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On February 13 2020 05:47 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think. I'll admit, barely 10% on income tax for an income in that range sounds a little bit off, but I guess you're sure about what you pay ? If I look at your federal tax brackets, you should pay around 15770 on a 90000 pay (17% overall) edit : oops I didn't account for the standard deduction, which would bring it to roughly 12500$. 50$ monthly health insurance coverage sounds extremely low though. Are you actually reimbursed anything if you have a stay in the hospital, or do you have thousands in deductibles before anything is taken care of ?
That is insanely low rate he's paying, I wouldn't doubt when he files taxes, they ask him to pay more. Based on BankRate he should be paying 24%... I'm in the same bracket, but I'm paying nearly 32%... so something doesn't add up.
edit: just to add, I have a CPA, and I usually get money back due to the excess tax I pay.
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On February 13 2020 07:45 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 05:47 Nouar wrote:On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think. I'll admit, barely 10% on income tax for an income in that range sounds a little bit off, but I guess you're sure about what you pay ? If I look at your federal tax brackets, you should pay around 15770 on a 90000 pay (17% overall) edit : oops I didn't account for the standard deduction, which would bring it to roughly 12500$. 50$ monthly health insurance coverage sounds extremely low though. Are you actually reimbursed anything if you have a stay in the hospital, or do you have thousands in deductibles before anything is taken care of ? That is insanely low rate he's paying, I wouldn't doubt when he files taxes, they ask him to pay more. Based on BankRate he should be paying 24%... I'm in the same bracket, but I'm paying nearly 32%... so something doesn't add up. edit: just to add, I have a CPA, and I usually get money back due to the excess tax I pay.
His *marginal* tax bracket is 24%. Not on the total amount, so he would never pay 24% on his whole income. He answered adding a lot of retirement and health stuff he probably gets some additional deduction for. I wonder also if you get deduction for a part of the state taxes. Thought i read that somewhere a while ago...
It's still on the low end though !
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On February 13 2020 07:55 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 07:45 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 13 2020 05:47 Nouar wrote:On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think. I'll admit, barely 10% on income tax for an income in that range sounds a little bit off, but I guess you're sure about what you pay ? If I look at your federal tax brackets, you should pay around 15770 on a 90000 pay (17% overall) edit : oops I didn't account for the standard deduction, which would bring it to roughly 12500$. 50$ monthly health insurance coverage sounds extremely low though. Are you actually reimbursed anything if you have a stay in the hospital, or do you have thousands in deductibles before anything is taken care of ? That is insanely low rate he's paying, I wouldn't doubt when he files taxes, they ask him to pay more. Based on BankRate he should be paying 24%... I'm in the same bracket, but I'm paying nearly 32%... so something doesn't add up. edit: just to add, I have a CPA, and I usually get money back due to the excess tax I pay. His *marginal* tax bracket is 24%. Not on the total amount, so he would never pay 24% on his whole income. He answered adding a lot of retirement and health stuff he probably gets some additional deduction for. I wonder also if you get deduction for a part of the state taxes. Thought i read that somewhere a while ago... It's still on the low end though !
Saving about a third of your salary in untaxable accounts is an outlier for sure. Do people normally include or exclude FICA when they discuss taxes?
You can claim state taxes as an itemized deduction, but you're probably talking marginal amounts over the standard deduction at best at this income level most likely.
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On February 13 2020 01:14 farvacola wrote:
Yang said in a CNN interview given today that he is ready and willing to serve as another candidate’s VP.
Gabbard/Yang with Vermin Supreme as Sec of Education, better or worse than Trump/Pence and Betsy DeVos as Sec of Education?
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I wanna argue against it as a matter of course, but the answer must be better.
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On February 12 2020 23:10 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 22:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 12 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:37 Trainrunnef wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to30-40% (9) 47% 20-30% (6) 32% 40-50% (3) 16% 50-60% (1) 5% i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes. (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to (Vote): 20-30%
(Vote): 30-40%
(Vote): 40-50%
(Vote): 50-60%
(Vote): i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes.
