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On March 18 2024 07:52 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2024 07:39 Sermokala wrote:On March 18 2024 06:57 BlackJack wrote:On March 18 2024 06:05 Gorsameth wrote:
You keep trying to imply Biden can't speak in full sentences.
I thought we dispelled that myth with the State of the Union. There's a difference between giving a once-a-year prepared speech that you have plenty of time to rehearse for than being on the campaign trail, answering questions and speaking off-script. Let's not pretend this is some hot take just because it's coming from me. It's a widely held opinion that Biden lacks the mental sharpness for another term. If you think that's untrue why don't you think his advisers do more to put him front and center to prove otherwise? Why do they decline interviews and press conferences? Why won't they commit to debates? Seems like his advisers agree more with me. Can you commit to us here that you think trump has more mental sharpness than biden? Just want to save it for when the dimentia gets even more out of control. Trump clearly has more mental sharpness right now than Biden. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by getting this on the record. You know that you can't rate the truthfulness of past statements based on some changes that may or may not happen in the future, right?
Just wanted a snapshot of your abilility to judge mental sharpness. Thats a big yikes though how nervous you are to how that will age. I know we're conditioned to trumps middle school level speech but even recently hes gone downhill. Forgetting who is president who was speaker while he was president and failling to get near pronounce the names of nearby nations is bad.
The guy is clearly suffering from dimentia with how he leans forward and struggles to walk at times. Memory loss is one thing but loseing the ability to communicate is not something you should be looking past in the name of partisanship.
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Funny how people can watch the same clip of Trump and come to completely opposite conclusions lol. If humans disagree this much all the time, I'm starting to think Putin getting 88% of the votes is complete bullshit? (I guess it's still better than China and North Korea's ONE HUNDO PERCENT bs numbers, so maybe I should give Kremlin some credit for their sorry ass attempt at subtlety. F+, try harder next time.)
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So, according to the guardian, Trump is unable to come up with the $454m bond in his civil fraud case.
Donald Trump has been unable to post a bond covering the full amount of his $454m New York civil fraud judgment against him, his lawyers said in a court filing.
The filing on Monday states that obtaining a bond has proven to be “a practical impossibility”, adding that “diligent” efforts made to secure a bond have included “approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers” and “countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world.”
These efforts have proven that “obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount” of the judgment “is not possible under the circumstances presented,” the filing states.
With interest, Trump owes $456.8m. In all, he and co-defendants including his company and top executives owe $467.3m, according to AP. To obtain a bond, they would be required to post collateral worth $557m, Trump’s lawyers said.
What does that mean in terms of consequences, legally speaking? I am not versed in how this works. Does that mean that he goes to jail? Has to file for bankruptcy?
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On March 19 2024 02:40 EnDeR_ wrote:So, according to the guardian, Trump is unable to come up with the $454m bond in his civil fraud case. Show nested quote +Donald Trump has been unable to post a bond covering the full amount of his $454m New York civil fraud judgment against him, his lawyers said in a court filing.
The filing on Monday states that obtaining a bond has proven to be “a practical impossibility”, adding that “diligent” efforts made to secure a bond have included “approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers” and “countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world.”
These efforts have proven that “obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount” of the judgment “is not possible under the circumstances presented,” the filing states.
With interest, Trump owes $456.8m. In all, he and co-defendants including his company and top executives owe $467.3m, according to AP. To obtain a bond, they would be required to post collateral worth $557m, Trump’s lawyers said. What does that mean in terms of consequences, legally speaking? I am not versed in how this works. Does that mean that he goes to jail? Has to file for bankruptcy?
IIRC the court can then start seizing his assets and selling them off until the fine is paid. Anyone with existing interests in the property gets paid out first and then the court, so if he's already up to his eyeballs in debt, there's a fair chance that selling off all his buildings doesn't get enough money to pay the fine. It'll be fun to watch happen for sure, grab some popcorn.
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On March 19 2024 02:40 EnDeR_ wrote:So, according to the guardian, Trump is unable to come up with the $454m bond in his civil fraud case. Show nested quote +Donald Trump has been unable to post a bond covering the full amount of his $454m New York civil fraud judgment against him, his lawyers said in a court filing.
