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On June 16 2018 00:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
I kind of wonder if this is a "hey we are kicking you out" -> "you can't kick me out, I'm leaving!" scenario.
I'm trying to understand any rationale for leaving the UN Human Rights Council, coming up with nothing.
I think the stated reason is essentially they're too mean to Israel. But I mean honestly, looking back Trump's been pretty consistent on the issue of human rights. He's pro-torture, advocated for killing terrorists' families, doles out unqualified praise to dictators who torture and massacre their own people, separates immigrant children from their families... the only position I can remember him taking against a human rights abuse is chemical weapons. In all other circumstances, I think the simplest explanation is that Trump doesn't believe in human rights and opposes human rights protections.
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On June 16 2018 00:46 ticklishmusic wrote:https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1007617992853684225I kind of wonder if this is a "hey we are kicking you out" -> "you can't kick me out, I'm leaving!" scenario. I'm trying to understand any rationale for leaving the UN Human Rights Council, coming up with nothing.
iirc the UNHRC is a very poorly run body which doesn't do anything for actual human rights; and spends a lot of time hating on Israel.
given trump's very pro-israel actions it'd fit in with that.
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On June 16 2018 02:15 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 02:01 Danglars wrote:On June 16 2018 00:46 ticklishmusic wrote:https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1007617992853684225I kind of wonder if this is a "hey we are kicking you out" -> "you can't kick me out, I'm leaving!" scenario. I'm trying to understand any rationale for leaving the UN Human Rights Council, coming up with nothing. The article does cite the underlying reasons. I suggest review. I personally agree with them. I think Bush also did the right thing back when he made a similar choice. Right after some stupidity in talks/interviews in the wake of the North Korean summit, and ill-conceived tariffs, Trump mixes in something great I can support. I can see your point. Why would you want to belong to an organization that points out when you are behaving illegally?
Well, from your view it’s hatred for exposing America’s illegality, and from mine, you’d rather take your human rights cues from the likes of Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and China if it works to spite America.
That’s something you’ll have to come to terms with for yourself. I don’t actually support their human rights record or ability to speak on others, so being a part of some intergovernmental organization on human rights with them as members is a disgrace. But you do you on human rights bedfellows.
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I love that this one President is undoing 70 years of work because is to cowardly to stand up to him. If people wanted political change, Trump will cause it. It is just a question of how far down the rabbit hole we need to go. My bet, one step short of Great Depression 2.0.
These taxes, I mean tariffs are going to hurt.
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Well he actually didn't throw the bus but showed some sympathy for the guy he hardly knew his friend Manafort. He also shows a lack of even basic understanding by saying a bail revoke is a sentence. But can't expect a president to know such things. Poor poor Manafort, it's so unfair.
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On June 16 2018 02:42 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 02:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 16 2018 02:01 Danglars wrote:On June 16 2018 00:46 ticklishmusic wrote:https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1007617992853684225I kind of wonder if this is a "hey we are kicking you out" -> "you can't kick me out, I'm leaving!" scenario. I'm trying to understand any rationale for leaving the UN Human Rights Council, coming up with nothing. The article does cite the underlying reasons. I suggest review. I personally agree with them. I think Bush also did the right thing back when he made a similar choice. Right after some stupidity in talks/interviews in the wake of the North Korean summit, and ill-conceived tariffs, Trump mixes in something great I can support. I can see your point. Why would you want to belong to an organization that points out when you are behaving illegally? Well, from your view it’s hatred for exposing America’s illegality, and from mine, you’d rather take your human rights cues from the likes of Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and China if it works to spite America. That’s something you’ll have to come to terms with for yourself. I don’t actually support their human rights record or ability to speak on others, so being a part of some intergovernmental organization on human rights with them as members is a disgrace. But you do you on human rights bedfellows.
Truthfully, having the US on the council - the country that ran (still runs?) Gitmo - is a bit of an embarrassment so it's probably for the best that they leave.
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On June 16 2018 03:16 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 02:42 Danglars wrote:On June 16 2018 02:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 16 2018 02:01 Danglars wrote:On June 16 2018 00:46 ticklishmusic wrote:https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1007617992853684225I kind of wonder if this is a "hey we are kicking you out" -> "you can't kick me out, I'm leaving!" scenario. I'm trying to understand any rationale for leaving the UN Human Rights Council, coming up with nothing. The article does cite the underlying reasons. I suggest review. I personally agree with them. I think Bush also did the right thing back when he made a similar choice. Right after some stupidity in talks/interviews in the wake of the North Korean summit, and ill-conceived tariffs, Trump mixes in something great I can support. I can see your point. Why would you want to belong to an organization that points out when you are behaving illegally? Well, from your view it’s hatred for exposing America’s illegality, and from mine, you’d rather take your human rights cues from the likes of Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and China if it works to spite America. That’s something you’ll have to come to terms with for yourself. I don’t actually support their human rights record or ability to speak on others, so being a part of some intergovernmental organization on human rights with them as members is a disgrace. But you do you on human rights bedfellows. Truthfully, having the US on the council - the country that ran (still runs?) Gitmo - is a bit of an embarrassment so it's probably for the best that they leave.
considering who else is in the council, I don't think that matters so much.
