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On February 06 2020 11:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
Is there a particular reason this needlessly complicated system is utilised? I presume it’s a holdout from a totally different era that’s just stuck around?
Lotta that going around. Caucuses are a pretty dumb system imo. I can kinda see why people like the aesthetic - it’s got a very town hall/citizenship in action vibe - but it kinda works out to a weird approximation of ranked choice voting with some goofy electoral college-like weighting.
To me, priorities in an election system for assessing public opinion should be:
1) not manipulable
2) precise
3) accurate
In that order. That is, it’s most important to make sure nobody can rig it. After that it’s important that there’s no ambiguity in the outcome. After that it’s important that the outcome line up exactly with the popular opinion.
Caucuses are pretty good on 1) at least - you’ve got a pretty finite number of locations where voting happens, and hundreds of witnesses in each place as to what the outcome is. It should be okay on 2), at least in theory, although this time around they’re bungling that quite a bit. On 3) they’re just atrocious. The whole thing would fall apart if any reasonable portion of the population turned out, which they won’t because you’re asking people to show up for some undefined number of hours to shout at each other. How’s anybody with kids supposed to manage that? Peer pressuring people’s votes is very real.
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On February 06 2020 11:46 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Sanders Romney 2020
for the ultimate anime twist romney is an experienced flip-flopper and weather-vane of a politician. he'd at least consider it.
Funny, seems like the wind in the Republican caucus was blowing in a pretty strong “find any excuse to acquit” direction, and Romney was the only one who *didn’t* turn to follow it.
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On February 06 2020 11:17 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 11:12 Gahlo wrote:On February 06 2020 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Sanders Romney 2020
for the ultimate anime twist The heel turn. "I was just getting started with Romneycare." Their hybrid would be something like everyone gets Medicare, but you have to pay $40 per month.
As far as this conversation goes, all of my Republican friends would rather pay the $400/mo apparently over $40.
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On February 06 2020 11:54 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 11:46 Introvert wrote:On February 06 2020 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Sanders Romney 2020
for the ultimate anime twist romney is an experienced flip-flopper and weather-vane of a politician. he'd at least consider it. Funny, seems like the wind in the Republican caucus was blowing in a pretty strong “find any excuse to acquit” direction, and Romney was the only one who *didn’t* turn to follow it.
Who said Republicanism was the wind? Romney is basically the archetype of the Republican conservatives detest, even in 2012. All the outright lies people told about him in 2012 and he barely fought back. People like him are in large part why we have Trump now. meanwhile these same smear peddlers praise him today. No, Mitt is out for Mitt.
And to make my statement seem more plausible consider that the man was both gov of MA and is now a senator from Utah and ran for the office in his 70s. While he seems a decent and good man in his personal life, his political life is far less principled.
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On February 06 2020 11:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
Is there a particular reason this needlessly complicated system is utilised? I presume it’s a holdout from a totally different era that’s just stuck around?
As a wise man once said.
"This is america"
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On February 06 2020 12:12 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 11:54 ChristianS wrote:On February 06 2020 11:46 Introvert wrote:On February 06 2020 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Sanders Romney 2020
for the ultimate anime twist romney is an experienced flip-flopper and weather-vane of a politician. he'd at least consider it. Funny, seems like the wind in the Republican caucus was blowing in a pretty strong “find any excuse to acquit” direction, and Romney was the only one who *didn’t* turn to follow it. Who said Republicanism was the wind? Romney is basically the archetype of the Republican conservatives detest, even in 2012. All the outright lies people told about him in 2012 and he barely fought back. People like him are in large part why we have Trump now. meanwhile these same smear peddlers praise him today. No, Mitt is out for Mitt. And to make my statement seem more plausible consider that the man was both gov of MA and is now a senator from Utah and ran for the office in his 70s. While he seems a decent and good man in his personal life, his political life is far less principled.
