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On June 06 2018 04:33 Plansix wrote:
I think folks are conflating Trump’s recent comments about pardoning himself(which he cannot do) with the pardon your referenced above. Though to be fair, I had to read your post three times because of your opening line. It does give the impression that you are saying the pardons of the people under investigation are good for Trump given the context of the thread.
Yes, I don't think Trump's recent pardons have anything to so with Meuller, although ones that do or would involve people like James Comey (the Stewart one?) prob make him just that much happier.
And I added a few words to my first sentence I hope it helps. Editing on a phone means things get deleted sometimes.
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On June 06 2018 04:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 04:33 Plansix wrote:
I think folks are conflating Trump’s recent comments about pardoning himself(which he cannot do) with the pardon your referenced above. Though to be fair, I had to read your post three times because of your opening line. It does give the impression that you are saying the pardons of the people under investigation are good for Trump given the context of the thread. Yes, I don't think Trump's recent pardons have anything to so with Meuller, although ones that do or would involve people like James Comey (the Stewart one?) prob make him just that much happier. And I added a few words to my first sentence I hope it helps. Editing on a phone means things get deleted sometimes.
Although I agree there is no direct line, I think the pardons are an inappropriate use of power and undermine the justice system. Even if some good comes from it. The pardon power shouldn’t be wielded as a blessing from the President to those are able to obtain access to him.
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On June 06 2018 04:15 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 02:49 zlefin wrote:On June 06 2018 02:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/manafort-attempted-to-tamper-with-potential-witnesses-u-s-special-counsel-idUSKCN1J1043WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, who has been indicted by U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, attempted to tamper with potential witnesses, Mueller said in a court filing on Monday.
Mueller, who is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, asked the judge overseeing the case in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to revoke or revise an order releasing Manafort ahead of his trial.
Manafort was released to home confinement after his arraignment in October.
Mueller has indicted Manafort in federal courts in Virginia and Washington, D.C., with an array of allegations from money-laundering and failing to register as a foreign agent, to bank and tax fraud. Manafort has pleaded not guilty.
FBI Special Agent Brock Domin, in a declaration filed with Mueller’s motion, said Manafort had attempted to call, text and send encrypted messages in February to two people from “The Hapsburg Group,” a firm he worked with to promote the interests of Ukraine.
The FBI has documents and statements from the two people, as well as telephone records and documents recovered through a search of Manafort’s iCloud account showing that Trump’s former campaign manager attempted communication while he was out on bail, according to Domin.
The communications were “in an effort to influence their testimony and to otherwise conceal evidence,” Domin wrote. “The investigation into this matter is ongoing.”
Manafort is the most senior member of Trump’s campaign to be indicted, though the charges do not relate to campaign activities.
Mueller urged Judge Amy Berman Jackson to “promptly” schedule a hearing on the whether to change Manafort’s conditions of release, which could result in Manafort going to jail.
The Washington trial is set to start on Sept. 17.
Where does this leave Manafort? Seems like this is a new charge that will be added to his case since this was after he was arrested or turned himself in. Apparently the two people Manafort tried to tamper with handed over everything to Mueller, including text messages. Do you think Trump may try to pardon Manafort here too at this point? I doubt trump would pardon manafort here. There's no reason to rush a pardon through preemptively; and trump has shown little inclination to risk himself for anyone else. A pardon on manafort here would expose Trump considerably. there are certainly things that make it seem unlikely but I could think of some reasons for him to do it despite it. First of all it's a move that shows that he doesn't give a fuck, makes him look "strong" (his kind of srong, hence the quotation marks). But even more importantly it sends a strong sign to anyone else involved with Mueller that Trump has their backs as long as they stay loyal to him. That is, even if they would end up in jail because of the Mueller investigation, they won't have to go to jail as long as they keep their mouth shut about him. And his base would totally accept that and cheer it on as Trump dismantling the witch hunt or something like that. Hard to say imo. Perhaps not now but I'm not so sure about later on.
I don't think it would send such a sign; as Trump has demonstrated far too many times already that he doesn't have anyone's back and regards them as expendable. If he covers Manafort, it would'nt be out of loyal/protection; it'd be because Manafort has serious dirt on him. or at least that's what I'd think many of the people being investigated would conclude.
while a good portion of trump's base would cheer it on; many of the other republicans who begrudgingly support him would go crazy over it, as would some of the republican politicians.
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On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook
It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it.
If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place.
Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump?
We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president?
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On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president?
We need some kinda MLK-Gandhi fusion.
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On June 06 2018 05:57 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president? We need some kinda MLK-Gandhi fusion.
I know this is a joke that is supposed to provide some form of peaceful path forward, but current America would be dumbstruck by how angry and defiant both of them were. They wouldn’t be able to deal with the full I have a Dream speech or King’s constant drum beat that white moderates were the problem with America. Compromise was not what they were fighting for.
