite behind anyone other than Biden. Michelle also really doesn't want to do it, but she'd totally do it if she could make Hillary speak at her Inauguration and then like after a week/month/year of doing fun president stuff she just gave it to her VP. I disagree. Your article says "The two-day poll found that both Trump, 78, and Biden, 81, maintain the support of 40% of registered voters, suggesting that Biden has not lost ground since the debate." The other polls I previously posted indicate that too. Biden staying in the race might not be the best move, and I agree with you that he needs to do better and not just stay exactly where he's been, but when people say "I think Biden should be replaced but I'd still vote for him if he stays in the race", it doesn't really light a fire under his ass to step aside. I don't think Michelle Obama will change her mind about not running, but it would be interesting if she does. I like her chances and appeal more than Kamala Harris.
The article was for the poll, the assessment about it increasingly looking like Biden's out is more about his inability to even reach out to top lawmakers to reassure them, doing 1 pre-recorded interview a week from now, increasingly public talk about how to replace him, etc...
Democrats may conclude they don't have a choice but to go with Biden even if they have to full-on Weekend at Bernies him because of fundraising and infrastructure stuff among everything else. But a lot of Democrats want Biden gone.
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On July 03 2024 13:32 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 13:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban? Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage. I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though. Based on the first round of polls Michelle Obama is the best option. Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. www.reuters.comHarris is the next best being within the margin of error at least. Seeming increasingly clear Biden is out, but Democrats have no idea how they are going to unite behind anyone other than Biden. Michelle also really doesn't want to do it, but she'd totally do it if she could make Hillary speak at her Inauguration and then like after a week/month/year of doing fun president stuff she just gave it to her VP. I disagree. Your article says "The two-day poll found that both Trump, 78, and Biden, 81, maintain the support of 40% of registered voters, suggesting that Biden has not lost ground since the debate." The other polls I previously posted indicate that too. Biden staying in the race might not be the best move, and I agree with you that he needs to do better and not just stay exactly where he's been, but when people say "I think Biden should be replaced but I'd still vote for him if he stays in the race", it doesn't really light a fire under his ass to step aside. I don't think Michelle Obama will change her mind about not running, but it would be interesting if she does. I like her chances and appeal more than Kamala Harris. The article was for the poll, the assessment about it increasingly looking like Biden's out is more about his inability to even reach out to top lawmakers to reassure them, doing 1 pre-recorded interview a week from now, increasingly public talk about how to replace him, etc... Democrats may conclude they don't have a choice but to go with Biden even if they have to full-on Weekend at Bernies him because of fundraising and infrastructure stuff among everything else. But a lot of Democrats want Biden gone.
He did a rally the day after the debate, and it went fine. He definitely needs to do more of those.
I agree with you that a lot of Democrats want Biden gone. I think the best way for Joe to be convinced to step away would be if Jill, Barack, and Michelle have a very tactful, careful, heart-to-heart with him. Otherwise, I think he'll stay unless his polling tanks really soon, which seems unlikely.
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On July 03 2024 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 13:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 13:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban? Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage. I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though. Based on the first round of polls Michelle Obama is the best option. Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. www.reuters.comHarris is the next best being within the margin of error at least. Seeming increasingly clear Biden is out, but Democrats have no idea how they are going to unite behind anyone other than Biden. Michelle also really doesn't want to do it, but she'd totally do it if she could make Hillary speak at her Inauguration and then like after a week/month/year of doing fun president stuff she just gave it to her VP. I disagree. Your article says "The two-day poll found that both Trump, 78, and Biden, 81, maintain the support of 40% of registered voters, suggesting that Biden has not lost ground since the debate." The other polls I previously posted indicate that too. Biden staying in the race might not be the best move, and I agree with you that he needs to do better and not just stay exactly where he's been, but when people say "I think Biden should be replaced but I'd still vote for him if he stays in the race", it doesn't really light a fire under his ass to step aside. I don't think Michelle Obama will change her mind about not running, but it would be interesting if she does. I like her chances and appeal more than Kamala Harris. The article was for the poll, the assessment about it increasingly looking like Biden's out is more about his inability to even reach out to top lawmakers to reassure them, doing 1 pre-recorded interview a week from now, increasingly public talk about how to replace him, etc... Democrats may conclude they don't have a choice but to go with Biden even if they have to full-on Weekend at Bernies him because of fundraising and infrastructure stuff among everything else. But a lot of Democrats want Biden gone. I agree with you that a lot of Democrats want Biden gone. I think the best way for Joe to be convinced to step away would be if Jill, Barack, and Michelle have a very tactful, careful, heart-to-heart with him. Otherwise, I think he'll stay unless his polling tanks really soon, which seems unlikely. Someone's gotta get him to do it. He clearly doesn't have the capacity to salvage this (or probably be president) with as little as he's been out and basically doing nothing unscripted.
