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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 256

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28918 Posts
June 05 2018 15:23 GMT
#5101
Hong Kong, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates and Belgium look like weird countries to be the biggest trading partner for Utah, Nevada, and I guess Delaware and DC? Whats up with that?
Moderator
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12612 Posts
June 05 2018 15:30 GMT
#5102
Switzerland for Nevada is probably because of how much my friends and I spent last time we were in Vegas
No will to live, no wish to die
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28918 Posts
June 05 2018 15:35 GMT
#5103
hm I can actually see switzerland and nevada make sense because of swiss watches being a typical poker player status symbol. Hong Kong and Utah however, makes less immediate sense.
Moderator
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44409 Posts
June 05 2018 15:36 GMT
#5104
Delaware is an onshore offshore tax haven for shell companies. Their economy is weird.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32755 Posts
June 05 2018 15:39 GMT
#5105
On June 06 2018 00:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:
hm I can actually see switzerland and nevada make sense because of swiss watches being a typical poker player status symbol. Hong Kong and Utah however, makes less immediate sense.

Gold is the primary trade from Utah - Hong Kong, and Nevada - Switzerland apparently.

http://economyutah.blogspot.com/2015/03/utah-golden-child-of-us-exports.html - Utah stats
https://qz.com/268164/why-switzerland-is-nevadas-biggest-foreign-trading-partner/
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-05 15:41:40
June 05 2018 15:40 GMT
#5106
On June 06 2018 00:36 KwarK wrote:
Delaware is an onshore offshore tax haven for shell companies. Their economy is weird.


I dont think its the Incorporating thats the main export, pretty sure theres lots of places other than Belgium that are spending more in that sort of service space in Delaware, someone sent me this the other day, i think its from reddit.

https://imgur.com/MZ9cRwX


Also for anyone interested in what stuff Canada is going to countervail

https://www.fin.gc.ca/activty/consult/cacsap-cmpcaa-eng.asp

The specific rates arent out yet, but if its anything like the current countervailed products its like 110 - 200 percent.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 05 2018 15:53 GMT
#5107
On June 06 2018 00:15 TheDwf wrote:


Is it really wise to piss off the Canada?

Trumps picking bad targets and tariffs are never wise.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 05 2018 15:55 GMT
#5108
On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The following happened, in this order:
1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit.
2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump."
3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them.
4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started).
5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump.

https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook

He canceled the visit and Fox showed that on their news coverage of the cancellation. How did he then cancel the visit a second time upon seeing it?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 05 2018 16:05 GMT
#5109
On June 06 2018 00:55 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The following happened, in this order:
1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit.
2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump."
3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them.
4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started).
5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump.

https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook

He canceled the visit and Fox showed that on their news coverage of the cancellation. How did he then cancel the visit a second time upon seeing it?

He changed his reasoning claiming that they refused to stand for the anthem, which is false and not the reason he gave yesterday in the White House press release.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 05 2018 16:27 GMT
#5110
On June 06 2018 01:05 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2018 00:55 Danglars wrote:
On June 06 2018 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The following happened, in this order:
1. The White House invited the Philadelphia Eagles to come visit.
2. Most of the Eagles said "Hell naw, fuck Trump."
3. Trump started to pout and wanted to come up with a way to reverse the break-up so it looked like he uninvited the Eagles instead of getting turned down by them.
4. Trump turned on Fox News, where reporters were lying about the Eagles players kneeling during the National Anthem (they were actually showing pictures of Eagles players praying long before the game and music started).
5. Trump sees the fake news on Fox, believes it, and decides to uninvite the remaining Eagles players who were actually willing to visit the White House in the first place out of pity for Trump.

https://deadspin.com/fox-news-shows-eagles-players-praying-falsely-implies-1826564582?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_facebook

He canceled the visit and Fox showed that on their news coverage of the cancellation. How did he then cancel the visit a second time upon seeing it?

He changed his reasoning claiming that they refused to stand for the anthem, which is false and not the reason he gave yesterday in the White House press release.

See that makes more sense for a timeline.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
June 05 2018 17:40 GMT
#5111
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/manafort-attempted-to-tamper-with-potential-witnesses-u-s-special-counsel-idUSKCN1J1043

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, who has been indicted by U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, attempted to tamper with potential witnesses, Mueller said in a court filing on Monday.