In the UK we pay income tax and national insurance (which is supposed to spent on the NHS). In total, when i was working last year, these added up to 12.36%. You haven't left an option for that. I used this tool: https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.phpand a salary of £18,000 for that. Are we going to factor in VAT here too? That 80-90% tax rate on me daily pack of fags does rather add up. I guess if we add VAT you would have to do maths that i don't know how to do (this applies to basically all maths) but it would be 12.36% on income plus 20% on purchases. The problem is that most tax systems are so complicated that it is really hard to get a good answer to the question of how much of your income is spent on taxes. You would basically need to actually look at peoples consumption habits, and possibly average over a reasonable slice of the population. In Germany for example, there are a bunch of different VAT levels, plus some vice taxes. So you can't simply say that you have to pay 20% of the money you earn after taxes as VAT (that would be pretty easy to calculate, simply multiply the money remaining. 60% after income taxes * 80% after VAT means you pay a total of 1-0.8*0.6=52% in taxes), because it depends on what kind of stuff you are buying. If you are buying more food, then there is less VAT onto that stuff. If you are buying lots of booze and cigarettes, you are spending a lot more on taxes. In you example, you would pay a total of about 30% in taxes. (1-(1-0.1236)*0.8)= 0.29888
Don’t forget you guys are comparing countries with MUCH SMALLER populations than the US. Any healthcare program would be much easier to implement in a 20m population country compared to 300m.
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On February 13 2020 09:34 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 23:10 Simberto wrote:On February 12 2020 22:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 12 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:37 Trainrunnef wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to30-40% (9) 47% 20-30% (6) 32% 40-50% (3) 16% 50-60% (1) 5% i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes. (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to (Vote): 20-30%
(Vote): 30-40%
(Vote): 40-50%
(Vote): 50-60%
(Vote): i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes.
In the UK we pay income tax and national insurance (which is supposed to spent on the NHS). In total, when i was working last year, these added up to 12.36%. You haven't left an option for that. I used this tool: https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.phpand a salary of £18,000 for that. Are we going to factor in VAT here too? That 80-90% tax rate on me daily pack of fags does rather add up. I guess if we add VAT you would have to do maths that i don't know how to do (this applies to basically all maths) but it would be 12.36% on income plus 20% on purchases. The problem is that most tax systems are so complicated that it is really hard to get a good answer to the question of how much of your income is spent on taxes. You would basically need to actually look at peoples consumption habits, and possibly average over a reasonable slice of the population. In Germany for example, there are a bunch of different VAT levels, plus some vice taxes. So you can't simply say that you have to pay 20% of the money you earn after taxes as VAT (that would be pretty easy to calculate, simply multiply the money remaining. 60% after income taxes * 80% after VAT means you pay a total of 1-0.8*0.6=52% in taxes), because it depends on what kind of stuff you are buying. If you are buying more food, then there is less VAT onto that stuff. If you are buying lots of booze and cigarettes, you are spending a lot more on taxes. In you example, you would pay a total of about 30% in taxes. (1-(1-0.1236)*0.8)= 0.29888 Don’t forget you guys are comparing countries with MUCH SMALLER populations than the US. Any healthcare program would be much easier to implement in a 20m population country compared to 300m.
Why does that matter?
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On February 13 2020 09:34 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 23:10 Simberto wrote:On February 12 2020 22:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 12 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:37 Trainrunnef wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to30-40% (9) 47% 20-30% (6) 32% 40-50% (3) 16% 50-60% (1) 5% i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes. (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to (Vote): 20-30%
(Vote): 30-40%
(Vote): 40-50%
(Vote): 50-60%
(Vote): i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes.