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On June 16 2018 03:20 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 03:16 iamthedave wrote:On June 16 2018 02:42 Danglars wrote:On June 16 2018 02:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 16 2018 02:01 Danglars wrote:On June 16 2018 00:46 ticklishmusic wrote:https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1007617992853684225I kind of wonder if this is a "hey we are kicking you out" -> "you can't kick me out, I'm leaving!" scenario. I'm trying to understand any rationale for leaving the UN Human Rights Council, coming up with nothing. The article does cite the underlying reasons. I suggest review. I personally agree with them. I think Bush also did the right thing back when he made a similar choice. Right after some stupidity in talks/interviews in the wake of the North Korean summit, and ill-conceived tariffs, Trump mixes in something great I can support. I can see your point. Why would you want to belong to an organization that points out when you are behaving illegally? Well, from your view it’s hatred for exposing America’s illegality, and from mine, you’d rather take your human rights cues from the likes of Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and China if it works to spite America. That’s something you’ll have to come to terms with for yourself. I don’t actually support their human rights record or ability to speak on others, so being a part of some intergovernmental organization on human rights with them as members is a disgrace. But you do you on human rights bedfellows. Truthfully, having the US on the council - the country that ran (still runs?) Gitmo - is a bit of an embarrassment so it's probably for the best that they leave. considering who else is in the council, I don't think that matters so much.
I can't square the Trump administration's open approval of the Kim regime's torture and oppression policies with the mission of the human rights council. DJT is pretty open about wanting obedience from his subjects. Check out his latest statements saying he would have Kim in the white house and wanting the same kind of obedience from his american subjects that Kim gets from his people.
"He's the head of a country, and I mean he's the strong head. Don't let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same." (via FOX)
+ Show Spoiler +
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My favorite part about the immigration debate going on right now is the Trump wants to separate children from their families, but doesn’t want the blame. So he says it’s due to a law created by the democrats, which is just a straight up lie. Also:
Oh, that is how law works now, huh?
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On June 15 2018 12:29 Plansix wrote:
Jeff Sessions continues to remind us all why the wife of MLK wrote a letter to congress explaining why Sessions shouldn’t be a judge. Using the Bible to justify separating families and building a tent village to house the children.
Again, we are building prison camps for children.
Oh good, does this mean we can finally declare that anyone who uses the statue of liberty as an argument for immigration is an idiot? I hear that a lot. Can we *handshake* on both of these things being stupid?
Regarding separating children at the border, can you fill me in on the problem? Are you wanting them to be put in the same prison / cell / detainment facility as their parents? What explanation has there been for why we wouldn't do that? Are you unhappy about the quality of the accommodations? I'm not really sure what exactly your complaint is.
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On June 16 2018 03:48 Plansix wrote:My favorite part about the immigration debate going on right now is the Trump wants to separate children from their families, but doesn’t want the blame. So he says it’s due to a law created by the democrats, which is just a straight up lie. Also: https://twitter.com/C_Sommerfeldt/status/1007690889504927745Oh, that is how law works now, huh?
Pardons are for crooks, not kids!
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On June 16 2018 03:01 Plansix wrote:
I love that this one President is undoing 70 years of work because [congress] is to cowardly to stand up to him. If people wanted political change, Trump will cause it. It is just a question of how far down the rabbit hole we need to go. My bet, one step short of Great Depression 2.0.
These taxes, I mean tariffs are going to hurt.
This makes no sense to me.
Of course congress isn't standing up to him. Hell Democrats aren't even standing up to him, why would Republicans oppose their president?
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On June 16 2018 03:03 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Well he actually didn't throw the bus but showed some sympathy for the guy he hardly knew his friend Manafort. He also shows a lack of even basic understanding by saying a bail revoke is a sentence. But can't expect a president to know such things. Poor poor Manafort, it's so unfair. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1007679422865006593
Trump has to be careful here. Manafort knows things.
Does everyone remember when Manafort was asked about Russian connections to Trump? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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On June 16 2018 04:31 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 03:48 Plansix wrote:My favorite part about the immigration debate going on right now is the Trump wants to separate children from their families, but doesn’t want the blame. So he says it’s due to a law created by the democrats, which is just a straight up lie. Also: https://twitter.com/C_Sommerfeldt/status/1007690889504927745Oh, that is how law works now, huh? Pardons are for crooks, not kids!
we should start a Pardon Party whose main platform is to pardon as many people as possible. you can abolish the prison system by electing one person to the Presidency
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On June 16 2018 04:58 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 04:31 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On June 16 2018 03:48 Plansix wrote:My favorite part about the immigration debate going on right now is the Trump wants to separate children from their families, but doesn’t want the blame. So he says it’s due to a law created by the democrats, which is just a straight up lie. Also: https://twitter.com/C_Sommerfeldt/status/1007690889504927745Oh, that is how law works now, huh? Pardons are for crooks, not kids! we should start a Pardon Party whose main platform is to pardon as many people as possible. you can abolish the prison system by electing one person to the Presidency
People don't realize how important this makes Prosecutors races. They are often not even contested despite having more practical control over the criminal justice system than legislatures.