The filing on Monday states that obtaining a bond has proven to be “a practical impossibility”, adding that “diligent” efforts made to secure a bond have included “approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers” and “countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world.”
These efforts have proven that “obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount” of the judgment “is not possible under the circumstances presented,” the filing states.
With interest, Trump owes $456.8m. In all, he and co-defendants including his company and top executives owe $467.3m, according to AP. To obtain a bond, they would be required to post collateral worth $557m, Trump’s lawyers said. What does that mean in terms of consequences, legally speaking? I am not versed in how this works. Does that mean that he goes to jail? Has to file for bankruptcy? If he doesn't post the money the New York Attorney general gets to seize assets to recover the money owned. Stuff like Trump Tower.
He doesn't have to declare bankruptcy because he has enough wealth. The problem is, presumably, that he doesn't have half a billion in cash. Its all tied up in buildings, golf courses, ect and he might have trouble finding a company/bank willing to lend the money with his properties as collateral considering the fine is for lying about the worth of his properties.
I would still expect him to come up with the money last minute (he still has a week) for the 90 million he had to post for the Caroll case he was also huffing and puffing about how unfair it was and if he couldn't be allowed to ignore it.
I'm sure there is some company/country somewhere that is willing to burn half a bil to buy a potential future President.
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United States43015 Posts
Being convicted of defrauding your lenders probably does make it harder to borrow money. Just one reason of many why you shouldn’t do it.
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On March 18 2024 20:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Does anyone think we'll have general election debates between Trump and Biden, like we did in 2020? Based on how much shit-talking Trump does against Biden, it sounds like Trump feels he'd wipe the floor with Biden in a debate (not that Trump knows how to actually debate in good faith). On the other hand, Trump had been purposely avoiding debates all throughout the primary, so I wonder if he'll avoid debating Biden too.
The debate would simply be Trump yelling incoherently over Biden, and interrupting the moderator and Biden all the time, much like in 2020 vs. Biden and in 2016 vs. Clinton, while Biden struggles to get a word in edgewise, so I can't imagine it would be any better than a shitshow. Trump dominating the conversation with memes and bullshit and superficial taglines could arguably galvanize voters who like the optics of a macho, alpha bully, especially if Biden comes off as meek and powerless next to Trump, so I think that Biden may have a little bit more to lose than Trump in such a debate.
Hard to say if they will. Trump didn't debate during the primary for the same reason Biden didn't. It was unnecessary based on his polling.
If Trump continues to be ahead of Biden nationally and in every swing state it puts the impetus to debate on Biden. In which case Trump might turn it down for the same reason as the primary and/or Biden's handlers might not think the risk of Biden saying something "unscripted"/bumbling through Trump's interruptions is worth the potential reward from a debate.
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On March 19 2024 02:07 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2024 07:52 BlackJack wrote:On March 18 2024 07:39 Sermokala wrote:On March 18 2024 06:57 BlackJack wrote:On March 18 2024 06:05 Gorsameth wrote:
You keep trying to imply Biden can't speak in full sentences.
I thought we dispelled that myth with the State of the Union. There's a difference between giving a once-a-year prepared speech that you have plenty of time to rehearse for than being on the campaign trail, answering questions and speaking off-script. Let's not pretend this is some hot take just because it's coming from me. It's a widely held opinion that Biden lacks the mental sharpness for another term. If you think that's untrue why don't you think his advisers do more to put him front and center to prove otherwise? Why do they decline interviews and press conferences? Why won't they commit to debates? Seems like his advisers agree more with me. Can you commit to us here that you think trump has more mental sharpness than biden? Just want to save it for when the dimentia gets even more out of control. Trump clearly has more mental sharpness right now than Biden. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by getting this on the record. You know that you can't rate the truthfulness of past statements based on some changes that may or may not happen in the future, right? Just wanted a snapshot of your abilility to judge mental sharpness. Thats a big yikes though how nervous you are to how that will age. I know we're conditioned to trumps middle school level speech but even recently hes gone downhill. Forgetting who is president who was speaker while he was president and failling to get near pronounce the names of nearby nations is bad. The guy is clearly suffering from dimentia with how he leans forward and struggles to walk at times. Memory loss is one thing but loseing the ability to communicate is not something you should be looking past in the name of partisanship.
