EPTYou must of not read my last line. As a cisgender myself, I wouldn’t mind trans women competing against men or the other way around. It only forces them to compete harder and train better. I would love to see women beat out men in sports.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2055
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
You must of not read my last line. As a cisgender myself, I wouldn’t mind trans women competing against men or the other way around. It only forces them to compete harder and train better. I would love to see women beat out men in sports. | ||
|
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
a very uncharitable assumption i actually dont care at all about real world impact of this issue. that is, i personally dont watch many sports in the first place and have no personal interest myself in womens sport. i just find it a fascinating intellectual problem that concentrates and magnifies a lot of the issues surrounding the ontology of gender | ||
|
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On January 25 2020 03:33 ShoCkeyy wrote: You must of not read my last line. As a cisgender myself, I wouldn’t mind trans women competing against men or the other way around. It only forces them to compete harder and train better. I would love to see women beat out men in sports. what are you even talking about? no one cares about trans men OR trans women OR NBs competing against men for obvious reasons the issue is what is to be done about women’s sport, an inherently exclusionary activity | ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
| ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On January 25 2020 03:30 Nebuchad wrote: I believe that Mohdoo thinks the question of trans women in sports is easy because he is picturing the difference between a man and a woman's body. I believe that the question is not easy because I'm aware that a trans woman's body is different from a man's body. I am trying to pass that awareness unto him. If I manage to do that, the conversation will definitely be clearer. I am confused as to why this annoys you so much. A trans woman can transition at many different stages in life with all sorts of hormone stuff to have wildly different outcomes. There is no standard trans woman. Some people identify as trans without any medical alterations. Some people take hormone suppressors when they are super young. | ||
|
Nouar
France3270 Posts
On January 25 2020 01:44 Doodsmack wrote: They certainly didnt mind having our help when ISIS took over half their country after their military fled in the face of ISIS. You mean, after the US torn the country asunder and destroyed their military ? Were you being serious ? About sports, from what I've seen, depending on the moment of changing genders, the mass/structure/quality of muscles do not disappear/switch to women-type muscles, even when hormones stay under the accepted threshold. This is leading to a few average men having switched, and completely dominating the field, leading to some very pissed (natural) women, shut out of their own sport, unfairly according to them. It is a pretty difficult issue. Either you shut off cis women, or you somehow discriminate against transgendered ones. But nothing is stopping these from taking part in men's sports (and losing...) | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23446 Posts
| ||
|
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
| ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On January 25 2020 04:30 GreenHorizons wrote: For me, trying to situate various conceptions of gender under capitalism is at the root of a lot of this. I don't think that non-trans people/cis-men would care much if sport was just a fun/healthy hobby instead of a multi-billion dollar industry, or several of them compounded on each other. I would. Competitive avenues and clubs are an important part of human betterment. Competitive purity is important, without money. People take pride in competition and it can exist without macho bravado or financial incentives. I think it is a mistake to say competition is only ever important because of money. In my local community, we have half marathons with some very skilled attendants. Look up half marathon placement for men and women and then compare the top 10 women's times to the top 50 men's times. No one is being paid anything and yet they put 10+ hours a week into training. It doesn't need to be important to you for it to be important to someone else. | ||
Falling
Canada11369 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23446 Posts
On January 25 2020 05:02 IgnE wrote: it would be an issue whenever people care about who wins and who loses. but the money, direct and indirect, that comes from winning sports competitions certainly raises the stakes Yes, it would still be an issue as most things would be with or without capitalism. The common thread in my arguments is how/why capitalism makes it worse. | ||
|
