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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:16 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:10 Tachion wrote:
For all the recent fears in the thread with Bolton and Iran, I'm curious how bad a war with them would be.
I know jack about current military prowess, only that Iran and Iraq used to be relatively close in strength judging by the Iran-Iraq war stalemate.
Then desert storm and the Iraq war both had relatively minor casualties of coalition forces. Iran has had quite a bit of time to build up since 1990, so how much worse would it be than the Iraq operations decades prior? We are still in Afghanistan. From a military standpoint that country is a joke, but we cannot seem to get the job done there. The US lacks the political will to spend the money and effort required to win any war. We would need to raise taxes and get a lot more troops. And we lack the congressional leadership to not completely fuck it up. We completely fucked up Iraq. There is no way we don’t fuck up Iran or NK. We are not simply not prepared. That's the luxury of Bolton. He changes the win condition. Simply destroying a country and buying a friendly dictator with a secret stash of cash for resources he exploits from his nation is chalked up as a win instead of systematically destroying any semblance of righteousness the US may have hidden away. I think it's important to stress how self-centered Bolton's FP is. He makes Trump look like a globalist champion of the UN when it comes to looking at FP through a remarkably ignorant and US-centric lens. He thinks everything can be solved with US military forces and that the entire world should essentially thank us for their existence. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Are Iran and Russia allies or foes (with each other)? In a lot of ways yes. Russia would get involved with any invasion in Iran in some way. On Bolton, he is one of the people that convinced congress and Bush that the US could hold Iraq with just over 250K troops. We used 350K to occupy Japan, a country we nuked twice, surrender unconditionally and laid down arms. And it’s a god damn island. Iraq did none of those things and was bordered by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both nations that have a number of citizens that would love to kill Americans. Just think about the basis logistics of what I just described and you will get a pretty good grasp on how stupid John Bolton is on these issues. Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome. As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it.
The US 'won' the Cold War in part because Russia got bogged down in the Russia-Afghan war. The more middle east conflicts Russia can draw us into, the better (from Putin's perspective).
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On March 24 2018 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 01:21 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:16 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:10 Tachion wrote:
For all the recent fears in the thread with Bolton and Iran, I'm curious how bad a war with them would be.
I know jack about current military prowess, only that Iran and Iraq used to be relatively close in strength judging by the Iran-Iraq war stalemate.
Then desert storm and the Iraq war both had relatively minor casualties of coalition forces. Iran has had quite a bit of time to build up since 1990, so how much worse would it be than the Iraq operations decades prior? We are still in Afghanistan. From a military standpoint that country is a joke, but we cannot seem to get the job done there. The US lacks the political will to spend the money and effort required to win any war. We would need to raise taxes and get a lot more troops. And we lack the congressional leadership to not completely fuck it up. We completely fucked up Iraq. There is no way we don’t fuck up Iran or NK. We are not simply not prepared. That's the luxury of Bolton. He changes the win condition. Simply destroying a country and buying a friendly dictator with a secret stash of cash for resources he exploits from his nation is chalked up as a win instead of systematically destroying any semblance of righteousness the US may have hidden away. I think it's important to stress how self-centered Bolton's FP is. He makes Trump look like a globalist champion of the UN when it comes to looking at FP through a remarkably ignorant and US-centric lens. He thinks everything can be solved with US military forces and that the entire world should essentially thank us for their existence. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Are Iran and Russia allies or foes (with each other)? In a lot of ways yes. Russia would get involved with any invasion in Iran in some way. On Bolton, he is one of the people that convinced congress and Bush that the US could hold Iraq with just over 250K troops. We used 350K to occupy Japan, a country we nuked twice, surrender unconditionally and laid down arms. And it’s a god damn island. Iraq did none of those things and was bordered by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both nations that have a number of citizens that would love to kill Americans. Just think about the basis logistics of what I just described and you will get a pretty good grasp on how stupid John Bolton is on these issues. Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome. As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it. So you think it is Putin's desire for us to be engaged in conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and Iran in the future? None of those places are Ukraine, so sure. He just wants to keep us from opposing him directly the next time he decides a peace keeping mission into some old Soviet Bloc nation is necessary. So then you are against US imposed regime change in Syria, supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons to use in Yemen, and military action against Iran proper?
