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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8074 Posts
On November 14 2020 14:30 Zambrah wrote: Where does GH say hes going to force his political views on anyone? I know contradictions don't bother anyone here but to claim to be a marxist-leninist and to not want to force your political opinions on anyone is kind of lol. Now, GH never said the latter, so I give him the benefit of the doubt consistency-wise. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23930 Posts
On November 14 2020 19:02 Biff The Understudy wrote: I know contradictions don't bother anyone here but to claim to be a marxist-leninist and to not want to force your political opinions on anyone is kind of lol. I know contradictions don't bother anyone here but to claim to be a capitalist and to not want to force your political opinions on anyone is kind of lol. Also the US is sort of globally famous for forcing people to adhere to their politics. Including the genocidal formation. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28792 Posts
On November 14 2020 12:44 Danglars wrote: Y'all going way deep into cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Let him make his libertarian point about taxation without dragging all the social context to drag it down. Unless you really want to argue that lower rates of taxation and his points necessarily bring about the wife beating and phrenology. While I don't see how the phrenology is related, wife-beating actually is. (Women got their freedom (to get divorced and leave their husbands if they are shitty) from getting jobs/money of their own, many jobs (especially for women) are government jobs = funded through taxes. *the above is tongue in cheek. But as a Norwegian, American women as a whole still don't seem fully liberated to me. (Regionally and in certain age groups, sure.) From my perspective, them making their own money is essential to their freedom. And using income taxes to fund government jobs, increasing the labor demand so more women are employed (not that there's anything intrinsically linking women to government jobs - but in practice, there's a relation), is a great way to go about female emancipation. Hell, even without factoring in jobs, any type of benefit (that have to be paid for by taxes) given to an individual rather than a family unit increases freedom (especially freedom from being abused by a husband). | ||
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
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Slydie
1935 Posts
And using income taxes to fund government jobs, increasing the labor demand so more women are employed (not that there's anything intrinsically linking women to government jobs - but in practice, there's a relation), is a great way to go about female emancipation. I think it should be mentioned that a lot of those jobs include tasks mostly women were previously expected to do for free: taking care of small children, elderly, the sick etc, and if the government takes care of that, it creates more freedom. I believe many jobs private which were about taking care of richer people's houses and families were also lost, but those are making a comeback. Having someone come clean your house for you is less of a tabu now than 30 years ago. Left wing: leave the responsibility for everything to the government so we can do whatever we want. Right wing: leave the government out of our business so we can do whatever we want. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 14 2020 22:46 Sermokala wrote: Going on an "fuck the establishment" bend is sooooo 70's and is exactly how we got thatcher, nixon, and Reagon. Abandoning your relevance in the current political system doesn't empower you or help change the system in any way it just makes the things you don't like even worse. Anti-elite sentiment is a winning strategy and democrats are being fools by letting Republicans have the whole market. Democrats need to just keep bashing billionaires, pharma and other big industries. "Imagine having 50 boats, each being worth around $50,000. Now imagine saying 'it is my right to have 50 more and you should let me do that' while millions of children in America aren't sufficiently fed and rely on school lunches. That is fucked. We should prevent the billionaire from buying his additional 50 boats and use that tax money to improve food availability" THAT is a winning message. They need to point out what it really means to be a billionaire. 20 fucking houses, 100 boats, still not even spending the first of their many billions. Even people with 100+M are living completely outrageous lives that no one has the right to have while kids are starving. Democrats need to bring attention to what life as a billionaire is actually like. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
I don't think Democrat voters are as likely as Republican voters to just accept that things are better because theyre told, they'd likely need to actually notice the change that was being sold to believe it was happening. Democrats likely feel safer playing into social issues and keeping their donor base happy to keep that money flowing in. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 14 2020 20:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: While I don't see how the phrenology is related, wife-beating actually is. (Women got their freedom (to get divorced and leave their husbands if they are shitty) from getting jobs/money of their own, many jobs (especially for women) are government jobs = funded through taxes. *the above is tongue in cheek. But as a Norwegian, American women as a whole still don't seem fully liberated to me. (Regionally and in certain age groups, sure.) From my perspective, them making their own money is essential to their freedom. And using income taxes to fund government jobs, increasing the labor demand so more women are employed (not that there's anything intrinsically linking women to government jobs - but in practice, there's a relation), is a great way to go about female emancipation. Hell, even without factoring in jobs, any type of benefit (that have to be paid for by taxes) given to an individual rather than a family unit increases freedom (especially freedom from being abused by a husband). Much of the improvements in science and technology are a direct result of increased government funding for education and investment in technologies. Increased levels of education can be credited with increased skepticism concerning pseudo science like phrenology. The electric grid had massive state funding and is what replaced the lamps at the time (which I think were actually gas, not whale oil, but my main point was they were far less common and expensive. I inherited at least one from the time that ran on oil, so I assumed they were common...). Unless we want to go MMT (which requires moving to a fiat currency, something that we didn't have for a few more years), I don't think the US government could afford to fund the development of the modern electric system without having had an income tax (same for roads and many other items). Same goes for funding scholarships and educational infrastructure. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8074 Posts
On November 14 2020 19:17 GreenHorizons wrote: I know contradictions don't bother anyone here but to claim to be a capitalist and to not want to force your political opinions on anyone is kind of lol. Also the US is sort of globally famous for forcing people to adhere to their politics. Including the genocidal formation. The difference being of course that there is an inherent contradiction between communism and democracy - and by extension free speech, but I don't think you are aware of that. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On November 15 2020 03:38 Biff The Understudy wrote: The difference being of course that there is an inherent contradiction between communism and democracy - and by extension free speech, but I don't think you are aware of that. Most forms of communism are supposed to result in a state-less society, so I suppose you could say that there's a contradiction between a communist society and a democratic society in a sense. Why are you lumping free speech together with democracy, though? A democratic government isn't necessary for free speech, and free speech isn't necessarily present in a democratic state. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On November 15 2020 03:38 Biff The Understudy wrote: The difference being of course that there is an inherent contradiction between communism and democracy - and by extension free speech, but I don't think you are aware of that. That scraping sound was you dragging the goalposts after field goaling yourself. Unless you want to make an intrinsic connection between Capitalism and democracy - which is at best false - there's no counter to his point that Capitalism inherently forces its position on anyone who is not Capitalist. By definition Capitalism exists to grow. Any market that is not open to exploitation is intolerable to a Capitalist mindset. In pursuit of these markets Capitalists have toppled Democratically elected governments, permitted genocides (or started them) and in general been guilty of appalling abuses of all types and varieties. If anything the only difference is Capitalism generally drives Capitalists to inflict those abuses on people outside the system whereas Communism in general inflicts them on people within it. The absolute best way out from this corner you've backed yourself into is 'well Communism was worse' which is hardly a great argument in Capitalism's favour and as mentioned, largely a matter of perspective/position anyway. Also of mild interest, several Capitalist states are lower on the Freedom Index than any of the world's existing communist states. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On November 15 2020 13:10 Zambrah wrote: I hear fights are breaking out around DC, Ive also heard the Proud Boys stabbed three people, unfortunately I don't have much for sources, mostly just local twitter stuff, but it makes sense given the MAGA Million March shit that was going on in DC today. Definitely fights breaking out, I got alerted by Apple News about it. So far around four people have been arrested for weapons charges (guns). | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Sucks that it sparks violence, but right wing extremists a la the Proud Boys are going to be violent one way or another. User was warned for this post | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
"ANTIFA SCUM ran for the hills today when they tried attacking the people at the Trump Rally, because those people aggressively fought back. Antifa waited until tonight, when 99% were gone, to attack innocent #MAGA People. DC Police, get going — do your job and don’t hold back!!!" https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327828007311073280?s=20 | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Since there is no evidence whatsoever for their stories of 'stolen election' and they lost all cases , they now reverted to have hosts ask viewers to use their ''gut feeling' and 'instincts' because 'it just doesn't feel right'. 'Trump was doing so great, Biden got almost nobody at his rallies, how could he win'. It's such insane propaganda. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + And on the proud boys, it's interesting how they didn't get any of the tear gas, pepper spray or random nonlethals shot at them. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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