A brief off-script moment at a fundraiser explains why.
President Joe Biden has blamed his poor debate performance last week on jet lag, telling reporters that he "wasn't very smart" for "travelling around the world a couple of times" before the debate.
"I didn’t listen to my staff... and then I nearly fell asleep on stage,” he said.
Mr Biden, 81, last returned from travel on 15 June, nearly two weeks ahead of the 27 June debate.
The New York Times, citing an unnamed source familiar with Mr Biden's schedule, reported on Tuesday that his days began at 11:00 each morning and that he was given time each day to nap.
The newspaper also reported that he was so exhausted from his travel that his debate preparations were cut short by two days to give him time to rest at his beach house in Delaware.
www.bbc.com
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On July 03 2024 13:58 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 13:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 13:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 03 2024 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:11 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 12:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2024 12:02 Husyelt wrote:On July 03 2024 11:07 Aconteus wrote:
--- Nuked --- Why did this post get banned? It's a PBU troll, over and over again. Check the last few pages. PBU troll? were they just relogging in with a new account to avoid a proper ban? Dozens of times, yeah. Don't engage. I agree with most of your last two posts btw. I'm not sure if Newsom is a better call than Biden, though. Based on the first round of polls Michelle Obama is the best option. Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. www.reuters.comHarris is the next best being within the margin of error at least. Seeming increasingly clear Biden is out, but Democrats have no idea how they are going to unite behind anyone other than Biden. Michelle also really doesn't want to do it, but she'd totally do it if she could make Hillary speak at her Inauguration and then like after a week/month/year of doing fun president stuff she just gave it to her VP. I disagree. Your article says "The two-day poll found that both Trump, 78, and Biden, 81, maintain the support of 40% of registered voters, suggesting that Biden has not lost ground since the debate." The other polls I previously posted indicate that too. Biden staying in the race might not be the best move, and I agree with you that he needs to do better and not just stay exactly where he's been, but when people say "I think Biden should be replaced but I'd still vote for him if he stays in the race", it doesn't really light a fire under his ass to step aside. I don't think Michelle Obama will change her mind about not running, but it would be interesting if she does. I like her chances and appeal more than Kamala Harris. The article was for the poll, the assessment about it increasingly looking like Biden's out is more about his inability to even reach out to top lawmakers to reassure them, doing 1 pre-recorded interview a week from now, increasingly public talk about how to replace him, etc... Democrats may conclude they don't have a choice but to go with Biden even if they have to full-on Weekend at Bernies him because of fundraising and infrastructure stuff among everything else. But a lot of Democrats want Biden gone. I agree with you that a lot of Democrats want Biden gone. I think the best way for Joe to be convinced to step away would be if Jill, Barack, and Michelle have a very tactful, careful, heart-to-heart with him. Otherwise, I think he'll stay unless his polling tanks really soon, which seems unlikely. Someone's gotta get him to do it. He clearly doesn't have the capacity to salvage this (or probably be president) with as little as he's been out and basically doing nothing unscripted. A brief off-script moment at a fundraiser explains why. Show nested quote +President Joe Biden has blamed his poor debate performance last week on jet lag, telling reporters that he "wasn't very smart" for "travelling around the world a couple of times" before the debate.
"I didn’t listen to my staff... and then I nearly fell asleep on stage,” he said.
Mr Biden, 81, last returned from travel on 15 June, nearly two weeks ahead of the 27 June debate.
The New York Times, citing an unnamed source familiar with Mr Biden's schedule, reported on Tuesday that his days began at 11:00 each morning and that he was given time each day to nap.
The newspaper also reported that he was so exhausted from his travel that his debate preparations were cut short by two days to give him time to rest at his beach house in Delaware. www.bbc.com
Yeah I think blaming jet lag, exhaustion, and a cold aren't going to make swing voters feel any better about Biden's age and state of mind. Making those kinds of excuses for a bad debate performance definitely isn't the same as successfully delivering a good debate performance.
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EPT