I really feel like you are leading the witness here. You asked me to speculate on Putin's intent and I did.
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On March 24 2018 01:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:21 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:16 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:10 Tachion wrote:
For all the recent fears in the thread with Bolton and Iran, I'm curious how bad a war with them would be.
I know jack about current military prowess, only that Iran and Iraq used to be relatively close in strength judging by the Iran-Iraq war stalemate.
Then desert storm and the Iraq war both had relatively minor casualties of coalition forces. Iran has had quite a bit of time to build up since 1990, so how much worse would it be than the Iraq operations decades prior? We are still in Afghanistan. From a military standpoint that country is a joke, but we cannot seem to get the job done there. The US lacks the political will to spend the money and effort required to win any war. We would need to raise taxes and get a lot more troops. And we lack the congressional leadership to not completely fuck it up. We completely fucked up Iraq. There is no way we don’t fuck up Iran or NK. We are not simply not prepared. That's the luxury of Bolton. He changes the win condition. Simply destroying a country and buying a friendly dictator with a secret stash of cash for resources he exploits from his nation is chalked up as a win instead of systematically destroying any semblance of righteousness the US may have hidden away. I think it's important to stress how self-centered Bolton's FP is. He makes Trump look like a globalist champion of the UN when it comes to looking at FP through a remarkably ignorant and US-centric lens. He thinks everything can be solved with US military forces and that the entire world should essentially thank us for their existence. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Are Iran and Russia allies or foes (with each other)? In a lot of ways yes. Russia would get involved with any invasion in Iran in some way. On Bolton, he is one of the people that convinced congress and Bush that the US could hold Iraq with just over 250K troops. We used 350K to occupy Japan, a country we nuked twice, surrender unconditionally and laid down arms. And it’s a god damn island. Iraq did none of those things and was bordered by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both nations that have a number of citizens that would love to kill Americans. Just think about the basis logistics of what I just described and you will get a pretty good grasp on how stupid John Bolton is on these issues. Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome. As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it. So you think it is Putin's desire for us to be engaged in conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and Iran in the future? None of those places are Ukraine, so sure. He just wants to keep us from opposing him directly the next time he decides a peace keeping mission into some old Soviet Bloc nation is necessary. So then you are against US imposed regime change in Syria, supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons to use in Yemen, and military action against Iran proper? I really feel like you are leading the witness here. You asked me to speculate on Putin's intent and I did.
I'm trying to understand your (the wider Trump is Russia's puppet) perspective and I think asking questions is the best way for me to do that.
I have another more concrete question I'd like answered in the same vein but it's been ignored thus far so I thought I'd approach it from a different angle. It appears that this inquiry has come to a road block as well.
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On March 24 2018 01:46 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 01:42 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:21 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:16 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
We are still in Afghanistan. From a military standpoint that country is a joke, but we cannot seem to get the job done there. The US lacks the political will to spend the money and effort required to win any war. We would need to raise taxes and get a lot more troops. And we lack the congressional leadership to not completely fuck it up. We completely fucked up Iraq. There is no way we don’t fuck up Iran or NK. We are not simply not prepared. That's the luxury of Bolton. He changes the win condition. Simply destroying a country and buying a friendly dictator with a secret stash of cash for resources he exploits from his nation is chalked up as a win instead of systematically destroying any semblance of righteousness the US may have hidden away. I think it's important to stress how self-centered Bolton's FP is. He makes Trump look like a globalist champion of the UN when it comes to looking at FP through a remarkably ignorant and US-centric lens. He thinks everything can be solved with US military forces and that the entire world should essentially thank us for their existence. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Are Iran and Russia allies or foes (with each other)? In a lot of ways yes. Russia would get involved with any invasion in Iran in some way. On Bolton, he is one of the people that convinced congress and Bush that the US could hold Iraq with just over 250K troops. We used 350K to occupy Japan, a country we nuked twice, surrender unconditionally and laid down arms. And it’s a god damn island. Iraq did none of those things and was bordered by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both nations that have a number of citizens that would love to kill Americans. Just think about the basis logistics of what I just described and you will get a pretty good grasp on how stupid John Bolton is on these issues. Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome. As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it. So you think it is Putin's desire for us to be engaged in conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and Iran in the future? None of those places are Ukraine, so sure. He just wants to keep us from opposing him directly the next time he decides a peace keeping mission into some old Soviet Bloc nation is necessary. So then you are against US imposed regime change in Syria, supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons to use in Yemen, and military action against Iran proper? I really feel like you are leading the witness here. You asked me to speculate on Putin's intent and I did. I'm trying to understand your (the wider Trump is Russia's puppet) perspective and I think asking questions is the best way for me to do that. I have another more concrete question I'd like answered in the same vein but it's been ignored thus far so I thought I'd approach it from a different angle. It appears that this inquiry has come to a road block as well.