In the UK we pay income tax and national insurance (which is supposed to spent on the NHS). In total, when i was working last year, these added up to 12.36%. You haven't left an option for that. I used this tool: https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.phpand a salary of £18,000 for that. Are we going to factor in VAT here too? That 80-90% tax rate on me daily pack of fags does rather add up. I guess if we add VAT you would have to do maths that i don't know how to do (this applies to basically all maths) but it would be 12.36% on income plus 20% on purchases. The problem is that most tax systems are so complicated that it is really hard to get a good answer to the question of how much of your income is spent on taxes. You would basically need to actually look at peoples consumption habits, and possibly average over a reasonable slice of the population. In Germany for example, there are a bunch of different VAT levels, plus some vice taxes. So you can't simply say that you have to pay 20% of the money you earn after taxes as VAT (that would be pretty easy to calculate, simply multiply the money remaining. 60% after income taxes * 80% after VAT means you pay a total of 1-0.8*0.6=52% in taxes), because it depends on what kind of stuff you are buying. If you are buying more food, then there is less VAT onto that stuff. If you are buying lots of booze and cigarettes, you are spending a lot more on taxes. In you example, you would pay a total of about 30% in taxes. (1-(1-0.1236)*0.8)= 0.29888 Don’t forget you guys are comparing countries with MUCH SMALLER populations than the US. Any healthcare program would be much easier to implement in a 20m population country compared to 300m.
A slow rollout of universal HC is the best solution. Like marijuana, you just need a few states to start and show the numbers. Cali, NY, Illinois, Georgia. Get those 4 states (probably start with the largest cities/urban centers) and it'll trickle out to other states.
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Canada11381 Posts
On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think.
So by point of comparison, I made $52,000 CAD, and had 11,400 taxed away (including Employment Insurance and Canadian Pension Plan). So I guess that's about 22%? Tax time, I can get some of it back. So we pay about the same amount, but I'm close to half of what you make.
Incidentally, because I live in BC up until January of this year, we were also paying $37.50/month on top of our regular taxes as a medical premium (MSP). Employer always automatically deducted MSP, and it's calculated off of last year's income, so it was a fun suprise when I got layed off and suddenly got this additional bill (which I think was higher at the time- it's been progressively lowered) based on my previous income.
That also does not include sales tax, which varies exactly when to pay fed, prov, both or neither, but if both, it's a 12% sales tax.
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On February 13 2020 10:11 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think. So by point of comparison, I made $52,000 CAD, and had 11,400 taxed away (including Employment Insurance and Canadian Pension Plan). So I guess that's about 22%? Tax time, I can get some of it back. So we pay about the same amount, but I'm close to half of what you make. Incidentally, because I live in BC up until January of this year, we were also paying $37.50/month on top of our regular taxes as a medical premium (MSP). Employer always automatically deducted MSP, and it's calculated off of last year's income, so it was a fun suprise when I got layed off and suddenly got this additional bill (which I think was higher at the time- it's been progressively lowered) based on my previous income. That also does not include sales tax, which varies exactly when to pay fed, prov, both or neither, but if both, it's a 12% sales tax.
I forgot to add in Social Security + Medicare, so that will bump me up some, I just looked at income tax at first.
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On February 13 2020 05:47 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think. I'll admit, barely 10% on income tax for an income in that range sounds a little bit off, but I guess you're sure about what you pay ? If I look at your federal tax brackets, you should pay around 15770 on a 90000 pay (17% overall) edit : oops I didn't account for the standard deduction, which would bring it to roughly 12500$. 50$ monthly health insurance coverage sounds extremely low though. Are you actually reimbursed anything if you have a stay in the hospital, or do you have thousands in deductibles before anything is taken care of ?
What do the higher brackets in France look like?
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On February 13 2020 01:14 farvacola wrote:
Yang said in a CNN interview given today that he is ready and willing to serve as another candidate’s VP.
I would say that's the best situation Yang could hope for, boost his biggest problem his name recognition and given his age it would still lead the door open for him to run again in 4-8 years.
He's actually makes a pretty good VP choice his popularity isn't large enough that him transitioning to VP isn't a tough pill to swallow and he does bring at least some amount of support with him given he has pretty dedicated supporters. I'm not sure how will he could sell someone else's platform though. Either way we probably wouldn't hear anything until the month before the convention.
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On February 13 2020 09:34 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 23:10 Simberto wrote:On February 12 2020 22:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 12 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:37 Trainrunnef wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to30-40% (9) 47% 20-30% (6) 32% 40-50% (3) 16% 50-60% (1) 5% i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes. (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to (Vote): 20-30%
(Vote): 30-40%
(Vote): 40-50%
(Vote): 50-60%
(Vote): i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes.
