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Are there any polls on any other democrats than Biden vs Trump?
looking through this, from a cursory glance, it looks like Haley tends to perform better than Trump (small sample size) and that Trump seems to perform better than DeSantis.
Looking at (I guess I answered the question I started out asking) looks like Gretchen Whitmer could do better and that Manchin would do best, but that Newsom does the same as Biden. Of course fair to assume that these much-less-known-nationally-faces could improve their standing through more public exposure and that Biden has maxed out his potential, though. (Although again my personal opinion is that Biden will probably look better in an unedited 2 hour long debate than he does through the lens of numerous 10 second segments of gibberish. Trump does, too.)
On January 27 2024 06:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Are there any polls on any other democrats than Biden vs Trump?
looking through this, from a cursory glance, it looks like Haley tends to perform better than Trump (small sample size) and that Trump seems to perform better than DeSantis.
Looking at (I guess I answered the question I started out asking) looks like Gretchen Whitmer could do better and that Manchin would do best, but that Newsom does the same as Biden. Of course fair to assume that these much-less-known-nationally-faces could improve their standing through more public exposure and that Biden has maxed out his potential, though. (Although again my personal opinion is that Biden will probably look better in an unedited 2 hour long debate than he does through the lens of numerous 10 second segments of gibberish. Trump does, too.)
I'm not sure Biden would survive a two hour uncut debate with Trump.
On January 27 2024 06:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Are there any polls on any other democrats than Biden vs Trump?
looking through this, from a cursory glance, it looks like Haley tends to perform better than Trump (small sample size) and that Trump seems to perform better than DeSantis.
Looking at (I guess I answered the question I started out asking) looks like Gretchen Whitmer could do better and that Manchin would do best, but that Newsom does the same as Biden. Of course fair to assume that these much-less-known-nationally-faces could improve their standing through more public exposure and that Biden has maxed out his potential, though. (Although again my personal opinion is that Biden will probably look better in an unedited 2 hour long debate than he does through the lens of numerous 10 second segments of gibberish. Trump does, too.)
I'm not sure Biden would survive a two hour uncut debate with Trump.
I'm not sure US democracy could survive that. Might implode with shame.
Just kidding, they could both stand on stage and drool for 2 hours, and voters for both would spin how their guy's drool was clearly indicative of their superiority.
On January 26 2024 23:40 Mikau wrote: Yeah, comparing Trump to Biden and then pretending like Biden is the incoherend mentally deteriorating one is just about the dumbest thing I've heard this week.
I'm guessing that has to do with your personal biases and/or the expectation of Biden has become so low that we don't even care if he can finish his sentences anymore. It's now a daily occurrence. Here's some clips of him speaking the last few days where his sentences are simply unintelligible.
It's fine if you are at campaign rallies and the people will laugh/cheer without even understanding what you're saying, but I don't think it would work on a debate stage to just end sentences with random mutterings.
The point isn't that no other politician has ever made gaffes, the point is that it's literally every single time he speaks in public he says things which are unintelligible.
And that's precisely the same as Trump. That's all we're saying. No one is saying that Biden makes zero verbal mistakes or has the same mental acuity has he did years ago. It's just as easy to post a ton of Trump clips as it is Biden clips; every single speech (to say nothing of the tweets) that Trump gives has gaffes and slurred speech and issues similar to the ones you posted of Biden. In terms of age-related issues and mental deterioration and cognitive/verbal mess-ups, it's approximately a draw, which is why we might as well look at their policies and past presidencies.
If you think it's approximately a draw you're surely entitled to your opinion. Polling shows significantly more people think Biden is "too old to run" compared to Trump so your perception is not reflected in the greater voting population.
That's not the same thing though. Of course an older person is more likely to be "too old" than a younger person. That doesn't mean that Trump is coherent or articulate.
Also, I assume that people are more likely to focus on Biden's age because there aren't nearly as many substantive, political issues or criminal activities or incendiary rhetoric compared to Trump. When it comes to Trump, people care less about his age and more about his undermining of democracy.
"Age-related issues and mental deterioration" is too dissimilar to "too old to run" for you?
They also have polls on whether Biden is "mentally sharp" enough for 2nd term, and only 32% of respondents agreed with that, also significantly behind Trump. "Mental sharpness" is even more on the nose but I'm sure you'll also reject those findings anyway.
On January 27 2024 06:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Are there any polls on any other democrats than Biden vs Trump?
looking through this, from a cursory glance, it looks like Haley tends to perform better than Trump (small sample size) and that Trump seems to perform better than DeSantis.
Looking at (I guess I answered the question I started out asking) looks like Gretchen Whitmer could do better and that Manchin would do best, but that Newsom does the same as Biden. Of course fair to assume that these much-less-known-nationally-faces could improve their standing through more public exposure and that Biden has maxed out his potential, though. (Although again my personal opinion is that Biden will probably look better in an unedited 2 hour long debate than he does through the lens of numerous 10 second segments of gibberish. Trump does, too.)