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On June 06 2018 06:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 05:57 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president? We need some kinda MLK-Gandhi fusion. I know this is a joke that is supposed to provide some form of peaceful path forward, but current America would be dumbstruck by how angry and defiant both of them were. They wouldn’t be able to deal with the full I have a Dream speech or King’s constant drum beat that white moderates were the problem with America. Compromise was not what they were fighting for.
My thinking was that the ever-escalating war of not accepting the other side's position would be well served for the reasons you describe. Trump was basically conservatives saying "I don't even want a TINY amount of Obama!" and now we want the same amount of Trump.
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On June 06 2018 07:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 06:04 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2018 05:57 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president? We need some kinda MLK-Gandhi fusion. I know this is a joke that is supposed to provide some form of peaceful path forward, but current America would be dumbstruck by how angry and defiant both of them were. They wouldn’t be able to deal with the full I have a Dream speech or King’s constant drum beat that white moderates were the problem with America. Compromise was not what they were fighting for. My thinking was that the ever-escalating war of not accepting the other side's position would be well served for the reasons you describe. Trump was basically conservatives saying "I don't even want a TINY amount of Obama!" and now we want the same amount of Trump.
Agreed. Folks forget that MLK came at the end of the civil rights movement. He was the reasonable, peaceful protester that white moderates finally decided on after a more than decade of racial violence on a national scale. It took a decade of racial violence to get them to listen to someone like MLK. And he didn't back down or listen to people saying he should compromise. People would lose their god damn minds today if he was protesting.
We need more people like that driving politics from outside of power, rather than trying to obtain a seat of power.
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On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president?
As a Philly guy, some other news regarding this...
Multiple player on the team currently, or at the time, have come out and bashed Fox for showing them kneeling while misrepresenting the time frame. Later today, Trump puts out a tweet about how they stayed in the locker room, which is supposedly just as insulting. The Eagles didn't stay in the locker room this year either, that was the Steelers.
And now the NFL has a bitter taste in their mouth because they tried a half measure of appeasement and kind Don has decided that it isn't good enough.
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On June 06 2018 07:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 06:04 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2018 05:57 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president? We need some kinda MLK-Gandhi fusion. I know this is a joke that is supposed to provide some form of peaceful path forward, but current America would be dumbstruck by how angry and defiant both of them were. They wouldn’t be able to deal with the full I have a Dream speech or King’s constant drum beat that white moderates were the problem with America. Compromise was not what they were fighting for. My thinking was that the ever-escalating war of not accepting the other side's position would be well served for the reasons you describe. Trump was basically conservatives saying "I don't even want a TINY amount of Obama!" and now we want the same amount of Trump.
It comes up regularly here, but there's a difference between the intolerance of "others" represented by Trump getting elected as a reaction to Obama's presidency and the subsequent intolerance of intolerance that is the foundation for things like the inauguration day protests and the women's march.
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On June 06 2018 07:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2018 07:31 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2018 06:04 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2018 05:57 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2018 05:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The following happened, in this order: 1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit. 2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump." 3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them. 4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started). 5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump. https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook It's silly because a lot of people are going to hate the Eagles for kneeling during the anthem when they didn't even do it. If being mean to racists makes them more racist, what is it supposed to do when the president lies on you (a citizen, not politician) to the entire country making them angry at you for something you factually didn't do? Disregarding for the moment kneeling is perfectly fine in the first place. Seriously though, if Trump is supposed to be a reaction to "libruls" what the hell is supposed to be the reaction to Trump? We supposed to find Assata Shakur and make her president? We need some kinda MLK-Gandhi fusion. I know this is a joke that is supposed to provide some form of peaceful path forward, but current America would be dumbstruck by how angry and defiant both of them were. They wouldn’t be able to deal with the full I have a Dream speech or King’s constant drum beat that white moderates were the problem with America. Compromise was not what they were fighting for. My thinking was that the ever-escalating war of not accepting the other side's position would be well served for the reasons you describe. Trump was basically conservatives saying "I don't even want a TINY amount of Obama!" and now we want the same amount of Trump. Agreed. Folks forget that MLK came at the end of the civil rights movement. He was the reasonable, peaceful protester that white moderates finally decided on after a more than decade of racial violence on a national scale. It took a decade of racial violence to get them to listen to someone like MLK. And he didn't back down or listen to people saying he should compromise. People would lose their god damn minds today if he was protesting. We need more people like that driving politics from outside of power, rather than trying to obtain a seat of power.
That's pretty revisionist itself. MLK was called "The most dangerous negro in the country" by the FBI after his "I have a Dream" speech, the US government tried to blackmail him into suicide after the Civil Rights Act, and was more hated after all that than before.