In the UK we pay income tax and national insurance (which is supposed to spent on the NHS). In total, when i was working last year, these added up to 12.36%. You haven't left an option for that. I used this tool: https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.phpand a salary of £18,000 for that. Are we going to factor in VAT here too? That 80-90% tax rate on me daily pack of fags does rather add up. I guess if we add VAT you would have to do maths that i don't know how to do (this applies to basically all maths) but it would be 12.36% on income plus 20% on purchases. The problem is that most tax systems are so complicated that it is really hard to get a good answer to the question of how much of your income is spent on taxes. You would basically need to actually look at peoples consumption habits, and possibly average over a reasonable slice of the population. In Germany for example, there are a bunch of different VAT levels, plus some vice taxes. So you can't simply say that you have to pay 20% of the money you earn after taxes as VAT (that would be pretty easy to calculate, simply multiply the money remaining. 60% after income taxes * 80% after VAT means you pay a total of 1-0.8*0.6=52% in taxes), because it depends on what kind of stuff you are buying. If you are buying more food, then there is less VAT onto that stuff. If you are buying lots of booze and cigarettes, you are spending a lot more on taxes. In you example, you would pay a total of about 30% in taxes. (1-(1-0.1236)*0.8)= 0.29888 Don’t forget you guys are comparing countries with MUCH SMALLER populations than the US. Any healthcare program would be much easier to implement in a 20m population country compared to 300m.
Brazil has universal healthcare... It isn't great, but it services everyone, even in the remotest of remote locations (of which Brazil has a lot more and harder than the US). Brazil is also faaaaaaaaar poorer than the US. So how come they manage?
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On February 13 2020 17:26 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 09:34 Dante08 wrote:On February 12 2020 23:10 Simberto wrote:On February 12 2020 22:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 12 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:37 Trainrunnef wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to30-40% (9) 47% 20-30% (6) 32% 40-50% (3) 16% 50-60% (1) 5% i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes. (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to (Vote): 20-30%
(Vote): 30-40%
(Vote): 40-50%
(Vote): 50-60%
(Vote): i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes.
In the UK we pay income tax and national insurance (which is supposed to spent on the NHS). In total, when i was working last year, these added up to 12.36%. You haven't left an option for that. I used this tool: https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.phpand a salary of £18,000 for that. Are we going to factor in VAT here too? That 80-90% tax rate on me daily pack of fags does rather add up. I guess if we add VAT you would have to do maths that i don't know how to do (this applies to basically all maths) but it would be 12.36% on income plus 20% on purchases. The problem is that most tax systems are so complicated that it is really hard to get a good answer to the question of how much of your income is spent on taxes. You would basically need to actually look at peoples consumption habits, and possibly average over a reasonable slice of the population. In Germany for example, there are a bunch of different VAT levels, plus some vice taxes. So you can't simply say that you have to pay 20% of the money you earn after taxes as VAT (that would be pretty easy to calculate, simply multiply the money remaining. 60% after income taxes * 80% after VAT means you pay a total of 1-0.8*0.6=52% in taxes), because it depends on what kind of stuff you are buying. If you are buying more food, then there is less VAT onto that stuff. If you are buying lots of booze and cigarettes, you are spending a lot more on taxes. In you example, you would pay a total of about 30% in taxes. (1-(1-0.1236)*0.8)= 0.29888 Don’t forget you guys are comparing countries with MUCH SMALLER populations than the US. Any healthcare program would be much easier to implement in a 20m population country compared to 300m. Brazil has universal healthcare... It isn't great, but it services everyone, even in the remotest of remote locations (of which Brazil has a lot more and harder than the US). Brazil is also faaaaaaaaar poorer than the US. So how come they manage?
What do you mean by "manage"? Have you lived in one of those countries?
Here in Sweden: terrible doctors (try their best to send you home), crazy queue (3 months for a brain scan, 12 hours for some ultrasound if you are lucky) and very very expensive private clinic if any.
Sure they treat infection superfast, cancer detection is great but the general rule of thumb is: let's not be sick. That, or travel to Germany or Finland for way better, faster private help. Some people are begging for help because issues regarding stomach for example are very hard to tell out right.