Well I don't believe Trump is a Russian puppet, so you will need to ask someone else. I've been very clear on that subject.
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how the blazing fuck could any rational human being look at a guy that said "The Iraq War was awesome, also let's bomb the shit out of North Korea and Iran" be appointed National Security Advisor, and not only be able to sleep at night, but think it sounds like a great idea?
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On March 24 2018 01:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 01:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:42 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:21 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:34 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
That's the luxury of Bolton. He changes the win condition. Simply destroying a country and buying a friendly dictator with a secret stash of cash for resources he exploits from his nation is chalked up as a win instead of systematically destroying any semblance of righteousness the US may have hidden away.
I think it's important to stress how self-centered Bolton's FP is. He makes Trump look like a globalist champion of the UN when it comes to looking at FP through a remarkably ignorant and US-centric lens. He thinks everything can be solved with US military forces and that the entire world should essentially thank us for their existence.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Are Iran and Russia allies or foes (with each other)? In a lot of ways yes. Russia would get involved with any invasion in Iran in some way. On Bolton, he is one of the people that convinced congress and Bush that the US could hold Iraq with just over 250K troops. We used 350K to occupy Japan, a country we nuked twice, surrender unconditionally and laid down arms. And it’s a god damn island. Iraq did none of those things and was bordered by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both nations that have a number of citizens that would love to kill Americans. Just think about the basis logistics of what I just described and you will get a pretty good grasp on how stupid John Bolton is on these issues. Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome. As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it. So you think it is Putin's desire for us to be engaged in conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and Iran in the future? None of those places are Ukraine, so sure. He just wants to keep us from opposing him directly the next time he decides a peace keeping mission into some old Soviet Bloc nation is necessary. So then you are against US imposed regime change in Syria, supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons to use in Yemen, and military action against Iran proper? I really feel like you are leading the witness here. You asked me to speculate on Putin's intent and I did. I'm trying to understand your (the wider Trump is Russia's puppet) perspective and I think asking questions is the best way for me to do that. I have another more concrete question I'd like answered in the same vein but it's been ignored thus far so I thought I'd approach it from a different angle. It appears that this inquiry has come to a road block as well. Well I don't believe Trump is a Russian puppet, so you will need to ask someone else. I've been very clear on that subject.
Fair enough, I must have mixed you up with the liberals who do.
What does that mean as far as your perception on the whole collusion investigation? That they allied as peers, that Trump was duped, that it was a mutually exploitative relationship, some other nature?____________________________________________________________________________________________
Towards the liberals that do think Trump is a Russian puppet or some variation:
I thought the ongoing narrative was that Trump colluded with Russia in a massive online propaganda campaign with a shifting interest from Russia ranging from Trump being their puppet to Trump being a stooge, to hoping Trump would show them favor. That many of Trump's nominees were placed to please Putin and that his lack of criticism and fawning over Putin is evidence that Putin has leverage over Trump or that Trump inexplicably wants to keep Putin happy.
Am I getting something wrong in that?
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On March 24 2018 02:15 LightSpectra wrote:
how the blazing fuck could any rational human being look at a guy that said "The Iraq War was awesome, also let's bomb the shit out of North Korea and Iran" be appointed National Security Advisor, and not only be able to sleep at night, but think it sounds like a great idea?
simple, they couldn't.
but the people involved aren't rational. (and of course most people in general aren't rational).
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Looks like Trump is about to shit all over the spending bill. He just referred to it as a "ridiculous situation."
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On March 24 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:
Looks like Trump is about to shit all over the spending bill. He just referred to it as a "ridiculous situation."
