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On February 27 2020 02:34 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The propaganda machine is working really hard in south florida against Bernie Sanders. They keep posting articles around Bernie "proudly" endorsing the Cuban Revolution and the Castros, which is completely out of context. Now a lot of Blue South Floridians are starting to turn on Bernie, it's quite sad to see how the propaganda machine can easily change peoples minds without even looking into facts.
It's kind of dumb to claim you are a socialist in America though. Especially when in fact you are the archetype of the social-democrat.
I understand that it's calculated and that it allows him to build a base of millenials with romantic dreams of The Revolution and ending capitalism and I see why it's good idea to let them fantasize while working on basically making the US look a little more like Denmark, but it gives a shitloads of ammo to the republicans and centrist democrats who can just portray him as, well, a socialist. Which, again, in american terminology, he is obviously not.
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The notion that anything should or should not be campaigned on because it gives the opposition “ammo” is just another facet of the establishment Democratic Party’s obsession with “electability,” a concept that both has a poor track record of determining actual electoral success and effectively hamstrings any and all party movements to the left. It literally does not matter what Sanders runs on, he will be painted as a socialist all the same, so while I find some of Sanders’ lack of polish on situating his brand of “socialism” bothersome, I also think claims that he’s torpedoing his shot because he even uses the word are vastly overstated.
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On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone.
While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever.
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On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever.
Yes, that is partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. On the other hand, Cubans other than the rulers were dirt poor before the revolution too. Batista was about as corrupt as you possibly can be. Fidel didn't help the country and Raúl is not taking the opportunities to change. But the country was poor to begin with and got seriously fucked over when the USSR disintegrated. Some of that fucking over was done by the US out of historical spite.
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On February 27 2020 03:44 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. Yes, that is partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. On the other hand, Cubans other than the rulers were dirt poor before the revolution too. Batista was about as corrupt as you possibly can be. Fidel didn't help the country and Raúl is not taking the opportunities to change. But the country was poor to begin with and got seriously fucked over when the USSR disintegrated. Some of that fucking over was done by the US out of historical spite.
This is essentially my take on the issue as well.
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One thing that was really unsettling last night was how much disdain people conveyed for Cuba. The fuck? They were pretending Cuba is like the KKK. The idea that nothing Cuba did should ever be praised was super chilling. That's not the party I want. I want a party that understands even our worst enemies have some great ideas.
There is no shame in complimenting your enemy. There IS shame in letting hate blind you.
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On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever.
I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table.
When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel
partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation.
You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts?
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On February 27 2020 03:51 Mohdoo wrote:
One thing that was really unsettling last night was how much disdain people conveyed for Cuba. The fuck? They were pretending Cuba is like the KKK. The idea that nothing Cuba did should ever be praised was super chilling. That's not the party I want. I want a party that understands even our worst enemies have some great ideas.
There is no shame in complimenting your enemy. There IS shame in letting hate blind you.
Reminder that the US government considered killing innocent people in/around Florida (Operation Northwoods) to make Cuba look bad and also Rejected Cuban medical assistance while people died from a lack of it around Katrina.
In separate Washington press briefings, both the White House and State Department spokesmen this week downplayed the Cuban government’s offer to send some 1,600 medics, field hospitals and 83 tons of medical supplies to ease the humanitarian disaster.
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack asserted last week that the Cuban medical brigade would probably not be needed since there has been a “robust response from the American medical community.”
www.nbcnews.com
The disdain for Cuba is totally irrational imo
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On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel Show nested quote + partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts?
I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people weren't as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. Bautista was a US pawn, while Castro was USSR pawn. Castro only hated the US after the US denied him.
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On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry.
I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here.
A small sample from his wiki:
Back in power, and receiving financial, military, and logistical support from the United States government,[7][8] Batista suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike.
...
Many people were killed, with estimates ranging from hundreds to about 20,000 people killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista
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On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here.
Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit.
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On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit.
"Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking).
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On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:39 farvacola wrote:
Of course they are, they’re in full-throated Castro lover accusation mode. Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking).
I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day.
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On February 27 2020 04:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Here I am wishing he was that big a fan of Castro, who I'd probably rank better than any US president, given his circumstances. The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking). I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day.
citation needed for killing everyone.
I trust if the US listened to literally every other country on the planet (other than Israel and Brazil) and lifted the embargo there'd be a lot less poverty.
