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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
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I facepalmed pretty hard. Face it folks. We've been owned.
Congrats Drone! That news is way better than the norm for us here, lol. Hope everything is going well.
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On May 11 2022 04:50 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 04:35 Erasme wrote:On May 11 2022 03:04 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 02:08 WombaT wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. How is the judiciary not doing that in this particular example? Are we going to see past overreaches of the branch expunged en masse? Considering that is the principle at play here? Or will we see Roe vs Wade specifically overturned, by the movement in the composition of the Supreme Court due to nominations by a party whose constituency wants an end to abortion? It strikes me as mightily convenient that the sole ruling on the chopping block under the auspices of judicial overreach happens to be this thing loads of people want to happenZ It's different because by overturning Roe, the SC is not mandating that abortion be legal or illegal (as Roe did). It's simply being left up to the legislative branch, where new laws are debated and created. As for the other rights that the SC has created, like interracial marriage and contraception, I think the SC will basically carve out a somewhat arbitrary exception for abortion and leave those other cases in place. Thus why Alito's opinion explicitly carves those other cases out, even though his reasoning might otherwise extend to them. On May 11 2022 03:01 KwarK wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. The procedure to "abort" an end-stage fetus is called a c-section and nobody is throwing delivered babies into the blender in the name of completing an abortion. It's a non issue. Everyone agrees that terminating a pregnancy by inducing a viable fetus, delivering it, and then killing it is infanticide. Nobody is doing it. It has no relevance to the discussion of abortion. Abortion relates to non viable fetuses. Not sure I would bet on that proposition. For example there is that former Virginia governor's interview where he explicitly contemplates infanticide. Linking these tweets just for the video: ROFL Are you betting on nobody actually clicking your videos ? They both said the same thing, that this should be left to the mother and the father and maybe the physicians. What an absolute clown world. Just point me where any of them said or contemplated infanticide. And as you're a republican, I want the word "infanticide" since you made that point. Not any other word. Sounds to me like northam was including babies with deformities in his description. He was alluding to ending the baby's life after birth, which is infanticide. define deformities.
Doctors talking about nonviable fetus because of deformations are not talking about a crooked toe or an extra finger. They talk about stuff like deformed hearts that cannot keep a new born alive without the mothers biology doing all the work.
That's not infanticide. that is nature killing it, not a doctor.
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On May 11 2022 04:25 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 04:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I can't really watch youtube right now but I have a hard time imagining Northam or Ryan actually thinking that it's okay to kill healthy babies after giving birth, no matter if that's the story Fox or right wing twitter is trying to push. This was northam describing a proposed state law at the time: Show nested quote +"[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that's nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen," Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. "The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
What exactly is the problem with what you quoted? We do the same thing with adults.
Congrats, Eri
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Congrats drone!!! Absolutely fantastic news. Wishing you and your family all the best.
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Norway28923 Posts
Thanks buddies. It's absolutely fantastic.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On May 11 2022 04:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 04:50 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 04:35 Erasme wrote:On May 11 2022 03:04 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 02:08 WombaT wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. How is the judiciary not doing that in this particular example? Are we going to see past overreaches of the branch expunged en masse? Considering that is the principle at play here? Or will we see Roe vs Wade specifically overturned, by the movement in the composition of the Supreme Court due to nominations by a party whose constituency wants an end to abortion? It strikes me as mightily convenient that the sole ruling on the chopping block under the auspices of judicial overreach happens to be this thing loads of people want to happenZ It's different because by overturning Roe, the SC is not mandating that abortion be legal or illegal (as Roe did). It's simply being left up to the legislative branch, where new laws are debated and created. As for the other rights that the SC has created, like interracial marriage and contraception, I think the SC will basically carve out a somewhat arbitrary exception for abortion and leave those other cases in place. Thus why Alito's opinion explicitly carves those other cases out, even though his reasoning might otherwise extend to them. On May 11 2022 03:01 KwarK wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. The procedure to "abort" an end-stage fetus is called a c-section and nobody is throwing delivered babies into the blender in the name of completing an abortion. It's a non issue. Everyone agrees that terminating a pregnancy by inducing a viable fetus, delivering it, and then killing it is infanticide. Nobody is doing it. It has no relevance to the discussion of abortion. Abortion relates to non viable fetuses. Not sure I would bet on that proposition. For example there is that former Virginia governor's interview where he explicitly contemplates infanticide. Linking these tweets just for the video: https://twitter.com/alec_sears/status/1522270135205117954https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1521986348235866112 ROFL Are you betting on nobody actually clicking your videos ? They both said the same thing, that this should be left to the mother and the father and maybe the physicians. What an absolute clown world. Just point me where any of them said or contemplated infanticide. And as you're a republican, I want the word "infanticide" since you made that point. Not any other word. Sounds to me like northam was including babies with deformities in his description. He was alluding to ending the baby's life after birth, which is infanticide. Its probably best to not get your facts from facebook memes. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion-idUSKBN27D2HL
There’s another way?!