The big yikes is taking umbrage at the statement that Trump is mentally sharper than Biden while lecturing someone about partisanship. Do you want to go on record that Biden is mentally sharper than Trump? Don't forget, like I said earlier, running a Presidential campaign is considered physically and mentally grueling. Biden didn't even have to do it in 2020 because of COVID. I know you won't be nervous going on record about how Biden will perform on the campaign trail because being blindly partisan means you don't have to acknowledge reality.
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On March 19 2024 03:16 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2024 20:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Does anyone think we'll have general election debates between Trump and Biden, like we did in 2020? Based on how much shit-talking Trump does against Biden, it sounds like Trump feels he'd wipe the floor with Biden in a debate (not that Trump knows how to actually debate in good faith). On the other hand, Trump had been purposely avoiding debates all throughout the primary, so I wonder if he'll avoid debating Biden too.
The debate would simply be Trump yelling incoherently over Biden, and interrupting the moderator and Biden all the time, much like in 2020 vs. Biden and in 2016 vs. Clinton, while Biden struggles to get a word in edgewise, so I can't imagine it would be any better than a shitshow. Trump dominating the conversation with memes and bullshit and superficial taglines could arguably galvanize voters who like the optics of a macho, alpha bully, especially if Biden comes off as meek and powerless next to Trump, so I think that Biden may have a little bit more to lose than Trump in such a debate. Hard to say if they will. Trump didn't debate during the primary for the same reason Biden didn't. It was unnecessary based on his polling. If Trump continues to be ahead of Biden nationally and in every swing state it puts the impetus to debate on Biden. In which case Trump might turn it down for the same reason as the primary and/or Biden's handlers might not think the risk of Biden saying something "unscripted"/bumbling through Trump's interruptions is worth the potential reward from a debate.
I largely agree with you on this. If the polls continue to be close over the next few months, then I don't know if either candidate is going to want to risk their position. If one candidate ends up polling significantly behind the other around the end of the summer / in the fall (perhaps worse than a 40-60 split), then the candidate who's losing ground might feel the need to make a risky move (such as calling for a debate which may or may not end up occurring anyway).
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There's not much need contemplating each candidate's willingness to debate. That's pretty out in the open. Trump is basically begging for Biden to debate him and Biden's camp is refusing to commit to any debates. It's obvious Trump thinks he has more to gain from a debate and Biden's team think Biden has more to lose. The ball is entirely in Biden's court. The decision that needs to be made here is whether Biden's team thinks he will be hurt more by having a debate or more by breaking tradition and refusing to debate.
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On March 19 2024 04:55 BlackJack wrote:
There's not much need contemplating each candidate's willingness to debate. That's pretty out in the open. Trump is basically begging for Biden to debate him and Biden's camp is refusing to commit to any debates. It's obvious Trump thinks he has more to gain from a debate and Biden's team think Biden has more to lose. The ball is entirely in Biden's court. The decision that needs to be made here is whether Biden's team thinks he will be hurt more by having a debate or more by breaking tradition and refusing to debate.
I think I missed whatever direct quote you're referring to, but can you please cite wherever Trump has challenged Biden to a debate this election cycle? I haven't seen any tweets or speeches where Trump basically begs Biden for a debate.
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On March 19 2024 04:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2024 04:55 BlackJack wrote:
There's not much need contemplating each candidate's willingness to debate. That's pretty out in the open. Trump is basically begging for Biden to debate him and Biden's camp is refusing to commit to any debates. It's obvious Trump thinks he has more to gain from a debate and Biden's team think Biden has more to lose. The ball is entirely in Biden's court. The decision that needs to be made here is whether Biden's team thinks he will be hurt more by having a debate or more by breaking tradition and refusing to debate. I think I missed whatever direct quote you're referring to, but can you please cite wherever Trump has challenged Biden to a debate this election cycle? I haven't seen any tweets or speeches where Trump basically begs Biden for a debate.
www.cnbc.com
“I’d like to call for, immediately, debates,” Trump said on “The Dan Bongino Show.”