What do you think the chances are that he shits all over it, signs it, then bitches about it more
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On March 24 2018 02:29 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:
Looks like Trump is about to shit all over the spending bill. He just referred to it as a "ridiculous situation." What do you think the chances are that he shits all over it, signs it, then bitches about it more
That's exactly what is happening lol, good call.
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The investigations are really simple. The Trump camp is made up of a bunch of clowns like Flynn and Manafort who have been on the bleeding edge of legal for years as foreign lobbyist. Trump doesn't listen to anyone and doesn't really respect that laws exist for a reason, so he is a prime target for Russian intelligence services make offers to. If you read about how all intelligence services operate in all countries, they are always looking for someone to leak them info or work with. In the case of Trump's team, which is filled with political novices and a bunch of half wits, they found people like Trump Jr. who was happy to take a meeting to receive dirt on Clinton. If he had(or did) received dirt on Clinton, that shit is illegal and Russia knows it. So now they have dirt on the president's son. If Trump had a professional staff of political operatives, that meeting never would have happened. Now take that level of political inexperience and compound it with folks like Kushner, who's family is super in debt and Trump's own organization and you have the investigation.
Also add in the unlimited money flowing into elections from all directions that is impossible to keep track of with a congress that is more interested in protecting billionaire's ability to control elections and it is easy for them to get their hooks into groups like the NRA. They are exploiting our flawed system of running elections that a professional sports league.
On March 24 2018 02:30 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 02:29 IyMoon wrote:On March 24 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:
Looks like Trump is about to shit all over the spending bill. He just referred to it as a "ridiculous situation." What do you think the chances are that he shits all over it, signs it, then bitches about it more That's exactly what is happening lol, good call.
Fitting for the man who tried to trade mark "You're fire" who does not fire people in person.
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If anyone on the left wants some fun, /T_D is going crazy right now.
Although I agree with them because this style of gov funding is really trash
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Yeah, it looks like Trump is going sign the bill on the basis of the national defense spending stuff that's in there but otherwise crap all over the bill.
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On March 24 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:
Yeah, it looks like Trump is going sign the bill on the basis of the national defense spending stuff that's in there but otherwise crap all over the bill.
As a conservative, how do you feel? Does this tarnish Trump for you? I ask after reading T_D and the responses there
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Trump talking about suing drug companies at the federal level...
While my knee jerk is to like the idea, any lawyers here able to tell me if the fed can actually do that? What laws were broken by these companies
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On March 24 2018 02:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 01:48 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:42 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:21 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
In a lot of ways yes. Russia would get involved with any invasion in Iran in some way.
On Bolton, he is one of the people that convinced congress and Bush that the US could hold Iraq with just over 250K troops. We used 350K to occupy Japan, a country we nuked twice, surrender unconditionally and laid down arms. And it’s a god damn island. Iraq did none of those things and was bordered by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both nations that have a number of citizens that would love to kill Americans. Just think about the basis logistics of what I just described and you will get a pretty good grasp on how stupid John Bolton is on these issues.
Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome. As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it. So you think it is Putin's desire for us to be engaged in conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and Iran in the future? None of those places are Ukraine, so sure. He just wants to keep us from opposing him directly the next time he decides a peace keeping mission into some old Soviet Bloc nation is necessary. So then you are against US imposed regime change in Syria, supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons to use in Yemen, and military action against Iran proper? I really feel like you are leading the witness here. You asked me to speculate on Putin's intent and I did. I'm trying to understand your (the wider Trump is Russia's puppet) perspective and I think asking questions is the best way for me to do that. I have another more concrete question I'd like answered in the same vein but it's been ignored thus far so I thought I'd approach it from a different angle. It appears that this inquiry has come to a road block as well. Well I don't believe Trump is a Russian puppet, so you will need to ask someone else. I've been very clear on that subject. Fair enough, I must have mixed you up with the liberals who do. What does that mean as far as your perception on the whole collusion investigation? That they allied as peers, that Trump was duped, that it was a mutually exploitative relationship, some other nature?____________________________________________________________________________________________ Towards the liberals that do think Trump is a Russian puppet or some variation: I thought the ongoing narrative was that Trump colluded with Russia in a massive online propaganda campaign with a shifting interest from Russia ranging from Trump being their puppet to Trump being a stooge, to hoping Trump would show them favor. That many of Trump's nominees were placed to please Putin and that his lack of criticism and fawning over Putin is evidence that Putin has leverage over Trump or that Trump inexplicably wants to keep Putin happy. Am I getting something wrong in that?
