EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2073
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9005 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On February 03 2020 11:42 KwarK wrote: Obama is a highly educated statesman with the academic and progressional credentials to establish himself as the smartest man in most rooms before he even opens his mouth. Trump can’t work an umbrella and establishes himself as the stupidest man in any room the moment he opens his mouth. There’s no serious comparison to be had between the two. Obama has sweet words for everyone, is a charmer, and a talented politician. Trump talks like he's on the streets of NYC. Don't fall into the trap of judging politicians based on appearances. Look at their policies, and see how similar they are. Easy money fed policies. Push for low interest rates. Large federal deficits. Protectionist economic policies. Economic intervention. Pro involvement in Middle East. etc. On February 03 2020 11:48 JimmiC wrote: Don't forget about the having a ultra rich grifting father and grandfather. Also, it is pretty hilarious to watch two Trump supports make "cases" for the progressives to not support Biden if he happens to be the nomination. I'm sure they have Bernie and his supporters best interests at heart if their past posting is any indication. I'm not a Trump supporter, but you probably already know that. | ||
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Ryzel
United States535 Posts
On February 03 2020 12:18 BerserkSword wrote: Obama has sweet words for everyone, is a charmer, and a talented politician. Trump talks like he's on the streets of NYC. Don't fall into the trap of judging politicians based on appearances. Look at their policies, and see how similar they are. Easy money fed policies. Push for low interest rates. Large federal deficits. Protectionist economic policies. Economic intervention. Pro involvement in Middle East. etc. I'm not a Trump supporter, but you probably already know that. Why do I have a feeling you’re not going to follow your own advice and write-in your preferred candidate (if it’s not Trump or a Dem)? | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On February 03 2020 12:42 Ryzel wrote: Why do I have a feeling you’re not going to follow your own advice and write-in your preferred candidate (if it’s not Trump or a Dem)? I don't know. You tell me. I was originally going to vote for Yang until I learned that he wants to "pass a constitutional amendment that creates a duty on the federal and state governments to be stewards for the environment." That and the fact that he wants to ban assault weapons. I can't support him if those are part of his platform. If Bernie wasnt such a climate nut, and didnt want to ban assault weapons, I'd consider him as well, since I'd rather redistribute wealth to working class than to oligarchs if there is to be any redistribution. But Bernie has gone off the deep end imo and keeps showing that he's willing to fall in line with establishment dems. I'm going to write in Ron Paul unless his son Rand Paul randomly decides to run again. Then I will write in Rand Paul | ||
KwarK
United States43202 Posts
On February 03 2020 12:18 BerserkSword wrote: Obama has sweet words for everyone, is a charmer, and a talented politician. Trump talks like he's on the streets of NYC. Don't fall into the trap of judging politicians based on appearances. Look at their policies, and see how similar they are. Easy money fed policies. Push for low interest rates. Large federal deficits. Protectionist economic policies. Economic intervention. Pro involvement in Middle East. etc. I'm not a Trump supporter, but you probably already know that. It’s not about being a charmer. Obama speaks and eloquently adds something profound to the conversation, Trump speaks and the input of late stage syphilis. Obama speaks following a school shooting about a sickness at the heart of America that causes these tragedies, Trump brags about how he, an obese 70 year old man, would have totally taken the shooter out unarmed if he was there. They’re two very different people. One of them was the editor of the Harvard Law Review, the other calls up magazines pretending to be his own best friend and tells them they should run an article about how many girlfriends he has. Your similarities between them are also largely fabricated. I don’t believe there’s much history of protectionism from Obama, nor anything like the kind of tax cut deficit spending we see from Trump, nor the childish whining and begging on Twitter for interest rate cuts. You’re making some kind of argument here but I don’t think you researched it at all. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On February 03 2020 12:54 KwarK wrote: It’s not about being a charmer. Obama speaks and eloquently adds something profound to the conversation, Trump speaks and the input of late stage syphilis. Obama speaks following a school shooting about a sickness at the heart of America that causes these tragedies, Trump brags about how he, an obese 70 year old man, would have totally taken the shooter out unarmed if he was there. They’re two very different people. One of them was the editor of the Harvard Law Review, the other calls up magazines pretending to be his own best friend and tells them they should run an article about how many girlfriends he has. I never really found anything Obama said to be profound but you're right he is a phenomenal orator. They are two very different people but ultimately all I see, and care about, are the same foundational policies that screw working Americans over. I don't know why I should judge either on them on their speaking skills over their policy. | ||
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KwarK
United States43202 Posts
