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Really bizzare what they expected to happen. Clearly not doing anything about rent relief means that there's going to be a massive market upheaval when the rate of homelessness skyrockets and landlords have to report massive losses from the pandemic. These stories of people foreclosing on apartments they can't rent and people being homeless will be etched into the eyes of people for the midterms.
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On July 28 2021 08:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2021 10:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 18 2021 16:42 RKC wrote:
Partially or even fully vaccinated people can still be carriers and spread infection (90%+ effectiveness rate of vaccines against Delta variant is only against hospitalisation, not infection). UK Health Minister Sajid Javid just tested positive despite receiving double dose of Pfizer.
That's why it is rather unwise, if not irresponsible, for authorities to dangle 'vaccination' as a carrot for people to be exempted from SOPs on mask and social-distancing. Some small exemptions may be given (eg counted as 0 or 0.5 person in indoor crowd maximum limits), but not from all or major preventive measures.
Some people get vaccinated simply so that they can 'get their lives back to normal'. That's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, because they are likely to exert political pressure on governments to loosen restrictions (or go round without mask and not social distance). Vaccinated or not, just follow the rules and weather the storm. Vaccination shouldn't be seen as a 'privilege' or 'passport' to be above public health guidelines when the pandemic is still ongoing. On July 18 2021 23:01 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2021 22:34 HolydaKing wrote:
Wouldn't it typically take more than 2 weeks for people to die? Especially if they get hospitalized. But yeah, no doubt that due to the vaccines there won't be that many people dying. How many people will get long covid though? And generally people getting ill isn't good so I'm not a fan of what the UK is doing, opening up when the numbers are skyrocketing. Who could have possibly predicted this would happen? It’s quite frustrating, yeah Covid times haven’t been fun for many but we couldn’t hold on a few months longer? It’s like running 25 miles of a marathon and then going ‘fuck it, I’m going home’ at the last stretch. When Biden announced the 4th of July goal and indicated things would open whether we hit it or not it was clear to me that the economic/political motivations outweighed the science/public health considerations for the Biden administration (as well as many governors and mayors). I suppose it's less bad/stupid than what Trump would do, but I imagine that's of little consolation to the people who will suffer/die as a result of it. CDC is finally at least recommending that people go back to wearing masks indoors anywhere the map is orange/red (should probably be the more populated/borderline yellow areas too). Seemed obvious the US should not have stopped requiring masking or opened things up so much. Going to make it a lot harder to get people/businesses to go back. Particularly as they aren't requiring it, but recommending it. There was never any serious plan to effectuate a "only unvaccinated people are required/need to wear masks" policy that was necessary to make the "vaccinated people don't need to wear masks anymore" dream a reality. Didn't stop the Biden administration/CDC as well as governors/mayors around the country in both parties from pushing forward with such piss poor planning/policy though.
It would be great if something as simple as recommending masks indoors will significantly limit the spread of the Delta variant, but it won't. The big spreader will be young people partying, and good luck stopping them from doing that after what they have gone through.
There will be a whole bunch of cases, but if people in the risks groups are vaccinated, the hospitals won't be in overloaded. The number of covid-19 patients in the hospitals of the UK is declining already, and it peaked just over 6k compared to over 39k in January.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
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On August 01 2021 14:15 Zambrah wrote:
Theres also basically 0% chance it actually gets dealt with, if they couldnt even get an extension on the moratorium then they have absolutely no hope of actually dealing with the impending eviction and homelessness crisis.
They should've taken strong consistent action as soon as Biden was in office and Congress was owned by Democrats, instead its been inaction and its going to be a really hard to sympathize look going into the midterms, and thats leaving out the failure to protect voting rights, so the flurry of localized Republican legislation designed to suppress voters is going to eat them alive going into 2022.
I do wonder whether the headlines will go with "Bidenvilles" or "Bidonvilles"?
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On August 01 2021 17:28 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2021 08:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 19 2021 10:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 18 2021 16:42 RKC wrote:
Partially or even fully vaccinated people can still be carriers and spread infection (90%+ effectiveness rate of vaccines against Delta variant is only against hospitalisation, not infection). UK Health Minister Sajid Javid just tested positive despite receiving double dose of Pfizer.
That's why it is rather unwise, if not irresponsible, for authorities to dangle 'vaccination' as a carrot for people to be exempted from SOPs on mask and social-distancing. Some small exemptions may be given (eg counted as 0 or 0.5 person in indoor crowd maximum limits), but not from all or major preventive measures.