I don't think polls like that are very insightful for the reasons you've acknowledged in your 3rd paragraph
On January 26 2024 23:40 Mikau wrote: Yeah, comparing Trump to Biden and then pretending like Biden is the incoherend mentally deteriorating one is just about the dumbest thing I've heard this week.
I'm guessing that has to do with your personal biases and/or the expectation of Biden has become so low that we don't even care if he can finish his sentences anymore. It's now a daily occurrence. Here's some clips of him speaking the last few days where his sentences are simply unintelligible.
It's fine if you are at campaign rallies and the people will laugh/cheer without even understanding what you're saying, but I don't think it would work on a debate stage to just end sentences with random mutterings.
The point isn't that no other politician has ever made gaffes, the point is that it's literally every single time he speaks in public he says things which are unintelligible.
And that's precisely the same as Trump. That's all we're saying. No one is saying that Biden makes zero verbal mistakes or has the same mental acuity has he did years ago. It's just as easy to post a ton of Trump clips as it is Biden clips; every single speech (to say nothing of the tweets) that Trump gives has gaffes and slurred speech and issues similar to the ones you posted of Biden. In terms of age-related issues and mental deterioration and cognitive/verbal mess-ups, it's approximately a draw, which is why we might as well look at their policies and past presidencies.
If you think it's approximately a draw you're surely entitled to your opinion. Polling shows significantly more people think Biden is "too old to run" compared to Trump so your perception is not reflected in the greater voting population.
That's not the same thing though. Of course an older person is more likely to be "too old" than a younger person. That doesn't mean that Trump is coherent or articulate.
Also, I assume that people are more likely to focus on Biden's age because there aren't nearly as many substantive, political issues or criminal activities or incendiary rhetoric compared to Trump. When it comes to Trump, people care less about his age and more about his undermining of democracy.
"Age-related issues and mental deterioration" is too dissimilar to "too old to run" for you?
They also have polls on whether Biden is "mentally sharp" enough for 2nd term, and only 32% of respondents agreed with that, also significantly behind Trump. "Mental sharpness" is even more on the nose but I'm sure you'll also reject those findings anyway.
I think that the "mental sharpness" examples in the site you just posted are much more relevant than just saying "too old", so I appreciate you linking them. And I want to reiterate that most moderate/left news sites have so much to condemn Trump over, that mentioning Trump's incoherence is going to receive a much smaller sliver of reporting time than when right news sites focus on far fewer issues (mainly Biden's gaffes and the existence of Hunter Biden).
On January 26 2024 23:40 Mikau wrote: Yeah, comparing Trump to Biden and then pretending like Biden is the incoherend mentally deteriorating one is just about the dumbest thing I've heard this week.
I'm guessing that has to do with your personal biases and/or the expectation of Biden has become so low that we don't even care if he can finish his sentences anymore. It's now a daily occurrence. Here's some clips of him speaking the last few days where his sentences are simply unintelligible.
It's fine if you are at campaign rallies and the people will laugh/cheer without even understanding what you're saying, but I don't think it would work on a debate stage to just end sentences with random mutterings.
The point isn't that no other politician has ever made gaffes, the point is that it's literally every single time he speaks in public he says things which are unintelligible.
And that's precisely the same as Trump. That's all we're saying. No one is saying that Biden makes zero verbal mistakes or has the same mental acuity has he did years ago. It's just as easy to post a ton of Trump clips as it is Biden clips; every single speech (to say nothing of the tweets) that Trump gives has gaffes and slurred speech and issues similar to the ones you posted of Biden. In terms of age-related issues and mental deterioration and cognitive/verbal mess-ups, it's approximately a draw, which is why we might as well look at their policies and past presidencies.
If you think it's approximately a draw you're surely entitled to your opinion. Polling shows significantly more people think Biden is "too old to run" compared to Trump so your perception is not reflected in the greater voting population.
That's not the same thing though. Of course an older person is more likely to be "too old" than a younger person. That doesn't mean that Trump is coherent or articulate.
Also, I assume that people are more likely to focus on Biden's age because there aren't nearly as many substantive, political issues or criminal activities or incendiary rhetoric compared to Trump. When it comes to Trump, people care less about his age and more about his undermining of democracy.
Also Trump was always like this anyway, whereas for whatever reasons Biden has more visibly declined in presentation.
Age would be a likely reason certainly, the stress of the top job could be another but whatever it is it does seem there’s been an active drop there. And it’s not a judgement on age, it’s how age is impacting Biden specifically.
Trump has lots of things disqualifying him in my mind but has he really got any worse in competence or communication skills since 2016, or before then? The guy’s narcissism would be a dealbreaker for me if he was in 30s.