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On May 11 2022 04:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 04:50 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 04:35 Erasme wrote:On May 11 2022 03:04 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 02:08 WombaT wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. How is the judiciary not doing that in this particular example? Are we going to see past overreaches of the branch expunged en masse? Considering that is the principle at play here? Or will we see Roe vs Wade specifically overturned, by the movement in the composition of the Supreme Court due to nominations by a party whose constituency wants an end to abortion? It strikes me as mightily convenient that the sole ruling on the chopping block under the auspices of judicial overreach happens to be this thing loads of people want to happenZ It's different because by overturning Roe, the SC is not mandating that abortion be legal or illegal (as Roe did). It's simply being left up to the legislative branch, where new laws are debated and created. As for the other rights that the SC has created, like interracial marriage and contraception, I think the SC will basically carve out a somewhat arbitrary exception for abortion and leave those other cases in place. Thus why Alito's opinion explicitly carves those other cases out, even though his reasoning might otherwise extend to them. On May 11 2022 03:01 KwarK wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. The procedure to "abort" an end-stage fetus is called a c-section and nobody is throwing delivered babies into the blender in the name of completing an abortion. It's a non issue. Everyone agrees that terminating a pregnancy by inducing a viable fetus, delivering it, and then killing it is infanticide. Nobody is doing it. It has no relevance to the discussion of abortion. Abortion relates to non viable fetuses. Not sure I would bet on that proposition. For example there is that former Virginia governor's interview where he explicitly contemplates infanticide. Linking these tweets just for the video: https://twitter.com/alec_sears/status/1522270135205117954https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1521986348235866112 ROFL Are you betting on nobody actually clicking your videos ? They both said the same thing, that this should be left to the mother and the father and maybe the physicians. What an absolute clown world. Just point me where any of them said or contemplated infanticide. And as you're a republican, I want the word "infanticide" since you made that point. Not any other word. Sounds to me like northam was including babies with deformities in his description. He was alluding to ending the baby's life after birth, which is infanticide. Its probably best to not get your facts from facebook memes. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion-idUSKBN27D2HL
Funny how the fact checkers had to rely on northam's spokesperson's comment that backpedaled on what he actually said: "he was referring to a 'extremely rare case' of a nonviable pregnancy." Nonviable pregnancies were explicitly a subset of what northam was talking about. Also funny that the actual bill northam was talking about was much, much broader than just "severe deformities or nonviable fetuses" (as stated in the totally unbiased fact check).
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Funny how even with two videos you coudln't justify your comments
But hey, i've come to expect this kind of news from republicans. "KRAKEN IS COMING" into absolutly nothing of value. "two governors call for infanticide!!" into "we should let the mothers be informed of their choices by their physicians and then make their own decision"
I didn't even bother fact checking it, just taking your videos at face value show that you're just putting w.e you want into their mouths.
Maybe you can pull a MTG and recant now that you've recalled whats actually in those clips ?
