EPTMy second paragraph wasn't me trying to add anything substantial, it was a lazy attempt at steering it back into the topic of US propaganda, so I wouldn't seem as having derailed the topic. I'm sure (i.e. hope) GH will give you concrete examples pertaining this issue to soothe your hunger as, sadly, I'm afraid I can not.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3263
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium1950 Posts
My second paragraph wasn't me trying to add anything substantial, it was a lazy attempt at steering it back into the topic of US propaganda, so I wouldn't seem as having derailed the topic. I'm sure (i.e. hope) GH will give you concrete examples pertaining this issue to soothe your hunger as, sadly, I'm afraid I can not. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States20920 Posts
On July 23 2021 01:09 Uldridge wrote: Hey Jimmi, no offense was tried to be given. It was a lighthearted jab on the fact that you and GH have locked horns more than once on this forum. I apologize if it struck a wrong chord. My second paragraph wasn't me trying to add anything substantial, it was a lazy attempt at steering it back into the topic of US propaganda, so I wouldn't seem as having derailed the topic. I'm sure (i.e. hope) GH will give you concrete examples pertaining this issue to soothe your hunger as, sadly, I'm afraid I can not. I don't engage with him and haven't for months for the reasons you alluded to among others. For a specific (recently mentioned) example (if you find yourself in want of one in the future) I'd point to the embargo that almost every other country in the world recognizes (and most have for decades) as inhumanely cruel and in violation of the UN charter but the US insists is a humanitarian act for democracy/liberty. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada8081 Posts
On July 23 2021 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't engage with him and haven't for months for the reasons you alluded to among others. For a specific (recently mentioned) example (if you find yourself in want of one in the future) I'd point to the embargo that almost every other country in the world recognizes (and most have for decades) as inhumanely cruel and in violation of the UN charter but the US insists is a humanitarian act for democracy/liberty. The embargo is not propaganda, nor is it taught in schools. And yes you bring that vote up for everything even about things that it explicitly says the opposite of. It is not a catch all that proves every point. The countries do not disagree with the embargo because they think Cuban's have a democracy and personal liberty. I disagree with embargo's in general because they do not remove the people in power. You however agree with embargos as you have called for them to placed on Israel. So my confusion is again on the propaganda part, do you think it is propaganda when the US (and every non dictatorship lead country) calls Cuba a dictatorship? @uldridge I think all people should have to follow the rules on the thread, when they don't I ask for them to provide what they were supposed too. I don't single out GH, he is just one of the people who does it very frequently, he does at times bring interesting perspective and instead of assuming the worst I thought I would ask. I do this to people at all ends and middle of the political spectrum, people stating their assumptions as facts is frustrating and creates major issues. Tone is always hard to tell on a forum and it gets tiresome to have people make shit posts, even joking ones, when I know if I respond in a similar manner there is going to be a 4 page website feedback thread on how awful I am. I'm sorry I took the tone as negative and not light hearted. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10041 Posts
On July 23 2021 04:10 JimmiC wrote: The embargo is not propaganda, nor is it taught in schools. And yes you bring that vote up for everything even about things that it explicitly says the opposite of. It is not a catch all that proves every point. The countries do not disagree with the embargo because they think Cuban's have a democracy and personal liberty. I disagree with embargo's in general because they do not remove the people in power. You however agree with embargos as you have called for them to placed on Israel. So my confusion is again on the propaganda part, do you think it is propaganda when the US (and every non dictatorship lead country) calls Cuba a dictatorship? I don't see GH's post claiming that Cuba is not a dictatorship, neither that the countries against the embargo recognize Cuba as a non-dictatorship, but that the embargo is useless, cruel, and inhumane. Which is something that is voted on very frequently at the UN with similar results since the 90s. And to answer your bolded part, it is propaganda because it is obvious that the US didn't keep the embargo because Cuba is a dictatorship, but because Cuba is not a dictatorship aligned with the US interests. I will ignore Israel's part of your post because you can be against a singular embargo, while still acknowledging the usefulness of embargos. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States20920 Posts
On July 23 2021 13:12 Godwrath wrote: Correct. I don't see GH's post claiming that Cuba is not a dictatorship, neither that the countries against the embargo recognize Cuba as a non-dictatorship, but that the embargo is useless, cruel, and inhumane. Which is something that is voted on very frequently at the UN with similar results since the 90s. And to answer your bolded part, it is propaganda because it is obvious that the US didn't keep the embargo because Cuba is a dictatorship, but because Cuba is not a dictatorship aligned with the US interests. I will ignore Israel's part of your post because you can be against a singular embargo, while still acknowledging the usefulness of embargos. On the Israel thing it was a sarcastic reference to how the US is unilaterally sanctioning Cuba while objecting to a global consensus condemning Israel's crimes against humanity. The US being correct on either is propaganda so ridiculous it is pretty much only accepted in the US (and Israel). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada8081 Posts