I don't think Trump himself is a Russian puppet. I think he's too much of a dumbass to follow any kind of script. But, he is an incredible narcissist who gives in easily to flattery, which many foreign leaders have exploited.
I think there are Russian puppets within his team, and Trump is too much of an idiot to vet anyone. And a lot of those people are speaking directly in Trump's ear.
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On March 24 2018 02:42 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:
Yeah, it looks like Trump is going sign the bill on the basis of the national defense spending stuff that's in there but otherwise crap all over the bill. As a conservative, how do you feel? Does this tarnish Trump for you? I ask after reading T_D and the responses there
No, it doesn't really tarnish Trump for me. I laugh whenever I see these posts from people asking rhetorically and sarcastically why Trump hasn't drained the swamp yet. No honest person with half a brain expected Trump to be able to singlehandedly reverse the trajectory of the behemoth that is the US federal government during his first year. It takes time. But he's slowly and steadily making changes. Like it or not, he is going to be a president of consequence. With regards to the spending bill specifically, fixing Washington's wanton, bipartisan spending problems may very well be Trump's toughest task. It's a cultural problem at the legislature that the president doesn't really have the power to directly influence, much less fix.
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On March 24 2018 02:39 IyMoon wrote:
If anyone on the left wants some fun, /T_D is going crazy right now.
It's amazing the mindbending that goes on there...
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 24 2018 02:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 02:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:48 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:42 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 01:21 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 01:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 24 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2018 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Oh I know how stupid he is, that's kinda the point. He still thinks he's right about Iraq. His goals are ignorant and he'll just move them to fit the outcome.
As to Iran and Russia, shouldn't Iran be off the list of potential conflicts if they are allied with his puppet masters? I don’t think so. I think Putin would love the US to get bogged down in another conflict in the Middle East. Or anyplace really. Wait until we are deep in there and stoke the instability so we can’t leave. A war weary America is an America that has no political will to support NATO. Or that is how I believe Putin views it. So you think it is Putin's desire for us to be engaged in conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and Iran in the future? None of those places are Ukraine, so sure. He just wants to keep us from opposing him directly the next time he decides a peace keeping mission into some old Soviet Bloc nation is necessary. So then you are against US imposed regime change in Syria, supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons to use in Yemen, and military action against Iran proper? I really feel like you are leading the witness here. You asked me to speculate on Putin's intent and I did. I'm trying to understand your (the wider Trump is Russia's puppet) perspective and I think asking questions is the best way for me to do that. I have another more concrete question I'd like answered in the same vein but it's been ignored thus far so I thought I'd approach it from a different angle. It appears that this inquiry has come to a road block as well. Well I don't believe Trump is a Russian puppet, so you will need to ask someone else. I've been very clear on that subject. Fair enough, I must have mixed you up with the liberals who do. What does that mean as far as your perception on the whole collusion investigation? That they allied as peers, that Trump was duped, that it was a mutually exploitative relationship, some other nature?____________________________________________________________________________________________ Towards the liberals that do think Trump is a Russian puppet or some variation: I thought the ongoing narrative was that Trump colluded with Russia in a massive online propaganda campaign with a shifting interest from Russia ranging from Trump being their puppet to Trump being a stooge, to hoping Trump would show them favor. That many of Trump's nominees were placed to please Putin and that his lack of criticism and fawning over Putin is evidence that Putin has leverage over Trump or that Trump inexplicably wants to keep Putin happy. Am I getting something wrong in that? I don't think Trump himself is a Russian puppet. I think he's too much of a dumbass to follow any kind of script. But, he is an incredible narcissist who gives in easily to flattery, which many foreign leaders have exploited. I think there are Russian puppets within his team, and Trump is too much of an idiot to vet anyone. And a lot of those people are speaking directly in Trump's ear.
I'd note p6's take seems different than it was 6 months ago and very different than what we see daily in liberal media outlets, but more along the lines of something I can agree with.
Who do you think are the Russian puppets within his team?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wN8pJ4b.jpg)