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On May 11 2022 06:00 Erasme wrote:
Funny how even with two videos you coudln't justify your comments
But hey, i've come to expect this kind of news from republicans. "KRAKEN IS COMING" into absolutly nothing of value. "two governors call for infanticide!!" into "we should let the mothers be informed of their choices by their physicians and then make their own decision"
I didn't even bother fact checking it, just taking your videos at face value show that you're just putting w.e you want into their mouths.
Maybe you can pull a MTG and recant now that you've recalled whats actually in those clips ?
You're just making conclusory statements without responding to what I actually said. With a dash of "January 6th" and "Marjorie Taylor Greene" thrown in, because thats relevant i guess.
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Congratulations drone.
I would like to hear one justification for a lack of exceptions for abortions when the pregnancy is no longer viable. When the law of your jurisdiction says that the woman should die or they will be charged with murder. I don't understand how anyone can have a conversation about abortion without having some sort of viability waiver.
I'm against abortions myself but to condemn women to die or face felony jail time is inarguably evil.
Even banning abortions entirely with a viability waiver is evil. You are either expecting those of means being able to travel to get an abortion, defeating the purpose of the law by making it just an extra burden for women, or you are going to restrict peoples travel over state lines as you demand the common folk to turn each other in like we are in the communist hell scape the right insists democrats want.
There is no argument for banning abortions, or allowing the states to ban abortions, that isn't derived from some insane worse than sharia law zealotry. Isis allows birth control and abortions even.
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On May 11 2022 06:15 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 06:00 Erasme wrote:
Funny how even with two videos you coudln't justify your comments
But hey, i've come to expect this kind of news from republicans. "KRAKEN IS COMING" into absolutly nothing of value. "two governors call for infanticide!!" into "we should let the mothers be informed of their choices by their physicians and then make their own decision"
I didn't even bother fact checking it, just taking your videos at face value show that you're just putting w.e you want into their mouths.
Maybe you can pull a MTG and recant now that you've recalled whats actually in those clips ? You're just making conclusory statements without responding to what I actually said. With a dash of "January 6th" and "Marjorie Taylor Greene" thrown in, because thats relevant i guess.
Hey, that was an olive branch as that moment probably was one of the few times she told the truth. You said they're talking about legalizing infanticide, which is your big shtick. I asked you to provid me a timestamp with infanticide. You failed to do that. Now i'm calling you dishonest for posting links with a shitty headline to prove your point, when clearly they don't. I think that's fair.
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On May 11 2022 06:23 Sermokala wrote:
Congratulations drone.
I would like to hear one justification for a lack of exceptions for abortions when the pregnancy is no longer viable. When the law of your jurisdiction says that the woman should die or they will be charged with murder. I don't understand how anyone can have a conversation about abortion without having some sort of viability waiver.
I'm against abortions myself but to condemn women to die or face felony jail time is inarguably evil.
Even banning abortions entirely with a viability waiver is evil. You are either expecting those of means being able to travel to get an abortion, defeating the purpose of the law by making it just an extra burden for women, or you are going to restrict peoples travel over state lines as you demand the common folk to turn each other in like we are in the communist hell scape the right insists democrats want.
There is no argument for banning abortions, or allowing the states to ban abortions, that isn't derived from some insane worse than sharia law zealotry. Isis allows birth control and abortions even.
Yeah my wife and I decided we would only abort if there was a genetic or developmental problem. But if the baby was healthy, even if we weren’t ready, we’d never abort. But part of that was the fact that even us being “not ready” is still way more ready than most people are lol.
Abortion being banned even in cases where the woman is at risk is plain and simple barbarism. There is no world where it is ethical to prevent abortions if the woman’s life is at risk
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Yeah I’d say once you feel the first kick, the father is 1000000% invested and no one is choosing to abort for some frivolous reason.