On July 23 2021 13:12 Godwrath wrote: I don't see GH's post claiming that Cuba is not a dictatorship, neither that the countries against the embargo recognize Cuba as a non-dictatorship, but that the embargo is useless, cruel, and inhumane. Which is something that is voted on very frequently at the UN with similar results since the 90s. And to answer your bolded part, it is propaganda because it is obvious that the US didn't keep the embargo because Cuba is a dictatorship, but because Cuba is not a dictatorship aligned with the US interests. I will ignore Israel's part of your post because you can be against a singular embargo, while still acknowledging the usefulness of embargos. I don't either, hence why the bolded part is a question. I don't know what he thinks so I ask. Why do you think a question is a statement? If I asked you "Do you think Spain will win the world cup? Would you jump down my throat and say "I never said Spain would win world the cup what is wrong with you? OR would you say "yes I do because... or "No I don't because...." I'm really not sure what the confusion is. In the past GH has said some things about communism being truly democratic and then that Cuba is communist, and that the US is after them because of communism and that the bad we hear is capitalist propaganda. I was wondering if he thought that they were democratic and that the dictatorship part was the propaganda. It is not propaganda about Cuba specifically because they explicitly say that the embargo is because of their communist dictatorship. Their is likely propaganda in schools about socialism though. That Cuba was singled out was interesting and I was wondering why it was chosen given past discussion. + Show Spoiler + If you are about to bring up China, it is because China is not remotely communist You could, which is why I bring it up. The reason countries are against this embargo is because it is unilateral. They are not against it because they think the Cuban government is great. So if you were for a unilateral embargo on one country who is oppressing a group of people, but not for one who is oppressing all their people it would be interesting to find out why. Unilateral embargo's always disproportionately effect the people of a country and not the leadership (see North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, so on). They also have a really shitty track record of creating a change of leadership (see North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, so on). The only way the global community agrees is if they believe the country will be a threat to more then their own people through nuclear arms (see North Korea and Iran (first one). Since no embargo will stop or slow Israel's path to nukes (they have them) a unilateral embargo would only punish the people not the leadership. Targeted measures against the leadership and their friends and families are not unilateral and therefor are generally supported and likely the best tool the international community has, although they also do not have much effect in changing leadership at least they don't punish people for being born and ruled by horrible people. @GH if you are against unilateral embargo's everywhere then good. I read your post that you linked to as those were the reasons you would support unilateral sanctions on Israel (because of the post a couple up where you explicitly say it and no tone existing on a posted message) not that it was hyperbole because of the US blocking any consequence at all. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada8081 Posts
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/baffling-marjorie-taylor-greene-becomes-104745269.html https://ca.yahoo.com/news/rep-matt-gaetz-cut-off-185849273.html | ||
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Belisarius
Australia2589 Posts
It seems more likely that they're trying to retain some ambiguity as a "make your own decision"-type screen. Either way they're both walking disasters so it doesn't change much. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada8081 Posts
On July 24 2021 07:09 Belisarius wrote: Iunno dude is not like they couldn't just lie if they wanted to. Investigative journalism isn't exactly a strong suite for their audience. It seems more likely that they're trying to retain some ambiguity as a "make your own decision"-type screen. Either way they're both walking disasters so it doesn't change much. You are probably right, it just struck me as funny that they are not loud and proud and about being un vaxxed. If it comes out they are vaccinated, that will also be hilarious and not shocking at all. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland17662 Posts
On July 24 2021 07:16 JimmiC wrote: You are probably right, it just struck me as funny that they are not loud and proud and about being un vaxxed. If it comes out they are vaccinated, that will also be hilarious and not shocking at all. ‘If’? I’m not a betting man, which given my problems with impulse control in general is probably a blessing, but if there was a market for ‘have these two got the vaccine?’ Im absolutely putting money down that they have | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States8867 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada8081 Posts
"If it ends up that Biden wins in November...I guarantee you, the week after the election suddenly all those Democratic governors, all those Democratic mayors, will say, 'Everything is magically better. Go back to work, go back to school.' Suddenly, the problems are solved," Cruz said in the July 22 clip. I'd put my money there as well Wombat! https://www.newsweek.com/clip-ted-cruz-saying-democrats-would-say-covid-magically-better-week-after-biden-wins-resurfaces-1549618 | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5188 Posts
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Purressure
97 Posts
Skimming through this section of TL from time to time and usually I just end up shaking my head and laughing. TL is very left winged, which is far from my crop of people but I do have to applaud those who are actually capable of at least trying to stick to facts. Before anyone tries to put me in the Republican corner, think again. The US is a mess though, has been for a while now and contrary to what people were hoping, it's not gonna get any better anytime soon regardless of which party is running the circus. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland17662 Posts
