EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4037
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
KwarK
United States43203 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23453 Posts
On August 03 2023 01:09 KwarK wrote: Anything short of a long prison sentence is a mockery of our justice system. He’s on tape joking about the crimes because he genuinely believes he’s above the law. The issue at stake is whether he’s right. And honestly he probably is. It does really make me wonder who will still consider the US a "nation of laws'" if he is | ||
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Lmui
Canada6215 Posts
On August 03 2023 01:09 KwarK wrote: Anything short of a long prison sentence is a mockery of our justice system. He’s on tape joking about the crimes because he genuinely believes he’s above the law. The issue at stake is whether he’s right. And honestly he probably is. I would love for Trump to go to prison, as much as you, but I've got to be realistic. The only other high profile person I know is Bernie Madoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Incarceration He was ~71 when he was incarcerated, Trump is 77 and in (visually anyways) worse physical condition. He *should* get the rest of his life in prison like 99.99% of the population would for similar crimes. Rest of his life in house arrest is the most I could imagine though. There's also secret service assigned to protect him for the remainder of his life which would be awkward to say the least. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25996 Posts
On August 03 2023 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote: It does really make me wonder who will still consider the US a "nation of laws'" if he is Well indeed. There is a marked and rather stark contrast between what is likely to happen to Trump and what happens to poor folks stealing a few tide pods or whatever, two quite neatly juxtaposed topics within this thread. | ||
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FeatherPlanes
45 Posts
On August 03 2023 02:34 JimmiC wrote:DeSantis has sure been a big nothing burger as well. I mean, anyone who sees how he talks to the public knows that would be the case. All you have to do is watch how to operates in Florida. It was extremely clear why he'd have trouble on the national stage when people would actually be able to start pushing his buttons without Florida's government running interference. Everything about him is so terminally online that I would believe you if you told me he was a frequent Redditor or 4channer. He already kinda confirmed it by launching his campaign on goddamn Twitter of all places. For all of Trump's faults, he's clearly a gregarious person and more importantly his supporters see him as one too. Every time DeSantis is in public, he's the most awkward nerd who can barely hide his contempt for everyone. He literally only appeals to nerds suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect, in many ways he's basically Elizabeth Warren in terms of audience appeal. None of the so-called "technocratic" ability means anything if everyone hates you. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25996 Posts
On August 03 2023 07:18 FeatherPlanes wrote: I mean, anyone who sees how he talks to the public knows that would be the case. All you have to do is watch how to operates in Florida. It was extremely clear why he'd have trouble on the national stage when people would actually be able to start pushing his buttons without Florida's government running interference. Everything about him is so terminally online that I would believe you if you told me he was a frequent Redditor or 4channer. He already kinda confirmed it by launching his campaign on goddamn Twitter of all places. For all of Trump's faults, he's clearly a gregarious person and more importantly his supporters see him as one too. Every time DeSantis is in public, he's the most awkward nerd who can barely hide his contempt for everyone. He literally only appeals to nerds suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect, in many ways he's basically Elizabeth Warren in terms of audience appeal. None of the so-called "technocratic" ability means anything if everyone hates you. Yeah I mean I’d even more wholeheartedly agree if I could fathom how people see Trump as gregarious, or isn’t incredibly transparently contemptuous of average Joes and Janes, but he is nonetheless perceived in the opposite manner by many. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On August 03 2023 00:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Only thing I care about is if they legitimately ban him from running for any office and force him to pay damages. He won't get jail and he won't get house arrest. So banning him from office is the only punishment they can really do. Anything short and the system has failed spectacular fashion. Unfortunately the courts cannot order someone to be barred from running for office. Only Congress can do that by impeachment. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14047 Posts