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On May 11 2022 06:32 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 06:15 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 06:00 Erasme wrote:
Funny how even with two videos you coudln't justify your comments
But hey, i've come to expect this kind of news from republicans. "KRAKEN IS COMING" into absolutly nothing of value. "two governors call for infanticide!!" into "we should let the mothers be informed of their choices by their physicians and then make their own decision"
I didn't even bother fact checking it, just taking your videos at face value show that you're just putting w.e you want into their mouths.
Maybe you can pull a MTG and recant now that you've recalled whats actually in those clips ? You're just making conclusory statements without responding to what I actually said. With a dash of "January 6th" and "Marjorie Taylor Greene" thrown in, because thats relevant i guess. Hey, that was an olive branch as that moment probably was one of the few times she told the truth. You said they're talking about legalizing infanticide, which is your big shtick. I asked you to provid me a timestamp with infanticide. You failed to do that. Now i'm calling you dishonest for posting links with a shitty headline to prove your point, when clearly they don't. I think that's fair.
Yes when I say I'm linking tweets for the video only, you should definitely turn around and say I linked them for something other than the video. Btw people don't need to use the word infanticide to talk about infanticide.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On May 11 2022 07:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I’d say once you feel the first kick, the father is 1000000% invested and no one is choosing to abort for some frivolous reason.
I was more invested then than i am now, with the horrifying realisation Minibat has inherited basically all of my irritating flaws /s
Sorry to hear that Jimmy, it’s a brutal and crushing experience that, for whatever reason tends not to be talked about all that much.
I don’t think this conception of frivolous late, late-term abortion remotely passes the anecdotal smell test, I highly doubt it passes the empirical data test either.
I still think it’s absolutely heinous to legislate for women to carry potentially doomed babies, or rape babies or incest babies to term. Sure that’s a bit down the line but there are certainly inklings of such legislation.
If one feels that strongly on this issue, to that degree. Then what?
Where are the proposed mechanisms to re-house such children? Or the bloody necessary counselling for a woman forced to bear her rapist’s child, etc etc
They’re incredibly conspicuous by their absence, be it at a state or private charity kind of level.
It’s not scaremongering, these are realistic hypotheticals based on what some corners are pushing.
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Congrats Drone, all the best to you and your family!
On May 11 2022 05:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 04:59 JimmiC wrote:On May 11 2022 04:50 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 04:35 Erasme wrote:On May 11 2022 03:04 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 02:08 WombaT wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. How is the judiciary not doing that in this particular example? Are we going to see past overreaches of the branch expunged en masse? Considering that is the principle at play here? Or will we see Roe vs Wade specifically overturned, by the movement in the composition of the Supreme Court due to nominations by a party whose constituency wants an end to abortion? It strikes me as mightily convenient that the sole ruling on the chopping block under the auspices of judicial overreach happens to be this thing loads of people want to happenZ It's different because by overturning Roe, the SC is not mandating that abortion be legal or illegal (as Roe did). It's simply being left up to the legislative branch, where new laws are debated and created. As for the other rights that the SC has created, like interracial marriage and contraception, I think the SC will basically carve out a somewhat arbitrary exception for abortion and leave those other cases in place. Thus why Alito's opinion explicitly carves those other cases out, even though his reasoning might otherwise extend to them. On May 11 2022 03:01 KwarK wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. The procedure to "abort" an end-stage fetus is called a c-section and nobody is throwing delivered babies into the blender in the name of completing an abortion. It's a non issue. Everyone agrees that terminating a pregnancy by inducing a viable fetus, delivering it, and then killing it is infanticide. Nobody is doing it. It has no relevance to the discussion of abortion. Abortion relates to non viable fetuses. Not sure I would bet on that proposition. For example there is that former Virginia governor's interview where he explicitly contemplates infanticide. Linking these tweets just for the video: https://twitter.com/alec_sears/status/1522270135205117954https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1521986348235866112 ROFL Are you betting on nobody actually clicking your videos ? They both said the same thing, that this should be left to the mother and the father and maybe the physicians. What an absolute clown world. Just point me where any of them said or contemplated infanticide. And as you're a republican, I want the word "infanticide" since you made that point. Not any other word. Sounds to me like northam was including babies with deformities in his description. He was alluding to ending the baby's life after birth, which is infanticide. Its probably best to not get your facts from facebook memes. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion-idUSKBN27D2HL Funny how the fact checkers had to rely on northam's spokesperson's comment that backpedaled on what he actually said: "he was referring to a 'extremely rare case' of a nonviable pregnancy." Nonviable pregnancies were explicitly a subset of what northam was talking about. Also funny that the actual bill northam was talking about was much, much broader than just "severe deformities or nonviable fetuses" (as stated in the totally unbiased fact check).