They didn't listen, even after the decade. They shot him. I hardly consider that listening. Liking MLK didn't happen until after the disneyfication and whitewashing of the role the US government played in his and many other black leader assassinations.
It wasn't ancient history either. He has contemporaries in congress. People that literally lived along side him are currently in government, disproportionately so (on the white ones) really.
Not to mention it was MLK's socialism that scared the US government even more than his racial politics. The only thing scarier than Black people united against their oppressors was a coalition of oppressed people of all colors and creeds.
I mean this in the least offensive way possible, but you're often espousing the 'white moderate' positions MLK was criticizing, so if you're going to keep referencing it, I sincerely hope you take the time to really understand it.
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The only way to destroy the white washed myth of MLK is an inch at a time. We are doing with a public who thinks MLK would have opposed BLM and was all about compromise, so we gotta walk them back slow. We need to get people to realize they wouldn’t have liked MLK because he talked about race all the time.
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Like how? I need to understand how this happened?
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Your country is giving me a headache. How does anyone, anyone support this level of fuck-headed idiotic incompetence? Next we'll find out they've built a secret lab and are trying to clone Hitler to give speech advice to Trump. Only nobody knows who okayed the building of the lab, provided funding, or found the scientists to staff it, who have never met each other, and also don't know how they got there.
And Michael fucking Cohen was probably part of it somehow, with Paul Manafort's assistance.
*rebooting*
Right, so blue screen of death concluded.
Serious question. Does Trump now officially using the office of the Presidency to bully, intimidate and demean private US citizens require some sort of change to the rules governing the Presidency?
Obviously it's not okay. But more importantly, isn't that the sort of thing that flat-out shouldn't be allowed?
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The dude was a contractor and the warrant was recent, but it is all very strange.
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United States41984 Posts
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On June 06 2018 09:11 iamthedave wrote:Your country is giving me a headache. How does anyone, anyone support this level of fuck-headed idiotic incompetence? Next we'll find out they've built a secret lab and are trying to clone Hitler to give speech advice to Trump. Only nobody knows who okayed the building of the lab, provided funding, or found the scientists to staff it, who have never met each other, and also don't know how they got there. And Michael fucking Cohen was probably part of it somehow, with Paul Manafort's assistance. *rebooting* Right, so blue screen of death concluded. Serious question. Does Trump now officially using the office of the Presidency to bully, intimidate and demean private US citizens require some sort of change to the rules governing the Presidency? Obviously it's not okay. But more importantly, isn't that the sort of thing that flat-out shouldn't be allowed?
yes, it means there probably should be some changes to the rules governing the presidency; but there's generally a long list of changes that should be done to both congress and the presidency, so I doubt anything will be done.
besides, the proper change would've been one preventing someone like that from being president in the first place. Which there simply won't be enough support to implement.
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+ Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/StefaniaFOX10/status/1004136946422018048
Tweet in spoiler, video of cops assaulting a suspect.
My State is going to make the news again. This is the same police dept that executed the unarmed crying man in the hotel a couple years back. This is the 3rd major incident (caught on tape) for mesa PD this year. So far it seems the police chief has placed 4 of these officers on 'administrative leave' but I'm sure they'll be back on the job in no time.
I expect this type of behavior now and again no mater how you 'reform the police' because some people are just shit heads and will exploit their power. I think what bothers me the most is the lack of repercussions or accountability. I get that reform and training etc., is hard but why is it too much to expect something to come from these abuses? Why can't we at minimum hold these bad actors within law enforcement accountable and prosecute?
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On June 06 2018 10:06 crms wrote:+ Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/StefaniaFOX10/status/1004136946422018048
Tweet in spoiler, video of cops assaulting a suspect. My State is going to make the news again. This is the same police dept that executed the unarmed crying man in the hotel a couple years back. This is the 3rd major incident (caught on tape) for mesa PD this year. So far it seems the police chief has placed 4 of these officers on 'administrative leave' but I'm sure they'll be back on the job in no time. I expect this type of behavior now and again no mater how you 'reform the police' because some people are just shit heads and will exploit their power. I think what bothers me the most is the lack of repercussions or accountability. I get that reform and training etc., is hard but why is it too much to expect something to come from these abuses? Why can't we at minimum hold these bad actors within law enforcement accountable and prosecute?
because too many people idolize the police to much/give them too much benefit of the doubt.
it's really just an outgrowth of the voters/citizens behavior.
how much detail do you want on the reasons why these things are insufficiently addressed?
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United States41984 Posts
Holy shit! I kept waiting for something to happen but it was just nothing, the guy was just on the phone. Then out of nowhere they all started beating the shit out of him. Guy was lucky to survive, they literally attempted to beat him to death for nothing.
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EPT