“I’d like to debate him now because we should debate,” said the former president, who is the front-runner for the Republican Party’s presidential nomination. “We should debate for the good of the country.”
Biden dismissed the idea.
“Well, if I were him, I’d want to debate me too,” Biden told reporters at a boba shop in Las Vegas when asked about Trump’s challenge. “He’s got nothing else to do,” Biden added.
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Norway28691 Posts
Trump is willing to debate Biden “anytime, anywhere, anyplace,” he declared Monday on Truth Social, writing that the two candidates “owe it to our country.”
Edit: Bj's source is from february, where it makes some sense to not commit to a debate (as the primaries were still officially ongoing), but my quote is from this week. www.forbes.com
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Thank you both for the sources! Given those quotes, I agree with BJ that the ball is in Biden's court. I think Biden would need to be losing in the polls pretty badly to risk a debate with Trump though. We'll see!
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On March 19 2024 05:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Thank you both for the sources! Given those quotes, I agree with BJ that the ball is in Biden's court. I think Biden would need to be losing in the polls pretty badly to risk a debate with Trump though. We'll see!
Not sure there is anyone in Biden's camp that thinks a debate would help him now or if he falls further behind in the polls.
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What was the reason Trump didnt debate in the GOP primaries?
Now all of a sudden he wants to debate? GTFO. He was a clown show last time.
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On March 19 2024 05:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2024 05:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Thank you both for the sources! Given those quotes, I agree with BJ that the ball is in Biden's court. I think Biden would need to be losing in the polls pretty badly to risk a debate with Trump though. We'll see! Not sure there is anyone in Biden's camp that thinks a debate would help him now or if he falls further behind in the polls.
Fair point. If Biden or his campaign want to publicly turn down the idea of a debate, they could certainly say it's because they know Trump just wants to hurl insults and act like a child - like Trump did on the 2020 debate stage - rather than have an intelligent exchange of ideas. That would be precisely what would happen anyway. Biden supporters would likely be fine with that, and Trump supporters would accuse Biden of running scared, so neither side would shift.
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On March 19 2024 05:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2024 05:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Thank you both for the sources! Given those quotes, I agree with BJ that the ball is in Biden's court. I think Biden would need to be losing in the polls pretty badly to risk a debate with Trump though. We'll see! Not sure there is anyone in Biden's camp that thinks a debate would help him now or if he falls further behind in the polls.
I'm sure there's people that think it could help Biden. Because it could. If he debates and performs as well as he did in 2020 it would be a huge boon for Biden as many Americans just want some reassurance that his decline is very slow and he's not far from baseline. I get that impression that Biden's team would rather not have debates if they can get by without that causing too much blowback or murmurings of his ability. If Biden is trailing in the polls then they would be more likely to take that risk. They just have to calculate how likely he is to exceed expectations. That includes not just calculating how well they think their guy will perform but also calculating what the public expects in the first place. The latter can change quickly - he looks better after performing well at the SoTU than he did a few weeks before that when he was recalling meeting with dead people.
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United States24702 Posts
If there are debates, they need to include mics shutting off when time expires. Trump obviously can’t be trusted to behave like an adult in debates.
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On March 19 2024 05:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2024 05:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2024 05:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Thank you both for the sources! Given those quotes, I agree with BJ that the ball is in Biden's court. I think Biden would need to be losing in the polls pretty badly to risk a debate with Trump though. We'll see! Not sure there is anyone in Biden's camp that thinks a debate would help him now or if he falls further behind in the polls. Fair point. If Biden or his campaign want to publicly turn down the idea of a debate, they could certainly say it's because they know Trump just wants to hurl insults and act like a child - like Trump did on the 2020 debate stage - rather than have an intelligent exchange of ideas. That would be precisely what would happen anyway. Biden supporters would likely be fine with that, and Trump supporters would accuse Biden of running scared, so neither side would shift.
The debates are scheduled, with the first being Sept 16th.
If Biden insists on not showing up, I don't think "independent"/"undecided" voters will be as forgiving for such an upheaval as party loyalists.
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EPT