Also you’re turning this into a question of oratory when the difference is substance. You’re right that Obama, like most people for whom English is a first language, is a better orator than Trump who routinely struggles with words like league, origins, pessimism, and so forth. But that isn’t the difference we’re talking about, it’s that Trump only speaks to talk about how good he is. You seem to be saying that the difference is X, and therefore it follows that Y and Z are the same. The difference is X, but it’s also every other letter. The difference is oratory skill, but it’s also everything else. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On February 03 2020 13:01 KwarK wrote: They also couldn’t be much more different on policy. Trump ran on an explicit campaign promise of reversing as much of the Obama legislative legacy as he could, including the largest and most important legislative achievement, the ACA. Also you’re turning this into a question of oratory when the difference is substance. You’re right that Obama, like most people for whom English is a first language, is a better orator than Trump who routinely struggles with words like league, origins, pessimism, and so forth. But that isn’t the difference we’re talking about, it’s that Trump only speaks to talk about how good he is. You seem to be saying that the difference is X, and therefore it follows that Y and Z are the same. The difference is X, but it’s also every other letter. The difference is oratory skill, but it’s also everything else. I know what Trump ran on. What I said in my post is that he broke a lot of the promises he made during his campaign....and instead became Obama-lite. Trump and Obama are essentially the same thing when it comes to what, in my opinion, are the two most important things, bar none, to address - economic and monetary policy. The Federal Reserve, with its out of control easy money policies, is the single most harmful thing to working Americans imo, and Trump is taking the same steps Obama did, despite, like you said, promising to end it. Trump is slightly better for the economy than Obama with tax cuts and deregulation, but it's barely anything compared to Trump's massive interventionist and protectionist agendas that, again, are reminiscent of the Obama era. Not to mention the fact that he did nothing to work towards fixing the budget deficit like he promised. All in all, the same deal when it comes to by far the most important factors. I can go down the list of policies comparing and contrasting but these are by far the most important imo, so I'll stick with these for now. Obviously they are not exactly the same. Personally, I think Trump is the lesser evil than Obama. Others might think differently. But who cares? The both propagate the crux of the problems we face. Trump has a distasteful way of speaking but I honestly don't care about all of that. Personally, Obama's speeches often disgusted me especially when you compared it to what he was actually doing. But that's beyond the point, at least for me. I just care about policy. Bush, Obama, and Trump all spoke very differently from each other but they are all more or less similar in how they bring down working Americans. I don't know why I should care so much about how they speak. | ||
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KwarK
United States43202 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [That name is confusing though] + ![[image loading]](https://www-si-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/www.si.com/.image/c_fit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1022/MTcwMTkyMjU4OTEyNDk1NDE2/trump-tweet.jpg) | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On February 03 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote: Another fine addition to the Trump presidential library. + Show Spoiler [That name is confusing though] + He's a fucking moron, wait till he finds out Kansas City is actually in Missouri... | ||
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KwarK
United States43202 Posts
On February 03 2020 13:24 BerserkSword wrote: I know what Trump ran on. What I said in my post is that he broke a lot of the promises he made during his campaign....and instead became Obama-lite. Trump and Obama are essentially the same thing when it comes to what, in my opinion, are the two most important things, bar none, to address - economic and monetary policy. The Federal Reserve, with its out of control easy money policies, is the single most harmful thing to working Americans imo, and Trump is taking the same steps Obama did, despite, like you said, promising to end it. Trump is slightly better for the economy than Obama with tax cuts and deregulation, but it's barely anything compared to Trump's massive interventionist and protectionist agendas that, again, are reminiscent of the Obama era. Not to mention the fact that he did nothing to work towards fixing the budget deficit like he promised. All in all, the same deal when it comes to by far the most important factors. I can go down the list of policies comparing and contrasting but these are by far the most important imo, so I'll stick with these for now. Obviously they are not exactly the same. Personally, I think Trump is the lesser evil than Obama. Others might think differently. But who cares? The both propagate the crux of the problems we face. Trump has a distasteful way of speaking but I honestly don't care about all of that. Personally, Obama's speeches often disgusted me especially when you compared it to what he was actually doing. But that's beyond the point, at least for me. I just care about policy. Bush, Obama, and Trump all spoke very differently from each other but they are all more or less similar in how they bring down working Americans. I don't know why I should care so much about how they speak. This is simply a false claim on both counts. Trump has an extremely interventionist and protectionist stance on economic policy, albeit one that he barely understands (with some bizarre claims about trade surpluses being literal shipments of money and a running inability to distinguish the