Mueller, who is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, asked the judge overseeing the case in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to revoke or revise an order releasing Manafort ahead of his trial.

Manafort was released to home confinement after his arraignment in October.

Mueller has indicted Manafort in federal courts in Virginia and Washington, D.C., with an array of allegations from money-laundering and failing to register as a foreign agent, to bank and tax fraud. Manafort has pleaded not guilty.

FBI Special Agent Brock Domin, in a declaration filed with Mueller’s motion, said Manafort had attempted to call, text and send encrypted messages in February to two people from “The Hapsburg Group,” a firm he worked with to promote the interests of Ukraine.

The FBI has documents and statements from the two people, as well as telephone records and documents recovered through a search of Manafort’s iCloud account showing that Trump’s former campaign manager attempted communication while he was out on bail, according to Domin.

The communications were “in an effort to influence their testimony and to otherwise conceal evidence,” Domin wrote. “The investigation into this matter is ongoing.”

Manafort is the most senior member of Trump’s campaign to be indicted, though the charges do not relate to campaign activities.

Mueller urged Judge Amy Berman Jackson to “promptly” schedule a hearing on the whether to change Manafort’s conditions of release, which could result in Manafort going to jail.

The Washington trial is set to start on Sept. 17.


Where does this leave Manafort? Seems like this is a new charge that will be added to his case since this was after he was arrested or turned himself in. Apparently the two people Manafort tried to tamper with handed over everything to Mueller, including text messages. Do you think Trump may try to pardon Manafort here too at this point?
Life?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 05 2018 17:47 GMT
#5112
The Judge set a new hearing for hear further evidence. Considering one of the witnesses turned over the evidence of Manafort trying to get them to commit perjury, I think he is well fucked and going to sit in jail for until trial.

The joker should just flip and get it over with.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 05 2018 17:49 GMT
#5113
On June 06 2018 02:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/manafort-attempted-to-tamper-with-potential-witnesses-u-s-special-counsel-idUSKCN1J1043

Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, who has been indicted by U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, attempted to tamper with potential witnesses, Mueller said in a court filing on Monday.

Mueller, who is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, asked the judge overseeing the case in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to revoke or revise an order releasing Manafort ahead of his trial.

Manafort was released to home confinement after his arraignment in October.

Mueller has indicted Manafort in federal courts in Virginia and Washington, D.C., with an array of allegations from money-laundering and failing to register as a foreign agent, to bank and tax fraud. Manafort has pleaded not guilty.

FBI Special Agent Brock Domin, in a declaration filed with Mueller’s motion, said Manafort had attempted to call, text and send encrypted messages in February to two people from “The Hapsburg Group,” a firm he worked with to promote the interests of Ukraine.

The FBI has documents and statements from the two people, as well as telephone records and documents recovered through a search of Manafort’s iCloud account showing that Trump’s former campaign manager attempted communication while he was out on bail, according to Domin.

The communications were “in an effort to influence their testimony and to otherwise conceal evidence,” Domin wrote. “The investigation into this matter is ongoing.”

Manafort is the most senior member of Trump’s campaign to be indicted, though the charges do not relate to campaign activities.

Mueller urged Judge Amy Berman Jackson to “promptly” schedule a hearing on the whether to change Manafort’s conditions of release, which could result in Manafort going to jail.

The Washington trial is set to start on Sept. 17.


Where does this leave Manafort? Seems like this is a new charge that will be added to his case since this was after he was arrested or turned himself in. Apparently the two people Manafort tried to tamper with handed over everything to Mueller, including text messages. Do you think Trump may try to pardon Manafort here too at this point?

I doubt trump would pardon manafort here. There's no reason to rush a pardon through preemptively; and trump has shown little inclination to risk himself for anyone else. A pardon on manafort here would expose Trump considerably.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-05 17:59:21
June 05 2018 17:58 GMT
#5114
Apparently an undisclosed long-time associate of Manafort's (called "Person A" in the document) also helped to try to secure false testimony. It's probably not a big part of the Trump campaign (likely just someone from Ukraine), but this might also be sending a message to them.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-05 19:16:39
June 05 2018 19:15 GMT
#5115
On June 06 2018 02:49 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2018 02:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/manafort-attempted-to-tamper-with-potential-witnesses-u-s-special-counsel-idUSKCN1J1043

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, who has been indicted by U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, attempted to tamper with potential witnesses, Mueller said in a court filing on Monday.