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On June 16 2018 04:17 PeTraSoHot wrote:Oh good, does this mean we can finally declare that anyone who uses the statue of liberty as an argument for immigration is an idiot? I hear that a lot. Can we *handshake* on both of these things being stupid? Regarding separating children at the border, can you fill me in on the problem? Are you wanting them to be put in the same prison / cell / detainment facility as their parents? What explanation has there been for why we wouldn't do that? Are you unhappy about the quality of the accommodations? I'm not really sure what exactly your complaint is.
The children should remain with their parents, rather than in another state in a separate facility. Is this a real question?
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On June 16 2018 04:58 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 04:31 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On June 16 2018 03:48 Plansix wrote:My favorite part about the immigration debate going on right now is the Trump wants to separate children from their families, but doesn’t want the blame. So he says it’s due to a law created by the democrats, which is just a straight up lie. Also: https://twitter.com/C_Sommerfeldt/status/1007690889504927745Oh, that is how law works now, huh? Pardons are for crooks, not kids! we should start a Pardon Party whose main platform is to pardon as many people as possible. you can abolish the prison system by electing one person to the Presidency
Trump may be the head of it. Though I'm not sure how pardoning people stops Mueller's investigation.
He was never going for an indictment, so pardons dont stop him from putting stuff he was told in his report afaik. This really only affects Manafort since everyone else has already told Mueller what they know to put in his report or they have state charges pending which makes the idea of pardons less helpful.
I'm not sure the benefit of pardons would actually outweigh the cost for Trump. But he may feel he has mo other choice. Especially in light of stuff like this.
Edit: appears twitter doent work in spoilers...
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On June 16 2018 05:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 04:17 PeTraSoHot wrote:Oh good, does this mean we can finally declare that anyone who uses the statue of liberty as an argument for immigration is an idiot? I hear that a lot. Can we *handshake* on both of these things being stupid? Regarding separating children at the border, can you fill me in on the problem? Are you wanting them to be put in the same prison / cell / detainment facility as their parents? What explanation has there been for why we wouldn't do that? Are you unhappy about the quality of the accommodations? I'm not really sure what exactly your complaint is. The children should remain with their parents, rather than in another state in a separate facility. Is this a real question?
There were a bunch of real questions. You didn't answer any of them. I also don't think it is policy that children of illegals need to be brought to another state, nor have I suggested that. I also bet that in whatever few examples you have of this happening, the other state the child is taken to happens to be adjacent to the state their parent is in. I'll bet you don't know of a case where the parents were locked up in Arizona and the kid was sent to a facility in Ohio. This probably has to do more with locations of facilities rather than cruel ICE agents deciding to inflict the emotional harm of bringing the child to another state, regardless of how far away the other facility actually is.
Are you able to answer those questions I asked? I would add the question 'Was this also happening under Obama?'
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On June 16 2018 05:39 PeTraSoHot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2018 05:14 Plansix wrote:On June 16 2018 04:17 PeTraSoHot wrote:Oh good, does this mean we can finally declare that anyone who uses the statue of liberty as an argument for immigration is an idiot? I hear that a lot. Can we *handshake* on both of these things being stupid? Regarding separating children at the border, can you fill me in on the problem? Are you wanting them to be put in the same prison / cell / detainment facility as their parents? What explanation has there been for why we wouldn't do that? Are you unhappy about the quality of the accommodations? I'm not really sure what exactly your complaint is. The children should remain with their parents, rather than in another state in a separate facility. Is this a real question? There were a bunch of real questions. You didn't answer any of them. I also don't think it is policy that children of illegals need to be brought to another state, nor have I suggested that. I also bet that in whatever few examples you have of this happening, the other state the child is taken to happens to be adjacent to the state their parent is in. I'll bet you don't know of a case where the parents were locked up in Arizona and the kid was sent to a facility in Ohio. Are you able to answer those questions I asked? I would add the question 'Was this also happening under Obama?'
Under Obama, no.
The rest of the questions: there is no justification for splitting up the families. It is purely done to inflict suffering on those seeking asylum to discourage other asylum seekers and to discourage the parents from fighting their deportation. That is why Sessions and Kelly pushed plan and also changed the rules for asylum so gang violence no longer qualified. And no one will stop them. This is the current state of our immigration system.
The things you are betting are incorrect. The children are being detained in facilities that are often far from their parents and with little direct contact.
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Trump leaving the human rights council will result in a lot of fruitless liberal handwringing - the focus on human rights since the 90s has been a fruitless liberal project after all - but at the end of the day it really changes nothing.
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EPT