Some people get vaccinated simply so that they can 'get their lives back to normal'. That's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, because they are likely to exert political pressure on governments to loosen restrictions (or go round without mask and not social distance). Vaccinated or not, just follow the rules and weather the storm. Vaccination shouldn't be seen as a 'privilege' or 'passport' to be above public health guidelines when the pandemic is still ongoing. On July 18 2021 23:01 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2021 22:34 HolydaKing wrote:
Wouldn't it typically take more than 2 weeks for people to die? Especially if they get hospitalized. But yeah, no doubt that due to the vaccines there won't be that many people dying. How many people will get long covid though? And generally people getting ill isn't good so I'm not a fan of what the UK is doing, opening up when the numbers are skyrocketing. Who could have possibly predicted this would happen? It’s quite frustrating, yeah Covid times haven’t been fun for many but we couldn’t hold on a few months longer? It’s like running 25 miles of a marathon and then going ‘fuck it, I’m going home’ at the last stretch. When Biden announced the 4th of July goal and indicated things would open whether we hit it or not it was clear to me that the economic/political motivations outweighed the science/public health considerations for the Biden administration (as well as many governors and mayors). I suppose it's less bad/stupid than what Trump would do, but I imagine that's of little consolation to the people who will suffer/die as a result of it. CDC is finally at least recommending that people go back to wearing masks indoors anywhere the map is orange/red (should probably be the more populated/borderline yellow areas too). https://twitter.com/MarchForScience/status/1420108871268552711Seemed obvious the US should not have stopped requiring masking or opened things up so much. Going to make it a lot harder to get people/businesses to go back. Particularly as they aren't requiring it, but recommending it. There was never any serious plan to effectuate a "only unvaccinated people are required/need to wear masks" policy that was necessary to make the "vaccinated people don't need to wear masks anymore" dream a reality. Didn't stop the Biden administration/CDC as well as governors/mayors around the country in both parties from pushing forward with such piss poor planning/policy though. It would be great if something as simple as recommending masks indoors will significantly limit the spread of the Delta variant, but it won't. The big spreader will be young people partying, and good luck stopping them from doing that after what they have gone through. There will be a whole bunch of cases, but if people in the risks groups are vaccinated, the hospitals won't be in overloaded. The number of covid-19 patients in the hospitals of the UK is declining already, and it peaked just over 6k compared to over 39k in January. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare UK vaccination rates are far superior to the troubled regions in the US.
That's the problem and its a hard problem to solve because the issue isn't a lack of ability to vaccinate them but because the people don't want to do it.
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On August 01 2021 17:28 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2021 08:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 19 2021 10:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 18 2021 16:42 RKC wrote:
Partially or even fully vaccinated people can still be carriers and spread infection (90%+ effectiveness rate of vaccines against Delta variant is only against hospitalisation, not infection). UK Health Minister Sajid Javid just tested positive despite receiving double dose of Pfizer.
That's why it is rather unwise, if not irresponsible, for authorities to dangle 'vaccination' as a carrot for people to be exempted from SOPs on mask and social-distancing. Some small exemptions may be given (eg counted as 0 or 0.5 person in indoor crowd maximum limits), but not from all or major preventive measures.