Mueller, who is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, asked the judge overseeing the case in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to revoke or revise an order releasing Manafort ahead of his trial.

Manafort was released to home confinement after his arraignment in October.

Mueller has indicted Manafort in federal courts in Virginia and Washington, D.C., with an array of allegations from money-laundering and failing to register as a foreign agent, to bank and tax fraud. Manafort has pleaded not guilty.

FBI Special Agent Brock Domin, in a declaration filed with Mueller’s motion, said Manafort had attempted to call, text and send encrypted messages in February to two people from “The Hapsburg Group,” a firm he worked with to promote the interests of Ukraine.

The FBI has documents and statements from the two people, as well as telephone records and documents recovered through a search of Manafort’s iCloud account showing that Trump’s former campaign manager attempted communication while he was out on bail, according to Domin.

The communications were “in an effort to influence their testimony and to otherwise conceal evidence,” Domin wrote. “The investigation into this matter is ongoing.”

Manafort is the most senior member of Trump’s campaign to be indicted, though the charges do not relate to campaign activities.

Mueller urged Judge Amy Berman Jackson to “promptly” schedule a hearing on the whether to change Manafort’s conditions of release, which could result in Manafort going to jail.

The Washington trial is set to start on Sept. 17.


Where does this leave Manafort? Seems like this is a new charge that will be added to his case since this was after he was arrested or turned himself in. Apparently the two people Manafort tried to tamper with handed over everything to Mueller, including text messages. Do you think Trump may try to pardon Manafort here too at this point?

I doubt trump would pardon manafort here. There's no reason to rush a pardon through preemptively; and trump has shown little inclination to risk himself for anyone else. A pardon on manafort here would expose Trump considerably.


there are certainly things that make it seem unlikely but I could think of some reasons for him to do it despite it.
First of all it's a move that shows that he doesn't give a fuck, makes him look "strong" (his kind of srong, hence the quotation marks).
But even more importantly it sends a strong sign to anyone else involved with Mueller that Trump has their backs as long as they stay loyal to him. That is, even if they would end up in jail because of the Mueller investigation, they won't have to go to jail as long as they keep their mouth shut about him.
And his base would totally accept that and cheer it on as Trump dismantling the witch hunt or something like that.

Hard to say imo. Perhaps not now but I'm not so sure about later on.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 05 2018 19:19 GMT
#5116
Manafort has charges pending in NY state as well, which Trump cannot pardon. If he accepts the pardon for the federal charges, they will throw the book at him in the state.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5068 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-05 19:41:03
June 05 2018 19:19 GMT
#5117
My theory on Trump pardons in general is that he likes them, it's not something he needs Congress for, and it looks good. He should obviously keep quiet, but...his tweets about pardons, I think, a response to the leaked letter his team sent to Mueller, where pardons were mentioned. The media became obsessed with that one point above all, so Trump commented. That was probably one of the few times he's even thought about it, since I doubt he read the letter. I don't think this has much to do with Mueller.

This WP article seems to support my view that this isn't nefarious, esp since some of the people really did deserve a pardon (i.e. not Arpio or Blagojevich).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/trump-fixates-on-pardons-could-soon-give-reprieve-to-63-year-old-woman-after-meeting-with-kim-kardashian/2018/06/05/37ac6cb6-683d-11e8-bbc5-dc9f3634fa0a_story.html



"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10979 Posts
June 05 2018 19:22 GMT
#5118
Uhm... Trump likes standing above the law and therefore this bs is somehow ok? Or what exactly did you just say?
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5068 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-05 19:29:23
June 05 2018 19:28 GMT
#5119
On June 06 2018 04:22 Velr wrote:
Uhm... Trump likes standing above the law and therefore this bs is somehow ok? Or what exactly did you just say?



Using a constitutional power is standing above the law? Did I not just say that I'm ok with them if they are used well? Do you know what you are commenting on?

edit: what part of that is bs?
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 05 2018 19:33 GMT
#5120
I think folks are conflating Trump’s recent comments about pardoning himself(which he cannot do) with the pardon your referenced above. Though to be fair, I had to read your post three times because of your opening line. It does give the impression that you are saying the pardons of the people under investigation are good for Trump given the context of the thread.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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