I really don't like piling in on you when you're already getting so many aggressive replies, but I gotta point something out.
I can see how one could uncharitably interpret "severe deformities" (the other part of the set) as something cosmetic rather than life-threatening in that context but there's no point getting into that. Take a step back and re-read the post you replied to with that link. The only acceptable example there would have been someone who wore that belief on their sleeve, never someone who at most may have misspoke.
Some days ago when people were talking about the Texas GOP debate on capital punishment for women who get abortions you dismissed the talking point as unfair because it's just a few state legislators of little consequence who won't be able to pass the law, but here's the thing, those state legislators repeatedly, unapologetically and unequivocally made those statements. So that is the absolute minimum bar that you yourself have to clear in the other direction.
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On May 11 2022 07:17 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 06:32 Erasme wrote:On May 11 2022 06:15 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 06:00 Erasme wrote:
Funny how even with two videos you coudln't justify your comments
But hey, i've come to expect this kind of news from republicans. "KRAKEN IS COMING" into absolutly nothing of value. "two governors call for infanticide!!" into "we should let the mothers be informed of their choices by their physicians and then make their own decision"
I didn't even bother fact checking it, just taking your videos at face value show that you're just putting w.e you want into their mouths.
Maybe you can pull a MTG and recant now that you've recalled whats actually in those clips ? You're just making conclusory statements without responding to what I actually said. With a dash of "January 6th" and "Marjorie Taylor Greene" thrown in, because thats relevant i guess. Hey, that was an olive branch as that moment probably was one of the few times she told the truth. You said they're talking about legalizing infanticide, which is your big shtick. I asked you to provid me a timestamp with infanticide. You failed to do that. Now i'm calling you dishonest for posting links with a shitty headline to prove your point, when clearly they don't. I think that's fair. Yes when I say I'm linking tweets for the video only, you should definitely turn around and say I linked them for something other than the video. Btw people don't need to use the word infanticide to talk about infanticide.
If stupidity would be lethal, you would have been deemed non viable long ago.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On May 11 2022 07:31 Dan HH wrote:Congrats Drone, all the best to you and your family! Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 05:51 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 04:59 JimmiC wrote:On May 11 2022 04:50 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 04:35 Erasme wrote:On May 11 2022 03:04 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 11 2022 02:08 WombaT wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. How is the judiciary not doing that in this particular example? Are we going to see past overreaches of the branch expunged en masse? Considering that is the principle at play here? Or will we see Roe vs Wade specifically overturned, by the movement in the composition of the Supreme Court due to nominations by a party whose constituency wants an end to abortion? It strikes me as mightily convenient that the sole ruling on the chopping block under the auspices of judicial overreach happens to be this thing loads of people want to happenZ It's different because by overturning Roe, the SC is not mandating that abortion be legal or illegal (as Roe did). It's simply being left up to the legislative branch, where new laws are debated and created. As for the other rights that the SC has created, like interracial marriage and contraception, I think the SC will basically carve out a somewhat arbitrary exception for abortion and leave those other cases in place. Thus why Alito's opinion explicitly carves those other cases out, even though his reasoning might otherwise extend to them. On May 11 2022 03:01 KwarK wrote:On May 11 2022 01:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:On May 10 2022 18:35 Velr wrote:
I find it hilarious how the US system is bending backwards trying to justify things according to an ancient and outdated document that can't be updated because your politicians (and people) are split.