Some people get vaccinated simply so that they can 'get their lives back to normal'. That's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, because they are likely to exert political pressure on governments to loosen restrictions (or go round without mask and not social distance). Vaccinated or not, just follow the rules and weather the storm. Vaccination shouldn't be seen as a 'privilege' or 'passport' to be above public health guidelines when the pandemic is still ongoing. On July 18 2021 23:01 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2021 22:34 HolydaKing wrote:
Wouldn't it typically take more than 2 weeks for people to die? Especially if they get hospitalized. But yeah, no doubt that due to the vaccines there won't be that many people dying. How many people will get long covid though? And generally people getting ill isn't good so I'm not a fan of what the UK is doing, opening up when the numbers are skyrocketing. Who could have possibly predicted this would happen? It’s quite frustrating, yeah Covid times haven’t been fun for many but we couldn’t hold on a few months longer? It’s like running 25 miles of a marathon and then going ‘fuck it, I’m going home’ at the last stretch. When Biden announced the 4th of July goal and indicated things would open whether we hit it or not it was clear to me that the economic/political motivations outweighed the science/public health considerations for the Biden administration (as well as many governors and mayors). I suppose it's less bad/stupid than what Trump would do, but I imagine that's of little consolation to the people who will suffer/die as a result of it. CDC is finally at least recommending that people go back to wearing masks indoors anywhere the map is orange/red (should probably be the more populated/borderline yellow areas too). https://twitter.com/MarchForScience/status/1420108871268552711Seemed obvious the US should not have stopped requiring masking or opened things up so much. Going to make it a lot harder to get people/businesses to go back. Particularly as they aren't requiring it, but recommending it. There was never any serious plan to effectuate a "only unvaccinated people are required/need to wear masks" policy that was necessary to make the "vaccinated people don't need to wear masks anymore" dream a reality. Didn't stop the Biden administration/CDC as well as governors/mayors around the country in both parties from pushing forward with such piss poor planning/policy though. It would be great if something as simple as recommending masks indoors will significantly limit the spread of the Delta variant, but it won't. The big spreader will be young people partying, and good luck stopping them from doing that after what they have gone through. There will be a whole bunch of cases, but if people in the risks groups are vaccinated, the hospitals won't be in overloaded. The number of covid-19 patients in the hospitals of the UK is declining already, and it peaked just over 6k compared to over 39k in January. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
Blaming the spread of the delta variant on young people partying is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? There are plenty of non-vaccinated older adults spreading it by not following simple preventative guidelines.
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On August 01 2021 18:14 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2021 17:28 Slydie wrote:On July 28 2021 08:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 19 2021 10:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 18 2021 16:42 RKC wrote:
Partially or even fully vaccinated people can still be carriers and spread infection (90%+ effectiveness rate of vaccines against Delta variant is only against hospitalisation, not infection). UK Health Minister Sajid Javid just tested positive despite receiving double dose of Pfizer.
That's why it is rather unwise, if not irresponsible, for authorities to dangle 'vaccination' as a carrot for people to be exempted from SOPs on mask and social-distancing. Some small exemptions may be given (eg counted as 0 or 0.5 person in indoor crowd maximum limits), but not from all or major preventive measures.
Some people get vaccinated simply so that they can 'get their lives back to normal'. That's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, because they are likely to exert political pressure on governments to loosen restrictions (or go round without mask and not social distance). Vaccinated or not, just follow the rules and weather the storm. Vaccination shouldn't be seen as a 'privilege' or 'passport' to be above public health guidelines when the pandemic is still ongoing. On July 18 2021 23:01 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2021 22:34 HolydaKing wrote:
Wouldn't it typically take more than 2 weeks for people to die? Especially if they get hospitalized. But yeah, no doubt that due to the vaccines there won't be that many people dying. How many people will get long covid though? And generally people getting ill isn't good so I'm not a fan of what the UK is doing, opening up when the numbers are skyrocketing. Who could have possibly predicted this would happen? It’s quite frustrating, yeah Covid times haven’t been fun for many but we couldn’t hold on a few months longer? It’s like running 25 miles of a marathon and then going ‘fuck it, I’m going home’ at the last stretch. When Biden announced the 4th of July goal and indicated things would open whether we hit it or not it was clear to me that the economic/political motivations outweighed the science/public health considerations for the Biden administration (as well as many governors and mayors). I suppose it's less bad/stupid than what Trump would do, but I imagine that's of little consolation to the people who will suffer/die as a result of it. CDC is finally at least recommending that people go back to wearing masks indoors anywhere the map is orange/red (should probably be the more populated/borderline yellow areas too). https://twitter.com/MarchForScience/status/1420108871268552711Seemed obvious the US should not have stopped requiring masking or opened things up so much. Going to make it a lot harder to get people/businesses to go back. Particularly as they aren't requiring it, but recommending it. There was never any serious plan to effectuate a "only unvaccinated people are required/need to wear masks" policy that was necessary to make the "vaccinated people don't need to wear masks anymore" dream a reality. Didn't stop the Biden administration/CDC as well as governors/mayors around the country in both parties from pushing forward with such piss poor planning/policy though. It would be great if something as simple as recommending masks indoors will significantly limit the spread of the Delta variant, but it won't. The big spreader will be young people partying, and good luck stopping them from doing that after what they have gone through. There will be a whole bunch of cases, but if people in the risks groups are vaccinated, the hospitals won't be in overloaded. The number of covid-19 patients in the hospitals of the UK is declining already, and it peaked just over 6k compared to over 39k in January. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare UK vaccination rates are far superior to the troubled regions in the US. That's the problem and its a hard problem to solve because the issue isn't a lack of ability to vaccinate them but because the people don't want to do it.