A United Nations agency said on Tuesday an “unjust” U.S. financial and trade embargo on Cuba had cost the country’s economy $130 billion.
www.reuters.com
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On February 27 2020 04:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[quote]
The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking). I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day. citation needed for killing everyone. I trust if the US listened to literally every other country on the planet (other than Israel) and lifted the embargo there'd be a lot less poverty. Show nested quote +A United Nations agency said on Tuesday an “unjust” U.S. financial and trade embargo on Cuba had cost the country’s economy $130 billion. www.reuters.com
That's the problem, what makes you think that money will affect the daily lives of the Cuban people? It won't, it'll just go into the pockets of the powerful.
Here's some old articles about the "genocide" of Cuban people using starvation which is still a huge problem till this day. Then Castro has the nerve to say it's the worlds fault...
https://apnews.com/77fc824c2e7ef138407c0698537c60fe
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/millions-of-cubans-facing-starvation-hunger-is-fuelling-an-exodus-of-desperate-refugees-writes-phil-1417691.html
The Cuban people die daily of starvation, but you think the Cuban government is going to report on that? Hardly. The Cuban government has so much money, enough to end the hunger, and poverty on the island multiple times over, but they don't. The Castro's only enrich themselves.
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Northern Ireland25648 Posts
On February 27 2020 04:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 02:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[quote]
The Castros are pieces of shits. Like literal pieces of shit. I don't think there is a reasonable comparison to any US Presidents aside from Trump... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice. EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking). I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day. citation needed for killing everyone. I trust if the US listened to literally every other country on the planet (other than Israel and Brazil) and lifted the embargo there'd be a lot less poverty. Show nested quote +A United Nations agency said on Tuesday an “unjust” U.S. financial and trade embargo on Cuba had cost the country’s economy $130 billion. www.reuters.com
Cuba is sort of the inverse of Israel, treated with a persistent shittiness out of proportion to its power based on where it’s located.
Not going to go into the wider Cuba discussion, it does rather devolve quickly, why it was thrown at Sanders after all.
I do like that we’re starting to hear more of the ‘other countries can have universal healthcare that costs less’ as a talking point, not really within the confines of this thread but I’ve encountered many folks on my travels where this is new information that has changed opinions.
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On February 27 2020 04:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice.
EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking). I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day. citation needed for killing everyone. I trust if the US listened to literally every other country on the planet (other than Israel) and lifted the embargo there'd be a lot less poverty. A United Nations agency said on Tuesday an “unjust” U.S. financial and trade embargo on Cuba had cost the country’s economy $130 billion. www.reuters.com That's the problem, what makes you think that money will affect the daily lives of the Cuban people? It won't, it'll just go into the pockets of the powerful. Here's some old articles about the "genocide" of Cuban people using starvation which is still a huge problem till this day. Then Castro has the nerve to say it's the worlds fault... https://apnews.com/77fc824c2e7ef138407c0698537c60fehttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/millions-of-cubans-facing-starvation-hunger-is-fuelling-an-exodus-of-desperate-refugees-writes-phil-1417691.htmlThe Cuban people die daily of starvation, but you think the Cuban government is going to report on that? Hardly. The Cuban government has so much money, enough to end the hunger, and poverty on the island multiple times over, but they don't. The Castro's only enrich themselves.
Your articles are dated November 16, 1996 and 2 July 1994.
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On February 27 2020 04:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice.
EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking). I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day. citation needed for killing everyone. I trust if the US listened to literally every other country on the planet (other than Israel) and lifted the embargo there'd be a lot less poverty. A United Nations agency said on Tuesday an “unjust” U.S. financial and trade embargo on Cuba had cost the country’s economy $130 billion. www.reuters.com That's the problem, what makes you think that money will affect the daily lives of the Cuban people? It won't, it'll just go into the pockets of the powerful. Here's some old articles about the "genocide" of Cuban people using starvation which is still a huge problem till this day. Then Castro has the nerve to say it's the worlds fault... https://apnews.com/77fc824c2e7ef138407c0698537c60fehttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/millions-of-cubans-facing-starvation-hunger-is-fuelling-an-exodus-of-desperate-refugees-writes-phil-1417691.htmlThe Cuban people die daily of starvation, but you think the Cuban government is going to report on that? Hardly. The Cuban government has so much money, enough to end the hunger, and poverty on the island multiple times over, but they don't. The Castro's only enrich themselves.