deficit from the debt). Obama is a classic neoliberal who believes that America's wealth and geopolitical standing are built on free trade and the success of American markets, capital and innovation. The two stances could not be further apart. Obama did very little to intervene in the markets and pushed a policy of economic engagement with landmark trade pacts to open new markets and secure American trading interests (such as TPP which Trump dismissed as a boon to China, despite China not being a member and it being created specifically to isolate China in the region). Meanwhile Trump believes that the economy is made up of winners and losers and it is the job of the government to pick those winners. This includes farm subsidies and aid that grossly exceeds the loans made in the wake of the Great Recession. Trump treats the public purse as a slush fund to reward his supporters while threatening to cut off those in states he's currently twitter feuding with. The two could hardly be further apart. On monetary policy Trump again couldn't be much further from Obama. Obama inherited a colossal budget deficit and quickly got it under control with prudent policies like not starting a war with Iran and not engaging in obscene white elephant vanity projects. He was not permitted to raise taxes which limited the degree of fiscal responsibility he could practice, especially given the non discretionary rising tide of Social Security shortfalls which were outside of his control and could only be met with raised taxes. But he was certainly not a fiscally irresponsible president, especially when compared with the disastrous tax cuts and wars of Bush 2. Meanwhile Trump returned to the Republican classic of out of control spending on rewarding his political base with borrowed money coupled with the largest tax cut in modern history for the near exclusive benefit of the monied interests. You keep saying that the difference between them is stylistic but that's simply not true. You don't have to agree with Obama's neoliberalism to identify that it couldn't be further from the patchwork of twitter memes and off the cuff remarks that are stitched into Trump's ragged quilt of an economic policy. | ||
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KwarK
United States43202 Posts
On February 03 2020 13:47 ShoCkeyy wrote: He's a fucking moron, wait till he finds out Kansas City is actually in Missouri... Somebody told him. However his twitter account is part of the official historical record, he deleted it but it's still on the record. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6232 Posts
America is becoming greater every day. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On February 03 2020 13:24 BerserkSword wrote: I know what Trump ran on. What I said in my post is that he broke a lot of the promises he made during his campaign....and instead became Obama-lite. Trump and Obama are essentially the same thing when it comes to what, in my opinion, are the two most important things, bar none, to address - economic and monetary policy. The Federal Reserve, with its out of control easy money policies, is the single most harmful thing to working Americans imo, and Trump is taking the same steps Obama did, despite, like you said, promising to end it. Trump is slightly better for the economy than Obama with tax cuts and deregulation, but it's barely anything compared to Trump's massive interventionist and protectionist agendas that, again, are reminiscent of the Obama era. Not to mention the fact that he did nothing to work towards fixing the budget deficit like he promised. All in all, the same deal when it comes to by far the most important factors. I can go down the list of policies comparing and contrasting but these are by far the most important imo, so I'll stick with these for now. Obviously they are not exactly the same. Personally, I think Trump is the lesser evil than Obama. Others might think differently. But who cares? The both propagate the crux of the problems we face. Trump has a distasteful way of speaking but I honestly don't care about all of that. Personally, Obama's speeches often disgusted me especially when you compared it to what he was actually doing. But that's beyond the point, at least for me. I just care about policy. Bush, Obama, and Trump all spoke very differently from each other but they are all more or less similar in how they bring down working Americans. I don't know why I should care so much about how they speak. What about the pedophile who mysteriously died in prison while being Trump's friend? What about the thousands of lies he pronounces every year? What about his senior advisor and son in law meeting Kremlin's officials? What about legitimating nazis? What is your limit? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23451 Posts
On February 03 2020 07:25 Wombat_NI wrote: If Sanders doesn’t manage it this time round, GH 2024 yo I'v been given worse charges lol. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4355 Posts
On February 03 2020 17:52 nojok wrote: What about the pedophile who mysteriously died in prison while being Trump's friend? What about the thousands of lies he pronounces every year? What about his senior advisor and son in law meeting Kremlin's officials? What about legitimating nazis? What is your limit? Legitimating Nazis? How, what, why? Anyway my opinion of the situation has changed drastically over this month, due to the coronavirus.Iron Ore was down $10 this weekend, we here in Australia and several countries have completely blocked incoming travel for Chinese nationals.This is huge for our tourism, education and property sectors. We're headed for a recession now for sure and the world is as well.Not doomongering here but big economic turmoil is on the way if this virus does not die down soon.Good for Bernie, bad for Trump. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1947 Posts
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