This is all you need to read. The ignorance of people who refuse to get it because of misinformation and politics is the sole purpose.
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On August 01 2021 14:15 Zambrah wrote:
Theres also basically 0% chance it actually gets dealt with, if they couldnt even get an extension on the moratorium then they have absolutely no hope of actually dealing with the impending eviction and homelessness crisis.
They should've taken strong consistent action as soon as Biden was in office and Congress was owned by Democrats, instead its been inaction and its going to be a really hard to sympathize look going into the midterms, and thats leaving out the failure to protect voting rights, so the flurry of localized Republican legislation designed to suppress voters is going to eat them alive going into 2022.
It all suggests that despite the big talk about all the things they'll get done and the zealous insistence from Biden advocates that he has done and will do great things as president, that they're not very serious about solving any of the problems they said they would. If a majority in both houses and the presidency still lead to a situation where they're just making excuses for inaction rather than making progress, then the making of excuses was probably the goal all along rather than the legislation.
Oh well. Time to turn the evictions back on, it seems.
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Do you guys expect Biden/Whoever just stop evictions or/and rent collection forever?
What would you actually like to be done here to really solve this? Just blaming «greedy» Landlords seems a really easy and stupid solution. Especially because at least some of you allready declared Landlords to be the enemy of the people way before Corona.
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Maybe at least until the pandemic is over.
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On August 03 2021 16:18 Zambrah wrote:
Maybe at least until the pandemic is over.
The Pandemic could last years. Theres been a few articles that the strain in Peru could have some vaccine resistance due to spike protein mutations
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Yeah, it could be a long haul situation, but like... so what right? I mean its the government's duty to provide for it's people, if it has to be for a long haul then it's going to be a long haul and we and the government should buckle up.
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Thats an entirely diffrent argument than just "stoppig evictions from being allowed".
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I think supporting people through the long haul of Covid involves some amount of prevention for eviction and homelessness given a year+ of lost income.
Obviously thats not the only thing that should happen/have happened, and a mortgage freeze would have been great, in fact any major form of debt should probably have just been frozen and rolled over.
Really seems like we're coming to a point where the government is going to be more concerned with making it seem like Covids over and beaten than doing anything to combat the effect Covid has had on a lot of people.
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On August 01 2021 22:47 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2021 17:28 Slydie wrote:On July 28 2021 08:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 19 2021 10:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 18 2021 16:42 RKC wrote:
Partially or even fully vaccinated people can still be carriers and spread infection (90%+ effectiveness rate of vaccines against Delta variant is only against hospitalisation, not infection). UK Health Minister Sajid Javid just tested positive despite receiving double dose of Pfizer.
That's why it is rather unwise, if not irresponsible, for authorities to dangle 'vaccination' as a carrot for people to be exempted from SOPs on mask and social-distancing. Some small exemptions may be given (eg counted as 0 or 0.5 person in indoor crowd maximum limits), but not from all or major preventive measures.
Some people get vaccinated simply so that they can 'get their lives back to normal'. That's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, because they are likely to exert political pressure on governments to loosen restrictions (or go round without mask and not social distance). Vaccinated or not, just follow the rules and weather the storm. Vaccination shouldn't be seen as a 'privilege' or 'passport' to be above public health guidelines when the pandemic is still ongoing. On July 18 2021 23:01 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2021 22:34 HolydaKing wrote:
Wouldn't it typically take more than 2 weeks for people to die? Especially if they get hospitalized. But yeah, no doubt that due to the vaccines there won't be that many people dying. How many people will get long covid though? And generally people getting ill isn't good so I'm not a fan of what the UK is doing, opening up when the numbers are skyrocketing. Who could have possibly predicted this would happen? It’s quite frustrating, yeah Covid times haven’t been fun for many but we couldn’t hold on a few months longer? It’s like running 25 miles of a marathon and then going ‘fuck it, I’m going home’ at the last stretch. When Biden announced the 4th of July goal and indicated things would open whether we hit it or not it was clear to me that the economic/political motivations outweighed the science/public health considerations for the Biden administration (as well as many governors and mayors). I suppose it's less bad/stupid than what Trump would do, but I imagine that's of little consolation to the people who will suffer/die as a result of it. CDC is finally at least recommending that people go back to wearing masks indoors anywhere the map is orange/red (should probably be the more populated/borderline yellow areas too). https://twitter.com/MarchForScience/status/1420108871268552711Seemed obvious the US should not have stopped requiring masking or opened things up so much. Going to make it a lot harder to get people/businesses to go back. Particularly as they aren't requiring it, but recommending it. There was never any serious plan to effectuate a "only unvaccinated people are required/need to wear masks" policy that was necessary to make the "vaccinated people don't need to wear masks anymore" dream a reality. Didn't stop the Biden administration/CDC as well as governors/mayors around the country in both parties from pushing forward with such piss poor planning/policy though. It would be great if something as simple as recommending masks indoors will significantly limit the spread of the Delta variant, but it won't. The big spreader will be young people partying, and good luck stopping them from doing that after what they have gone through. There will be a whole bunch of cases, but if people in the risks groups are vaccinated, the hospitals won't be in overloaded. The number of covid-19 patients in the hospitals of the UK is declining already, and it peaked just over 6k compared to over 39k in January. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare Blaming the spread of the delta variant on young people partying is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? There are plenty of non-vaccinated older adults spreading it by not following simple preventative guidelines.
