Per John Roberts at Fox News (his earlier tweets expound on the cost and savings Trump'll be getting - apparently 3 mil instead of 7.9)
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2837
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Per John Roberts at Fox News (his earlier tweets expound on the cost and savings Trump'll be getting - apparently 3 mil instead of 7.9) | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
I imagine the RNC is only willing to fund so much non-sense if there is no hope for success. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On November 19 2020 02:33 NewSunshine wrote: Now that his momentum is finally about to well and truly run dry, keep an eye out for R's claiming to have never really supported him. The Republican's methodology has 100% consisted of rallying behind whoever gains momentum, turning their moral compass on a dime, and then claiming to have never known or supported them when they finally disappear. They're going to hope people don't remember they rallied behind an open Fascist and White Supremacist. I don't think this will happen. If anything, this election (and 2016) demonstrates that he actually has a stronger base amongst Republicans than any other candidate that they can put forward. Hard for Republicans to turn against him if he's their most likely candidate in 2024. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14110 Posts
It's clear hes trying to start fires that'll make it hard politically for a coward like Biden to put out. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
He's also fucking over everything he can during the lame duck period since breaking things is massively easier than fixing them. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 19 2020 03:25 Sermokala wrote: I find it hard to argue that without the pandemic that he wouldn't have won pretty easily. It's clear that until there was an actual crisis that people were pretty okay with sticking with him. It's clear hes trying to start fires that'll make it hard politically for a coward like Biden to put out. Agreed, Trump would have dominated the election in the absence of covid. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2709 Posts
On November 19 2020 02:33 NewSunshine wrote: Now that his momentum is finally about to well and truly run dry, keep an eye out for R's claiming to have never really supported him. The Republican's methodology has 100% consisted of rallying behind whoever gains momentum, turning their moral compass on a dime, and then claiming to have never known or supported them when they finally disappear. They're going to hope people don't remember they rallied behind an open Fascist and White Supremacist. I think this is true in a world where the US population at large recognizes him as a fascist and white supremacist, and recognizes these as undesirable things. I don't think we live in that world, and this election being closer than the landslide some of us expected is pretty good evidence that we're not super close to that world, either. Something compels people to vote for Trump, and I don't actually think it's knowing support of fascism or white supremacy that accounts for the majority of it. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On November 19 2020 00:29 Salazarz wrote: My point is, it makes little sense (to me, at least) trying to point out whatever 'problems' with the laws and regulations that allow Trump to get away with doing this or that, when someone like him probably shouldn't have been a president in the first place, and certainly shouldn't have the confidence or support of a significant percent of the country's population and what effectively is (at least for the time being) the majority of the government apparatus. In a situation like this, it's not really about any specific rules or lack of thereof in the US governance, it's about the fact that the US government as a structure is entirely unfit to fulfill the role it is supposed to be fulfilling and no amount of tinkering with individual rules would make a genuine difference. The tiger analogy above is very apt -- the problem isn't that there aren't enough rules to control Trump, it's that it is more important for GoP and the Republicans to 'win' than it is to run their country in a reasonable fashion. No law can fix that. Laws to stop rampant bribery and gerrymandering might help with officials treating governance like a game. Even if our populace elects a Trump, there's no reason why the rest of the government should not check and oppose him in his constant outrages. To me the biggest surprise and tragedy of Trump's presidency is how eagerly the whole GOP fell in line to serve his every whim and defend him no matter what. There must be ways to at least disincentivize this. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 19 2020 03:51 Fleetfeet wrote: I think this is true in a world where the US population at large recognizes him as a fascist and white supremacist, and recognizes these as undesirable things. I don't think we live in that world, and this election being closer than the landslide some of us expected is pretty good evidence that we're not super close to that world, either. Something compels people to vote for Trump, and I don't actually think it's knowing support of fascism or white supremacy that accounts for the majority of it. The guy that improves past Republican margins among minorities and women needs better analysis than blaming racist blacks & Latinos and misogynist women for the victory. According to exit polling, Trump’s “open fascist and white supremacist” did better with women, blacks, and Latinos, and worse only among white men, when comparing with 2016. It appears deductive from what should have happened based on personal analysis, rather than deductive from what actually happened from the voting electorate. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