And I pay crazy tax for that, and Sweden only has 10 million population. I have many other traumatic stories but you get the idea. Anyone shouting "free healthcare for yall now!" in a 300million pop country is either lying or shortsighted.
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Germany has 80 mln, Europe has 740 mln. Russia is both much larger, much more diverse geographically and much more poorer than US with 150 mln people. The main obstacle to US having universal health care is not geography but resistance of population.
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22107 Posts
Cranking out doctors to meet demand isn't that easy considering you have to learn almost everything medicine has to offer before specializing which takes a lot of time.
Reforming the education away to a more specialized system that requires less time off the bat would help. But we're still stuck with the traditional one.
Don't see why a surgeon should have to learn all the stuff from fields he will not need and vice versa. Knowing the molecular mechanisms behind tumor growth won't make him operate better. For all I know pharmacology, anatomy and operating techniques are the key know-hows of a surgeon.
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On February 13 2020 18:24 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 17:26 Acrofales wrote:On February 13 2020 09:34 Dante08 wrote:On February 12 2020 23:10 Simberto wrote:On February 12 2020 22:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 12 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 12 2020 22:37 Trainrunnef wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to30-40% (9) 47% 20-30% (6) 32% 40-50% (3) 16% 50-60% (1) 5% i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes. (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: what % of gross pay do taxes, ins. and stud. loans add up to (Vote): 20-30%
(Vote): 30-40%
(Vote): 40-50%
(Vote): 50-60%
(Vote): i don't pay for insurance outside of taxes.
In the UK we pay income tax and national insurance (which is supposed to spent on the NHS). In total, when i was working last year, these added up to 12.36%. You haven't left an option for that. I used this tool: https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.phpand a salary of £18,000 for that. Are we going to factor in VAT here too? That 80-90% tax rate on me daily pack of fags does rather add up. I guess if we add VAT you would have to do maths that i don't know how to do (this applies to basically all maths) but it would be 12.36% on income plus 20% on purchases. The problem is that most tax systems are so complicated that it is really hard to get a good answer to the question of how much of your income is spent on taxes. You would basically need to actually look at peoples consumption habits, and possibly average over a reasonable slice of the population. In Germany for example, there are a bunch of different VAT levels, plus some vice taxes. So you can't simply say that you have to pay 20% of the money you earn after taxes as VAT (that would be pretty easy to calculate, simply multiply the money remaining. 60% after income taxes * 80% after VAT means you pay a total of 1-0.8*0.6=52% in taxes), because it depends on what kind of stuff you are buying. If you are buying more food, then there is less VAT onto that stuff. If you are buying lots of booze and cigarettes, you are spending a lot more on taxes. In you example, you would pay a total of about 30% in taxes. (1-(1-0.1236)*0.8)= 0.29888 Don’t forget you guys are comparing countries with MUCH SMALLER populations than the US. Any healthcare program would be much easier to implement in a 20m population country compared to 300m. Brazil has universal healthcare... It isn't great, but it services everyone, even in the remotest of remote locations (of which Brazil has a lot more and harder than the US). Brazil is also faaaaaaaaar poorer than the US. So how come they manage? What do you mean by "manage"? Have you lived in one of those countries? Here in Sweden: terrible doctors (try their best to send you home), crazy queue (3 months for a brain scan, 12 hours for some ultrasound if you are lucky) and very very expensive private clinic if any. Sure they treat infection superfast, cancer detection is great but the general rule of thumb is: let's not be sick. That, or travel to Germany or Finland for way better, faster private help. Some people are begging for help because issues regarding stomach for example are very hard to tell out right. And I pay crazy tax for that, and Sweden only has 10 million population. I have many other traumatic stories but you get the idea. Anyone shouting "free healthcare for yall now!" in a 300million pop country is either lying or shortsighted.
Yes, I lived in Brazil. I even used public healthcare there for a year and a half before I caved and got private insurance. It wasn't really a big difference for the general day-to-day stuff, but if I had gotten anything serious it would have been a lot better. Particularly for waiting times on tests.