Roe vs Wade is, from what i gather, not a good ruling but its the only one the US had. Probably because congress is disfunctional since way longer than people think. The fundamentals of that document are really solid. You have a federal government, sharing power with the states, and itself divided into three branches to further divide power. Congress is in a sense the supreme branch - the executive executes Congress's laws, and the judiciary interprets Congress's laws. That core system should not be changed in the modern day. And I'm repeating myself but Roe was a violation of that core system. The judiciary usurped Congress's role. That's a grave violation, an illegal power grab by judges, that should be remedied. Of course there is the point that congress is dysfunctional and it seems like we can't get anything done under the current system. But it's still not the judiciary's role to step in and enact the policy desired by just one side. Whenever people say we need the Supreme court to act because congress is dysfunctional, they are merely saying they want the court to carry out their own side's policy preferences. On May 11 2022 01:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 11 2022 01:32 Erasme wrote:
The gaslighting is getting absurd. First it was 'Roe vs Wade is settled', now it's 'they wont ban it totally' and 'contraceptives are safe' despite trigger laws and recent legislation. And now a fœtus and a baby are the same... ?
I guess revering a bunch of syphillitic drunkards will do that to a brain Calling a fetus any of those words - a baby or child or infant or newborn or any other word that's already been defined as post-birth - is merely being done to trigger an emotional response using incorrect semantics, to make it sound like women are taking two-week-old babies from their cribs and murdering them. It's both wrong and incredibly useful for their side, and the people who say that abortions are literally murdering babies know exactly what they're saying. It's incredibly bad-faith of them. It's important to distinguish between the different stages of pregnancy though. There is really no meaningful difference between an end-stage fetus and a baby. It's a baby inside the mother. The procedure to "abort" an end-stage fetus is called a c-section and nobody is throwing delivered babies into the blender in the name of completing an abortion. It's a non issue. Everyone agrees that terminating a pregnancy by inducing a viable fetus, delivering it, and then killing it is infanticide. Nobody is doing it. It has no relevance to the discussion of abortion. Abortion relates to non viable fetuses. Not sure I would bet on that proposition. For example there is that former Virginia governor's interview where he explicitly contemplates infanticide. Linking these tweets just for the video: https://twitter.com/alec_sears/status/1522270135205117954https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1521986348235866112 ROFL Are you betting on nobody actually clicking your videos ? They both said the same thing, that this should be left to the mother and the father and maybe the physicians. What an absolute clown world. Just point me where any of them said or contemplated infanticide. And as you're a republican, I want the word "infanticide" since you made that point. Not any other word. Sounds to me like northam was including babies with deformities in his description. He was alluding to ending the baby's life after birth, which is infanticide. Its probably best to not get your facts from facebook memes. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion-idUSKBN27D2HL Funny how the fact checkers had to rely on northam's spokesperson's comment that backpedaled on what he actually said: "he was referring to a 'extremely rare case' of a nonviable pregnancy." Nonviable pregnancies were explicitly a subset of what northam was talking about. Also funny that the actual bill northam was talking about was much, much broader than just "severe deformities or nonviable fetuses" (as stated in the totally unbiased fact check). I really don't like piling in on you when you're already getting so many aggressive replies, but I gotta point something out. I can see how one could uncharitably interpret "severe deformities" (the other part of the set) as something cosmetic rather than life-threatening in that context but there's no point getting into that. Take a step back and re-read the post you replied to with that link. The only acceptable example there would have been someone who wore that belief on their sleeve, never someone who at most may have misspoke. Some days ago when people were talking about the Texas GOP debate on capital punishment for women who get abortions you dismissed the talking point as unfair because it's just a few state legislators of little consequence who won't be able to pass the law, but here's the thing, those state legislators repeatedly, unapologetically and unequivocally made those statements. So that is the absolute minimum bar that you yourself have to clear in the other direction.
Well said. Wish you weighed in more often!
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