That first article is about both the Pope (anti-communist btw), and Castro decrying sanctions and the starving of people around the world as a result, not just Cuba.
+ Show Spoiler +``Why is it (the world) not equally moved by that genocide which is taking place every day in front of our eyes?″
``Why is it that criminal policies and absurd blockades that include food and medicines are being added ... with the purpose of annihilating whole populations with hunger and diseases?″ Castro said.
The pope opened the summit on Wednesday by denouncing the use of economic embargoes and sanctions.
Which again the UN now agrees are unjust.
The second are anecdotes from some person I am unable to identify (I guess he writes obits?) and pointing to people fleeing on rafts, which I admit is bad, but I'm not arguing he was perfect. Just better than US presidents.
Neither are citations of him killing everyone. Also the US has ~500,000 sleeping on the streets, 11,000,000 kids experiencing food insecurity, 10's of thousands dying from lack of medical care, etc... while being the wealthiest country on the planet and the top 3 people holding more wealth than the bottom 100,000,000+ people in this country.
EDIT: Just want to recap that thus far the argument has been that Castro is worse than all US presidents besides maybe Trump because Castro killed everyone by way of starvation (and US foreign policy doesn't count against US presidents).
With those two articles from the 90's as the supporting evidence.
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On February 27 2020 04:56 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2020 04:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 04:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 03:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 27 2020 03:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 27 2020 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but I think the data/history shows otherwise and would be willing to demonstrate as much with a specific president of your choice.
EDIT: Generally speaking, GWB is easily worse based on Iraq alone. While US presidents have yes, fucked over other countries, they at least haven't fucked their own country. The Castros have literally fucked their own country to the dark ages. Everyone is dirt fucking poor in Cuba except those in power. I don't think you can compare them ever. I already told you I can and will. Though by inexplicably excluding the president's primary domain of influence (foreign policy) you've already significantly tilted the table. When it comes to wealth distribution, Cuba is better than the US, and it improved dramatically as soon as Castro took power. Adv. Fidel partially on the Castros for sucking horribly at recognizing their geopolitical situation. You mean not being willing to be a vassal of the US while they pillaged their resources? Or not letting the CIA assassinate him in one of their dozens of attempts? I visit Cuba very frequently, and wealth distribution is non existent in Cuba, so I don't now where you're getting that kind of data from. Even if Cubans were dirt poor before Castro, Bautista still provided a better life for Cubans than what Castro has done for Cuba. Overall, Castro himself admitted that the people we're as hungry under Bautista, where under Castro every Cuban went hungry. I guess if you're actually arguing Batista was better there's nowhere to go from here. Bautista only killed the middle class, and his political opponenets, Castro killed everyone. As a person with a large Cuban heritage, all my family agrees that Castro was 100x worse than Bautista. Yes Bautista was still shit, Castro was total shit. "Castro killed everyone" is just hyperbolic nonsense. I'd venture to say your ability to frequently travel to Cuba and your family's preference for Batista are probably related (statistically speaking). I don't prefer either or, but the only thing good that came out of Castro was his Education system, which is what Bernie endorses, but also the reason why all the Cubans are up in arms because Bernie endorsed one idea of the Castro regime. Imagine just one idea from Castro and almost every Cuban is against Bernie in an instant. Castro did kill everyone, whether you don't want to believe it or not, he let his Cuban population starve, and still starve till this day. citation needed for killing everyone. I trust if the US listened to literally every other country on the planet (other than Israel and Brazil) and lifted the embargo there'd be a lot less poverty. A United Nations agency said on Tuesday an “unjust” U.S. financial and trade embargo on Cuba had cost the country’s economy $130 billion. www.reuters.com Cuba is sort of the inverse of Israel, treated with a persistent shittiness out of proportion to its power based on where it’s located. Not going to go into the wider Cuba discussion, it does rather devolve quickly, why it was thrown at Sanders after all. I do like that we’re starting to hear more of the ‘other countries can have universal healthcare that costs less’ as a talking point, not really within the confines of this thread but I’ve encountered many folks on my travels where this is new information that has changed opinions.
Saudi Arabia is still beheading people and bombing/starving innocent children with our material support. Both Cuba and Saudi Arabia have national healthcare though. Israel too if you don't consider Palestinians.
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EPT