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On January 25 2020 04:17 Nouar wrote: You mean, after the US torn the country asunder and destroyed their military ? Were you being serious ? About sports, from what I've seen, depending on the moment of changing genders, the mass/structure/quality of muscles do not disappear/switch to women-type muscles, even when hormones stay under the accepted threshold. This is leading to a few average men having switched, and completely dominating the field, leading to some very pissed (natural) women, shut out of their own sport, unfairly according to them. It is a pretty difficult issue. Either you shut off cis women, or you somehow discriminate against transgendered ones. But nothing is stopping these from taking part in men's sports (and losing...) Certainly we created the conditions for ISIS, but with the situation as it is now, Iraq shouldn't have much confidence that it can defend itself without our help. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25966 Posts
On January 25 2020 04:00 Mohdoo wrote: A trans woman can transition at many different stages in life with all sorts of hormone stuff to have wildly different outcomes. There is no standard trans woman. Some people identify as trans without any medical alterations. Some people take hormone suppressors when they are super young. Indeed. It’s a tricky issue really not helped by ridiculously hysterical discourse around it. On one hand the concern trolling (usually) of right wing men for the integrity of woman’s sport, which they probably only ever consume to be lecherous about Maria Sharapova, on the other hand there’s the ‘women are women’ crowd who even if they are well-meaning shut out all attempts at nuanced discussion. Then you have an even more complex case like Caster Semenya who is biologically intersex, which is a separate issue from trans women but is often dragged in. Not sure where I stand on most facets of it other than trans women who haven’t transitioned in any physical sense competing against women in certain activities would be mental. The physical disparities between even a slob like me and most women I’ve ever encountered are pretty stark. Then you have physical sports where women can compete pretty evenly with men full stop, such as real ultra marathons and endurance activities. As far as I’m aware women’s lack of raw power is compensated for by generally being lighter, even their bones and over very long distances this adds up. Then you have activities that have separate competition for no particular reason other than most games have gender segmented competition. It’s really pretty arbitrary across the board as to how these things and are categorised. Sadly the podcast is paywalled but I listened to a really interesting 2 hours on this, would link it if I could as I’d recommend highly. Granted it muddies the waters somewhat, I mean fundamentally Usain Bolt is just a genetic freak that nobody can beat, Caster Semenya is in the same boat but sadly for her it’s a difficult to categorise condition and she’s suffered for something beyond her control. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25966 Posts
On January 25 2020 08:14 Doodsmack wrote: Certainly we created the conditions for ISIS, but with the situation as it is now, Iraq shouldn't have much confidence that it can defend itself without our help. Ah so the US is just Crassus’ fire brigade now? | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11616 Posts
I bet that Iran would love to help Iraq defend itself. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21944 Posts
On January 25 2020 08:37 Simberto wrote: Iran, Russia. All of them look like more attractive options when America is bombing envoys on your soil.It's not as if there were no others whom they could ask. I bet that Iran would love to help Iraq defend itself. And after Trumps bumbling in Syria with the Kurds, Iraq can't even rely on the US to defend them should something arise in the first place. | ||
|
nojok
France15845 Posts
| ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25966 Posts
On January 25 2020 09:54 nojok wrote: Am I the only one who sees sex change as an extreme form of consumerism? It's still a plastic surgery with an hormonal cocktail, they still are what they were born. It's not only that obviously. I'm still surprised this point was not brought up. Most trans people I know and I assume many in general don’t pass muster as a cis woman. They feel they’re women, or men and so act accordingly. There’s basically no gain to them whatsoever. I have a good friend who is trans, the mother of their child denied access when they started transitioning. They’re sacrificing a lot and gaining fuck all, so what are they consuming here exactly? There are people who are genuinely just confused and maybe it’s not the best option for them, definitely. For example people with Aspergers often present as gender dysphoric. Not because they actually are but that the ‘grey areas’ of gender characteristics can be difficult for them to process in adolescence. | ||
|
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
| ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25966 Posts
On January 25 2020 10:07 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: How do you like your new military branch logo guys. It's totally not a complete ripoff from the Star Trek logo. Very cool and very legal. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220821545746141187 As a big fan of Star Trek, and that it represents basically the anthesis of Trump this genuinely makes me borderline vomit. I was content with someone not shooting him until now but come on someone take that Iranian bounty money already! User was temp banned for this post. | ||
| ||