Except, most the "preventative guidelines" are stupid and don't work, including non-N95 mask mandates or recommendations.
Vaccines work, staying home and outdoors works, all the mask and 6 foot voodoo indoors absolutely does not. It might work under very specific lab conditions, but IRL they don't, because transmission is by a different, still not fully modeled pathway.
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United States43672 Posts
Staying further away from each other indoors surely works. Unless we have smart target seeking respiratory particles it is reasonable to assume that there are more closer to the source and fewer as you get further from the source. You’re more likely to catch it if the infected person is hugging you than if they’re far away.
I don’t have the research to justify 6ft as an ideal cutoff point and the cynic in me thinks that it was chosen because it’s an arm span and easy to identify. But the message of not standing too closely in an enclosed space is surely good.
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On August 04 2021 00:10 Zambrah wrote:
I think supporting people through the long haul of Covid involves some amount of prevention for eviction and homelessness given a year+ of lost income.
Obviously thats not the only thing that should happen/have happened, and a mortgage freeze would have been great, in fact any major form of debt should probably have just been frozen and rolled over.
Really seems like we're coming to a point where the government is going to be more concerned with making it seem like Covids over and beaten than doing anything to combat the effect Covid has had on a lot of people.
Half of the political sphere in the US allways said Covid was over. The other us frustrated that people stopped vaxing and has no clue what to do about it.
People that need it for sure should get help, but just halting extractions whiteout any further measures directly adressing the brewing (enlarging) homelessnes crysis seems to be such a stupid and shortsighted "solution". Sooner or later people will have to pay rent again, for the whole time they used the flat/house. Just stopping eviction is like giving morphine to a guy that just lost 2 legs and is dieing of bloodloss. It also fucks over plenty of people that invested their lives earnings into becoming a landlord.
Yes, plenty of big evil companies can probably take the hit. Plenty of afluent upper middle class can't. Destroying your upper middle class isn't good policy.
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On August 04 2021 01:01 KwarK wrote:
I don’t have the research to justify 6ft as an ideal cutoff point and the cynic in me thinks that it was chosen because it’s an arm span and easy to identify. But the message of not standing too closely in an enclosed space is surely good.
There was an article in Wired recently about how the 6 feet recommendation, and the early insistence on covid being spread by droplet rather than aerosol, was based on outdated research that had become entrenched. It's interesting how even in the modern day with internet there still remain blindspots like this.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
A Few days after the April Zoom meeting with the WHO, Marr got an email from another aerosol scientist who had been on the call, an atmospheric chemist at the University of Colorado Boulder named Jose-Luis Jimenez. He’d become fixated on the WHO recommendation that people stay 3 to 6 feet apart from one another. As far as he could tell, that social distancing guideline seemed to be based on a few studies from the 1930s and ’40s. But the authors of those experiments actually argued for the possibility of airborne transmission, which by definition would involve distances over 6 feet. None of it seemed to add up.
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United States43672 Posts
But surely that agrees with more distance = good. The density of the virus goes down as the distance goes up. The closer you are to the source of the aerosol source, the higher the concentration.
Not arguing that 6ft is magical barrier, just that “don’t stand so close to people” is a fundamentally good message for this pandemic.
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Oh yeah I wasn't trying to dispute that. Just wanted to share that story talking about how the 6 feet number was arrived at.
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EPT