Remember how arrogant Trump supporters were acting in 2016? It is going to be difficult, but it is time to be better and treat the 72 million losers with respect. The only way out of this mess is to focus on what brings US citizens together. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On November 19 2020 04:14 Danglars wrote: The guy that improves past Republican margins among minorities and women needs better analysis than blaming racist blacks & Latinos and misogynist women for the victory. According to exit polling, Trump’s “open fascist and white supremacist” did better with women, blacks, and Latinos, and worse only among white men, when comparing with 2016. It appears deductive from what should have happened based on personal analysis, rather than deductive from what actually happened from the voting electorate. And who exactly did that? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/526436-democrats-vent-to-schumer-over-senate-majority-failure#.X7VzncooLnA.twitter There was a discussion about the “DSCC endorsing candidates in primaries and not always getting it right and suppressing a legitimate battle that might have strengthened our hand in some way,” said the Democratic senator. “There’s some feeling the DSCC should not be picking candidates before the primary,” a third Democratic senator said of the call with Schumer, referring to Kentucky and Texas. Its nice to hear that they're acknowledging that picking their crappy corporate candidates beforehand isnt necessarily a winning strategy and that when theyre facing strong competittion from candidates with significantly less institutional power they ought to consider backing them Progressives argued that Republicans have moved further and further to the right and that Democrats have followed them in the rightward drift of American political debate that “we’re so disconnected from working Americans,” said the lawmaker. Warren said she has urged colleagues to focus on issues that make a difference in people’s lives, such as relieving student debt obligations. “I think we ought to be talking about the things that are very popular all across this country. Things like canceling student loan debt and supporting universal child care and not turning our country over to a bunch of lobbyists and corporate insiders,” she said Tuesday afternoon. I hope that the Democrats take this all to heart and actually commit to winning elections, appealing to working class Americans, and actually trying to improve this country. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 19 2020 02:37 3 Lions wrote: I don't think this will happen. If anything, this election (and 2016) demonstrates that he actually has a stronger base amongst Republicans than any other candidate that they can put forward. Hard for Republicans to turn against him if he's their most likely candidate in 2024. I don't think I quite agree with this take yet, just because of the sheer amount of places that flipped from Trump in 2016 to Biden in 2020. The amount of split ticket voting against Trump but for Republican House and Senate candidates was pretty huge (so much so that it's one of the things Trump incorrectly claims is evidence of voter fraud), as was the voting for state-level positions. To me that's a sign the party might not be quite so enthused with him as you would expect; even if his base is more motivated, the never-Trumpers seem to also have been energized. We will see in 2024 though. I still am not sure he will run, if only because I don't think that as an overgrown baby he has the mental strength to do any of this again. It's much easier to just play kingmaker and continue grifting and tweeting on the side. On November 19 2020 04:58 Danglars wrote: Google the exit polls. Trump increased his vote share from 2016 among basically everyone except white me. In theory, four years of overt white supremacy should have lost support among minorities and gained among white men. If that’s even an election aspect worth talking about/adjudicating. This is probably the worst time in history to use exit polling for pretty much anything-even the ones correcting for COVID problems are basically just doing guesswork. It would be a miracle if exit polls didn't show him expanding his margins in most groups when he specifically told all his supporters not to vote by mail. Some of the registration stuff points in this direction, but even that is tough to parse given the fact registration is far from a perfect method for predicting voting behavior. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On November 19 2020 04:58 Danglars wrote: Google the exit polls. Trump increased his vote share from 2016 among basically everyone except white me. In theory, four years of overt white supremacy should have lost support among minorities and gained among white men. If that’s even an election aspect worth talking about/adjudicating. I mean in this thread. Sorry for not being clear about that. Because I only recall nevuk pointing out that Trump did better in these demographics. And Biden worse than Hillary. Which makes you arguing against something nobody here communicated in any form I remember. I think the thing most akin to blaming was that Biden or the DEMS being painted as in the vincinity of communist / socialist rendered them impossible to vote for by refugees from socialist dictatorships. | ||
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KwarK
United States43966 Posts
On November 19 2020 04:31 Slydie wrote: Calling names like "racist", "white supremacist" and "racist" is only going to fire up Trump's, and won't solve any problems. Remember how arrogant Trump supporters were acting in 2016? It is going to be difficult, but it is time to be better and treat the 72 million losers with respect. The only way out of this mess is to focus on what brings US citizens together. I’ve never understood the argument that we shouldn’t call racists racist in case it offends racists. Why should we make public discourse a safe space for racists and their fragile feelings? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 19 2020 05:04 TheTenthDoc wrote: I don't think I quite agree with this take yet, just because of the sheer amount of places that flipped from Trump in 2016 to Biden in 2020. The amount of split ticket voting against Trump but for Republican House and Senate candidates was pretty huge (so much so that it's one of the things Trump incorrectly claims is evidence of voter fraud), as was the voting for state-level positions. To me that's a sign the party might not be quite so enthused with him as you would expect; even if his base is more motivated, the never-Trumpers seem to also have been energized. We will see in 2024 though. I still am not sure he will run, if only because I don't think that as an overgrown baby he has the mental strength to do any of this again. It's much easier to just play kingmaker and continue grifting and tweeting on the side. This is probably the worst time in history to use exit polling for pretty much anything-even the ones correcting for COVID problems are basically just doing guesswork. It would be a miracle if exit polls didn't show him expanding his margins in most groups when he specifically told all his supporters not to vote by mail. Some of the registration stuff points in this direction, but even that is tough to parse given the fact registration is far from a perfect method for predicting voting behavior. It matches county-level data where Trump did marginally better in cities and marginally worse in suburbs. These have been observed across multiple states. I might post a few after work. | ||
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