What self-interest do you think he’s gaining with this move then? I doubt he’ll ever struggle for re-election in Utah, but today probably didn’t do him any favors there
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United States43971 Posts
On February 06 2020 11:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
Is there a particular reason this needlessly complicated system is utilised? I presume it’s a holdout from a totally different era that’s just stuck around?
Isn’t it basically Nirish constituency Single Transferable Vote? You should be familiar with it.
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Ah, so this was the quality control they were talking about.
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On February 06 2020 13:14 Gahlo wrote:Ah, so this was the quality control they were talking about.
Edited the spoiler with additional info cause it's possible that some of these are not actually mistakes, some weird rules about caucuses with 1 delegate apparently.
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On February 06 2020 13:17 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 13:14 Gahlo wrote:Ah, so this was the quality control they were talking about. Edited the spoiler with additional info cause it's possible that some of these are not actually mistakes, some weird rules about caucuses with 1 delegate apparently.
Still makes no sense that Warren is ahead of Sanders in the edited section.
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On February 06 2020 13:14 Gahlo wrote:Ah, so this was the quality control they were talking about.
Bizarre to have the people that spent the last 4 years screaming about election manipulation and Republican hypocrisy suddenly turning a blind eye to it to stop Bernie.
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On February 06 2020 13:29 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 13:14 Gahlo wrote:Ah, so this was the quality control they were talking about. Bizarre to have the people that spent the last 4 years screaming about election manipulation and Republican hypocrisy suddenly turning a blind eye to it to stop Bernie.
"Before it was illegal, not it's what I want."
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Seems like a bit of a strawman
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On February 06 2020 13:46 ChristianS wrote:
Seems like a bit of a strawman
Their literal defense in court last election was that they aren't beholden to following their own rules.
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On February 06 2020 12:38 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 12:12 Introvert wrote:On February 06 2020 11:54 ChristianS wrote:On February 06 2020 11:46 Introvert wrote:On February 06 2020 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Sanders Romney 2020
for the ultimate anime twist romney is an experienced flip-flopper and weather-vane of a politician. he'd at least consider it. Funny, seems like the wind in the Republican caucus was blowing in a pretty strong “find any excuse to acquit” direction, and Romney was the only one who *didn’t* turn to follow it. Who said Republicanism was the wind? Romney is basically the archetype of the Republican conservatives detest, even in 2012. All the outright lies people told about him in 2012 and he barely fought back. People like him are in large part why we have Trump now. meanwhile these same smear peddlers praise him today. No, Mitt is out for Mitt. And to make my statement seem more plausible consider that the man was both gov of MA and is now a senator from Utah and ran for the office in his 70s. While he seems a decent and good man in his personal life, his political life is far less principled. What self-interest do you think he’s gaining with this move then? I doubt he’ll ever struggle for re-election in Utah, but today probably didn’t do him any favors there
he's already got his seat and is safe, he and Trump just have a beef. I'd be more willing to give him some benefit of the doubt if I didnt already know that Mitt is out for himself.
Although we are losing much of what I was saying by just limiting to today's vote.
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On February 06 2020 13:50 Gahlo wrote:Their literal defense in court last election was that they aren't beholden to following their own rules.
I remember. Not following the connection to your argument, though. Care to fill in the dots for me? If you’re saying that legal argument was equivalent to your paraphrase a couple posts above, I don’t think it is.
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On February 06 2020 14:04 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2020 13:50 Gahlo wrote:On February 06 2020 13:46 ChristianS wrote:
Seems like a bit of a strawman Their literal defense in court last election was that they aren't beholden to following their own rules. I remember. Not following the connection to your argument, though. Care to fill in the dots for me? If you’re saying that legal argument was equivalent to your paraphrase a couple posts above, I don’t think it is.
If you can't look at those posts and can't piece it together then I can't help you.
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Still not updated on NY Times (edit: now it is) but I'm gonna post this anyway ^-^
Still no correction on Des Moines 14
This was basically all due to the 3rd satellite caucus and he still has the 1st satellite caucus after that, he's got it.
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EPT