Of course there are Blue cultists, but it feels many a Dem-leaning voter, or genuine floating voters will appraise candidates on a more objective basis, including their flaws. A sizeable chunk of Trump’s base will not do that.
It feels we’re in for a battle of a flawed candidate who doesn’t enthuse with a larger potential base, versus a flawed candidate with a smaller, but borderline cult as a base. Turnout, and if people will be bothered, or willing to hold their nose and vote to keep Trump out, of course turnout always plays a factor but it feels it is THE factor in this cycle.
Within the parameters of pragmatism and realism, as opposed to what I’d like to see, I don’t think Biden has done all that bad a job for his first term, steering a ship in some pretty complicated times lest we forget. But I can’t help but feel quit while one is ahead on this one, 4 years further is a long stretch to pull off if you’re already seemingly on the decline.
Historically incumbent advantage is absolutely a thing, albeit not necessarily an immutable rule. Time will tell but I do fear Biden’s pursuit of a second term could well be what gives Trump his second.
I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money
Trump 2016
We are going to take a strong look at our country’s libel laws so that when somebody says something that is false and defamatory about someone, that person will have meaningful recourse in our courts. And if somebody says something that’s totally false and knowingly false, that the person that has been abused, defamed, libeled, will have meaningful recourse.
We are going to take a strong look at our country’s libel laws so that when somebody says something that is false and defamatory about someone, that person will have meaningful recourse in our courts. And if somebody says something that’s totally false and knowingly false, that the person that has been abused, defamed, libeled, will have meaningful recourse.
Trump 2018
The Revolutionary War had airplanes (paraphrased, Trump 2019). I can't keep track of who Obama, Clinton, Biden, Pelosi, or Haley are (Trump, every year). I frequently mispronounce words or swap them out for the wrong words (Trump, every year). I incoherently ramble in my speeches, to say nothing of my insane social media posts (Trump, every year).
Also: I make up stories and lie about other people in order to destroy their character (Trump, every year). It's so ironic when he lies, gets things wrong, and actually maliciously defames other people. And yet he feels like he's a victim?
"First on CNN: Three US troops killed in drone attack in Jordan, at least two dozen injured"
President Joe Biden vowed on Sunday to hold those responsible for the attack “to account,” saying that while facts are still being gathered, “We know it was carried out by radical Iran-backed militant groups operating in Syria and Iraq.”
"First on CNN: Three US troops killed in drone attack in Jordan, at least two dozen injured"
President Joe Biden vowed on Sunday to hold those responsible for the attack “to account,” saying that while facts are still being gathered, “We know it was carried out by radical Iran-backed militant groups operating in Syria and Iraq.”
He might want to look into holding the government that has killed over 10,000 kids (and maimed 10's of thousands more) accountable, instead of circumventing congress to send them more weapons to massacre the kids with.
What do they propose? I mean wasn’t Trump’s Presidency thru now largely characterised in that domain by de-escalating US involvement? And indeed was quite popular in some quarters for doing thus.
You seem to think there needs to be an actual basis for both Haley and Trump to blame Biden for the drone attack. The flow chart is actually <drone attack> --> <bad> --> <blame Biden and Dems>.
If we learn tomorrow that a small meteor is heading toward earth and might mess up a city it will be <meteor> --> <bad> --> <blame Biden and Dems>.
If something good happens, it will be <good thing happens> --> <good> --> <take credit> --> <blame Biden and Dems for almost blocking good thing>
This has been the state of Republican politics for quite a while now, and the Democrats are only marginally better in this regard, I think.
On January 29 2024 08:18 micronesia wrote: You seem to think there needs to be an actual basis for both Haley and Trump to blame Biden for the drone attack. The flow chart is actually <drone attack> --> <bad> --> <blame Biden and Dems>.
If we learn tomorrow that a small meteor is heading toward earth and might mess up a city it will be <meteor> --> <bad> --> <blame Biden and Dems>.
If something good happens, it will be <good thing happens> --> <good> --> <take credit> --> <blame Biden and Dems for almost blocking good thing>
This has been the state of Republican politics for quite a while now, and the Democrats are only marginally better in this regard, I think.
While this is astutely and somewhat humorously (depressingly) observed, there did seem to be pretty big foreign policy divergences that have emerged in this Trump era between the Dems and Republicans more broadly, and their constituent supporters.
I agree the two will just blame whoever’s holding office for anything, fairly or consistently or not, but I was curious if these divergences were continuing? I haven’t followed the primaries religiously, and I imagine perhaps Israel has thrown a cat amongst the pigeons in certain regards
More a general question to the thread than you specifically btw
On January 29 2024 08:14 WombaT wrote: What do they propose? I mean wasn’t Trump’s Presidency thru now largely characterised in that domain by de-escalating US involvement? And indeed was quite popular in some quarters for doing thus.
Whenever anything bad in the world happens, it's Biden's fault.
Hell, Trump blamed Obama and Biden for things that weren't even during their presidencies.
EPT