Right now I'm waiting to get anything the doctor can give me to help me sleep through terrible coughing fits from the flu (self-diagnosed, it's worse than a common cold) at the public healthcare in Spain. Once again, people moan and waiting times for non-urgent stuff are pretty bad. But about 10 years ago before the neolibs took all the money out of it because "austerity" and haven't refunded it since, it was a lot better. Once again, I only got private insurance this month and mainly because my wife needs some specialist care and in the public system can only get an appointment every 6 months. She doesn't have anything threatening or urgent, but it does bother her and hopefully access to private clinics can speed the process of finding a cure up.
I have also lived in Holland, which has mandatory price-regulated private insurance (I guess what Obamacare was supposed to be?) with tax breaks and subsidies for poor and lower middle class people. It's been a while since I lived there, but my parents seem quite satisfied.
Public healthcare isn't a panacea. But if the US were to take all the money they spend on healthcare right now (which is an absurd amount) and use it to structure and fund a public system, I am quite convinced they could continue to provide a similar level of service to those who currently have private insurance... and provide that care for those who currently have nothing.
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On February 13 2020 11:40 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2020 05:47 Nouar wrote:On February 13 2020 05:03 Chewbacca. wrote:
The numbers that people are reporting are vastly greater than what I'm calculating for myself. I was wondering if I'm not calculating this the same way as others, or where the largest difference is -- Student loans?
Salary about $90,000
Federal Income Taxes last year about $6000
State Income Taxes last year about $3500
Health Insurance premium is about $50 per paycheck for $1300 per year.
No student loans. No property taxes (Rental).
(6000+3500+1300)/90,000 = 12%
I guess I'm not including sales tax, but that would only raise it at most 1-2% I would think. I'll admit, barely 10% on income tax for an income in that range sounds a little bit off, but I guess you're sure about what you pay ? If I look at your federal tax brackets, you should pay around 15770 on a 90000 pay (17% overall) edit : oops I didn't account for the standard deduction, which would bring it to roughly 12500$. 50$ monthly health insurance coverage sounds extremely low though. Are you actually reimbursed anything if you have a stay in the hospital, or do you have thousands in deductibles before anything is taken care of ? What do the higher brackets in France look like?
Under 10k : 0%
10k-25k : 11%
26k-73k : 30%
74k-158k : 40%
Above : 45%
You get a flat 10% deduction for professionnal costs (going to work costs money).
There is also a discount with a complicated formula if you are in the low end of the 11% bracket.
The belgium tax rate is a bit crazy, but discounts are impossible to calculate in advance, si i can't explain them, it's not AS Bad as it looks.
The deduction (non taxable part) is something like 10k i believe
0-13k : 25%
13k-23k : 40%
23k-40k : 45%
Over 40k : 50%
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On February 13 2020 19:18 Vivax wrote:
Cranking out doctors to meet demand isn't that easy considering you have to learn almost everything medicine has to offer before specializing which takes a lot of time.
Reforming the education away to a more specialized system that requires less time off the bat would help. But we're still stuck with the traditional one.
Don't see why a surgeon should have to learn all the stuff from fields he will not need and vice versa. Knowing the molecular mechanisms behind tumor growth won't make him operate better. For all I know pharmacology, anatomy and operating techniques are the key know-hows of a surgeon.
Ehhh. That assumes an 18-yo knows he wants to be a heart surgeon (or... a proctologist) off the bat. Rather than getting a general medical education, and the chance to do internships to figure out what is interesting and where their skills lie.
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It also makes communication between doctors worse, because they don't all have the same basic knowledge.
Also, since people are discussing healthcare systems, I am very happy with the healthcare system here in Germany. I can go to a doctor, will maybe have to wait for a few hours if i am without an appointment and it is very busy, and get treated. If things aren't urgent, i can make an appointment by phone, usually within a week or two, and have to wait for less than half an hour at the doctors place in my experience. If things are really really urgent, i can walk into the ER of a clinic, or call an ambulance which arrives within 5 minutes. The system also covers stuff like psychotherapy if you get a diagnosis stating that you need it (which isn't that hard if you need it).
The only things i need to pay out of my pocket for is over the counter medicine, which is usually ~5-10€ or so. And i am in the public insurance system, not the private one which exists side-by-side with the public one.
Oh, and our system costs less than 2/3 as much per capita compared to the US system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
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EPT