On August 03 2023 02:34 JimmiC wrote: The fatigue of Trump in legal trouble is also very real. This should be a huge deal but it a big yawn because most believe nothing will come from it. And not just legally, he is as popular, more popular than ever? I can not figure out how of all the choice so many believe he is the best choice. DeSantis has sure been a big nothing burger as well. Lets list the people behind Trump and DeSantis Ramaswamy: Do people think Republicans will go out and vote for an Indian fellow? Btw this guy wants to eliminate the FBI, the Department of Education and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission if elected. Pence: Do people think Republicans will go out and vote for the guy they tried to kill already? Haley: Do people think Republicans will go out and vote for a woman? Tom Scott: Do people think Republicans will go out and vote for a black man? Unironically could live with this guy being president and would be a real campaign I think between them he's been running an extremely non drama campaign that's resonating with people. Christie: Do people think Republicans will vote for the guy whos been hateing on trump as his whole campaign? The rest of the field I've never heard of and will struggle to make it to the debate. Trump will be the nominee if he's in jail or not. This field makes recent dem fields look strong. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23453 Posts
On August 03 2023 04:15 WombaT wrote: Well indeed. There is a marked and rather stark contrast between what is likely to happen to Trump and what happens to poor folks stealing a few tide pods or whatever, two quite neatly juxtaposed topics within this thread. What's wild is that Biden is in a coin flip to find out if he's going to hand the nuclear football back to Trump (regardless of whether he's in prison or not) and he still ostensibly plans on restarting student loan payments. Depending on how Biden handles it (or if he makes any other obviously big mistakes), Trump very well could win. Then what? "Vote Blue no matter who, if or when they let you vote, pray they count them, and if you win hope they recognize it!" isn't exactly a winning slogan. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10801 Posts
Let's not talk about the underlying system, that keeps going, we just forgive them this once time... | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18110 Posts
On August 03 2023 11:03 GreenHorizons wrote: What's wild is that Biden is in a coin flip to find out if he's going to hand the nuclear football back to Trump (regardless of whether he's in prison or not) and he still ostensibly plans on restarting student loan payments. Depending on how Biden handles it (or if he makes any other obviously big mistakes), Trump very well could win. Then what? "Vote Blue no matter who, if or when they let you vote, pray they count them, and if you win hope they recognize it!" isn't exactly a winning slogan. This is a take I've heard various people here repeat and don't get me wrong: imho Biden is far too old for the job, but here is an alternative view on his first term: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/02/bidenomics-is-working-which-means-biden-and-the-democrats-may-win-too Is that just outright wrong? Are "normal people" not seeing an uptick in their quality of life? But if they are, then it isn't a huge leap to think most qualified Republicans are sitting this one out. Both to avoid the shitshow that'll be a Trump primary and because even if they win the primary, they'd have to face an incumbent in a resurgent economy. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21948 Posts
On August 03 2023 11:03 GreenHorizons wrote: Considering how US politics works and how tribal the divide is I don't think it has anything to do with Biden. Or even with Trump.What's wild is that Biden is in a coin flip to find out if he's going to hand the nuclear football back to Trump (regardless of whether he's in prison or not) and he still ostensibly plans on restarting student loan payments. Depending on how Biden handles it (or if he makes any other obviously big mistakes), Trump very well could win. Then what? "Vote Blue no matter who, if or when they let you vote, pray they count them, and if you win hope they recognize it!" isn't exactly a winning slogan. The last 4 elections have been about a 46-51 split (with a slight dip for Hillary). It doesn't matter who either party runs, it will always look like a coin flip in generic polling. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On August 03 2023 17:47 Gorsameth wrote: Considering how US politics works and how tribal the divide is I don't think it has anything to do with Biden. Or even with Trump. The last 4 elections have been about a 46-51 split (with a slight dip for Hillary). It doesn't matter who either party runs, it will always look like a coin flip in generic polling. That's because of the various methods within gerrymandering. While it can backfire occasionally, it usually comes out favorably for Republicans (as long as they correctly predict voter turnout). It may appear as if election results are reasonably balanced when in actuality they're completely skewed the majority of the time a Republican wins (and sometimes when a Democrat wins, but much less often). | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On August 03 2023 15:32 Acrofales wrote: This is a take I've heard various people here repeat and don't get me wrong: imho Biden is far too old for the job, but here is an alternative view on his first term: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/02/bidenomics-is-working-which-means-biden-and-the-democrats-may-win-too Is that just outright wrong? Are "normal people" not seeing an uptick in their quality of life? But if they are, then it isn't a huge leap to think most qualified Republicans are sitting this one out. Both to avoid the shitshow that'll be a Trump primary and because even if they win the primary, they'd have to face an incumbent in a resurgent economy. Robert Reich is a far left professor hailing from UC Berkeley. An Op-ed in support of Biden's policies doesn't mean much in context because he'd be writing an op-ed in support of Biden's policies no matter the circumstances. I'd look at opinion polls on how the average voter views the economy and it's not great. People are paying a lot more for gas and groceries and find it harder to make ends meet. + Show Spoiler + Also a great callback to my post about NIMBYism. Robert Reich often speaks in support of affordable housing but when they tried to construct a 10-unit apartment for low-income tenants in his neighborhood in Berkeley he fought against it saying it would ruin the character of the neighborhood. (Or maybe ruin the color of the neighborhood?  ) | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28706 Posts
On August 03 2023 18:10 Magic Powers wrote: That's because of the various methods within gerrymandering. While it can backfire occasionally, it usually comes out favorably for Republicans (as long as they correctly predict voter turnout). It may appear as if election results are reasonably balanced when in actuality they're completely skewed the majority of the time a Republican wins (and sometimes when a Democrat wins, but much less often). Gerrymandering isnt actually a factor in presidential elections. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On August 03 2023 18:10 Magic Powers wrote: That's because of the various methods within gerrymandering. While it can backfire occasionally, it usually comes out favorably for Republicans (as long as they correctly predict voter turnout). It may appear as if election results are reasonably balanced when in actuality they're completely skewed the majority of the time a Republican wins (and sometimes when a Democrat wins, but much less often). Gerrymandering is a way to increase congressional seats by drawing district lines a certain way. For example if you have 2 districts that are 60-40 for Democrat you could redraw the lines to create 1 heavily D district and 1 barely R district so each party gets a seat instead of 2 seats going to D. It doesn't really apply in a Presidential election because everyone in the country gets a vote and what congressional district someone is voting out of doesn't matter. Only what state someone is voting out of matters. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On August 03 2023 18:22 BlackJack wrote: Gerrymandering is a way to increase congressional seats by drawing district lines a certain way. For example if you have 2 districts that are 60-40 for Democrat you could redraw the lines to create 1 heavily D district and 1 barely R district so each party gets a seat instead of 2 seats going to D. It doesn't really apply in a Presidential election because everyone in the country gets a vote and what congressional district someone is voting out of doesn't matter. Only what state someone is voting out of matters. I see, thanks for the correction. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23453 Posts
On August 03 2023 17:47 Gorsameth wrote: Considering how US politics works and how tribal the divide is I don't think it has anything to do with Biden. Or even with Trump. The last 4 elections have been about a 46-51 split (with a slight dip for Hillary). It doesn't matter who either party runs, it will always look like a coin flip in generic polling. Biden had a comfortable double digit lead vs Trump at this point in the 2020 cycle and an ~7 point lead going into the election (his win was smaller by a few percent). Biden's polling noticeably worse than himself in the same matchup, at the same time, and if he underperforms polls by the same margin he'll lose in 2024. Trump winning is a real possibility and as far as I can tell the Democrat/their supporters contingency plan for that is basically "Vote Blue no matter who, if or when they let you vote, pray they count them, and if you win hope they recognize it!". | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On August 03 2023 18:21 Liquid`Drone wrote: Gerrymandering isnt actually a factor in presidential elections. No, you're right, but at that point you deal with the electoral college. | ||
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