On July 25 2021 16:51 Purressure wrote: Unbiased discussions are impossible when it comes to politics. If the Dems go wrong you'll read "but the Republicans..!" and vice versa. Skimming through this section of TL from time to time and usually I just end up shaking my head and laughing. TL is very left winged, which is far from my crop of people but I do have to applaud those who are actually capable of at least trying to stick to facts. Before anyone tries to put me in the Republican corner, think again. The US is a mess though, has been for a while now and contrary to what people were hoping, it's not gonna get any better anytime soon regardless of which party is running the circus. One wing has to be wrong, broadly speaking. These aside, modern developments are rather disturbing. We’re not disagreeing on quite complicated socio-economic systems or what have you, the modern battlegrounds are indisputable election results or if Covid is real or not. | ||
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Purressure
97 Posts
On July 25 2021 18:48 WombaT wrote: One wing has to be wrong, broadly speaking. These aside, modern developments are rather disturbing. We’re not disagreeing on quite complicated socio-economic systems or what have you, the modern battlegrounds are indisputable election results or if Covid is real or not. Which are 2 topics one shouldn't be fighting about (imo). Yeah, the ballot system etc was poorly managed, not to mention ballots for people who were already deceased etc.. but the only thing I can say about that it was poorly executed and a farce, not going as far as saying the election was rigged, that seems rather impossible to pull off and even if that were the case, nothing has come out to shake the very foundation on which the US has built its system and its democracy, so I see no point in paying any attention to it. If they want to turn the US into Russia and run a "hidden" dictatorship, whoever would try and pull that off would end up dead as US citizens are definitely not as compliant as the Russians, nor do they have the means to keep the citizens under their thumb if something like that were to happen. The reason Biden is still alive is because even in the back of the minds of those screaming fraud they know that's very unlikely to be true, if it were, they wouldn't be part of a very small minority either. Political affiliation is one thing, but rigging and being fraudulent is another, one which even Biden supporters (I assume) wouldn't put up with. My only real issue with Biden is his blatant disregard of the constitution especially in regards with the 2nd amendment, no president has the right to even try and trample any part of the constitution, other than that I couldn't care less about him nor Trump or any other clown at the top, as that's what they are in my eyes, clowns, completely disconnected from reality and are only in it for their own agenda. The people will never be the first priority of any politician, anyone thinking otherwise should wake up, which is why I value the constitution so much, it's the one thing we can go back to when all else fails, hence my issue with Biden. Covid, in my case as I work for one of the major pharma companies in the world, that's even more bizarre to fight about. People dying left and right all with the same symptoms but it can't possibly be one culprit? Awkward to think like that. Granted there are definitely cases where the c.o.d. is said to be covid when it wasn't, but to pull that off with millions of deaths would be a stretch too far. Anyone arguing about whether covid is real or not should look in the mirror and look for a tin foiled hat. | ||
KwarK
United States38760 Posts
Take the guns first, go through due process second Can you cite what he’s done to violate the constitution? | ||
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Purressure
97 Posts
On July 25 2021 23:32 KwarK wrote: What has Biden done with regard to the second amendment that you object to? Presumably he’s never said anything remotely as threatening as Can you cite what he’s done to violate the constitution? He's mentioned targeting assault rifles, braces etc among other stuff that have really made it obvious he doesn't care about the 2nd amendment. The 2a community is far from happy with him because of his plans (or at least what he claims to be his plans) which is a violation of the 2nd amendment if he were to actually push for it. The man can barely explain what an assault rifle is and when he tried he was actually wrong, so having him making such statements is just obnoxious, he barely knows what he's talking about but continues to repeat statements regarding targeting the aforementioned stuff. Anyhow, if he actually goes for it, he's trampling the 2nd amendment. | ||
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KwarK
United States38760 Posts
On July 26 2021 00:11 Purressure wrote: He's mentioned targeting assault rifles, braces etc among other stuff that have really made it obvious he doesn't care about the 2nd amendment. The 2a community is far from happy with him because of his plans (or at least what he claims to be his plans) which is a violation of the 2nd amendment if he were to actually push for it. The man can barely explain what an assault rifle is and when he tried he was actually wrong, so having him making such statements is just obnoxious, he barely knows what he's talking about but continues to repeat statements regarding targeting the aforementioned stuff. Anyhow, if he actually goes for it, he's trampling the 2nd amendment. Please provide quotes the way I did rather than just asserting that the quotes exist. If he actually goes for it then what? It’s the constitution, it’s not in his power to change. Do you recall the 2A hysteria in 2008 when Obama was elected? After Sandy Hook? In 2012? How many times can right wing media play this record without you noticing you’ve heard it before. If they were coming for your guns they’d have your guns by now. By all means find him obnoxious, it’s a free country and I don’t much care for the man. But don’t pretend that you think that there’s any chance of him actually banning guns. That’s just not how the constitution works. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands16133 Posts
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