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On December 16 2019 03:25 Yurie wrote:
Why doesn't the US set up a refugee camp in southern Mexico near the border? To handle the people escaping South America long before they hit the US borders?
Is this a serious question?
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On December 15 2019 16:50 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? Theses seem like rational positions if you go one step deeper into them. The border wall isn't possible to build as described. Would cost massive amounts to start building and then fail on. Which you then either have to remove or maintain forever. If you want Democrat representatives to support it then present something that can be built, has a good (or at least decent) business and moral case. Money is not the sole thing that happens when you move money into an area. You also target how it will be used. As Trump runs border security it is better to remove it fully than keep it running. Adding on money to it would likely result in concentration camps in the long run since that is the path he wants to take it. If that money was targetted at making the border judicial system run well I think he would get a lot of his money. Make handling cases of people caught a priority. Either giving them access into the US or deporting them quickly. If that is the first priority he is likely to get more money to catch people. As is, catching more people is a humanitarian crisis instead.
Of course the wall is possible to build as described lol. The amount of money it would cost to build and maintain such a wall is a drop in the bucket compared to all the other bullshit we spend money on.
There is a good case to build the wall. There is noting immoral about the wall when it protects Americans.
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
On December 15 2019 22:29 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. So if the Obama administration tried to blackmail Russia to investigate Trump Jr. in a way that caused outrage among top diplomats and staffers alike you would be ok with it? I don't even think the Democrats really wanted this but the proof and severity of the case left them no choice. You just can't tailor foreign policy to fit your personal interest as president. Not to mention the actual bullshit the Republicans tried to impeach Clinton for. The hypocrisy is thick!
First of all, let's not pretend that there is a strong case against Trump. This is evident in the weak ass articles of impeachment. It's comical how Democrats have hopped from one accusation to another - it went from quid pro quo, to bribery, then extortion........only for them to settle on "abuse of power" which is just some general term aka their attempt at once again throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Second of all, youre missing my bigger point - Every president has acted unconstitutionally in far more significant ways than this. Where was Pelosi when George "weapons of mass destruction" Bush was in power abusing power left and right? Where was the impeachment against Barrack "Assad Must Go" Obama and his several abuses of power?
Instead, we get this nonsense about Trump withholding lethal aid to a foreign country, which is a slap in the face to the Military industrial complex, in an act that probably does help him politically at home, but is not only not the major driver of the act, but also has been done by every single president in modern history as well.
The Democrats definitely wanted this. They have been screeching about impeachment since 2016. What Trump did is not severe at ALL considering what has been done by presidents, including trump himself, in the past. I'm honestly surprised by Pelosi. She is not an incompetent politician by any means. I'm guessing this is either a hail mary or she has been fed faulty information.
There was wide agreement that Bill violated a specific criminal statue at least. Dems have nothing on Trump
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On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't.
And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you).
The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions.
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On December 16 2019 03:53 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? When democratic congresswoman representing El Paso writes border security in the form of physical barriers off as an "obsession" For all intents and purposes, obstructing increased border security like this is supporting criminal elements entering the country. If youre keeping the status quo and blocking drastic efforts to reduce criminal influx, then you are supporting their ease of entry. Democrats are acting in such a pitiful manner that it's absurd when taken at face value. From the moment Trump was elected it was nothing but pathetic attempts at trying tear him down. This impeachment farce to me looks like the culmination of Democrat butthurt. I can't believe that this is all happening tbh. I honestly dont know what the Democratic brass are doing. What is their end game here? If they want to impeach him for something, at least accuse him for one of his actual unconstitutional abuses of power, like instance of military force in Syria (for which I believe he got bipartisan praise iirc). But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. Not surprising to be honest, since withholding aid = less $$$ for the military industrial complex and I guess impeachment is only saved for an act against the MI complex, rather than presidents like Bush and Obama who dwarfed trump in terms of abuse of power albeit to the benefit of the special interests. Trump has abused his power since day one of entering office. Have you paid literally no attention during his Presidency? One of his number one priorities has been siphoning money out of the government into his personal funds by using his golf resorts as often as possible. Just admit you don't give a shit what Trump does because he's your guy and move on.
Maybe try to read my post again. Maybe slower this time.
I said that he has abused power and that they should impeach him for it. You just listed a possible crime he has committed and yet they are impeaching him over nonsense. You prove my point.
Just admit that you dont give a shit what the Democrats do because they are your guys and move on.
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On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions.
A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through.
I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border
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On December 16 2019 05:02 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 03:53 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? When democratic congresswoman representing El Paso writes border security in the form of physical barriers off as an "obsession" For all intents and purposes, obstructing increased border security like this is supporting criminal elements entering the country. If youre keeping the status quo and blocking drastic efforts to reduce criminal influx, then you are supporting their ease of entry. Democrats are acting in such a pitiful manner that it's absurd when taken at face value. From the moment Trump was elected it was nothing but pathetic attempts at trying tear him down. This impeachment farce to me looks like the culmination of Democrat butthurt. I can't believe that this is all happening tbh. I honestly dont know what the Democratic brass are doing. What is their end game here? If they want to impeach him for something, at least accuse him for one of his actual unconstitutional abuses of power, like instance of military force in Syria (for which I believe he got bipartisan praise iirc). But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. Not surprising to be honest, since withholding aid = less $$$ for the military industrial complex and I guess impeachment is only saved for an act against the MI complex, rather than presidents like Bush and Obama who dwarfed trump in terms of abuse of power albeit to the benefit of the special interests. Trump has abused his power since day one of entering office. Have you paid literally no attention during his Presidency? One of his number one priorities has been siphoning money out of the government into his personal funds by using his golf resorts as often as possible. Just admit you don't give a shit what Trump does because he's your guy and move on. Maybe try to read my post again. Maybe slower this time. I said that he has abused power and that they should impeach him for it. You just listed a possible crime he has committed and yet they are impeaching him over nonsense. You prove my point. Just admit that you dont give a shit what the Democrats do because they are your guys and move on.
Your post also said that they were frothing at the mouth to find something to impeach him on, which makes it weird that they didn't go for the countless other opportunities that they had before this one (which, btw, is just as valid as any of the others).
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On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border
Criminal elements don't have to waltz, they have other forms of movement.
You're still going to give billions to Israel, this is on top.
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United States42973 Posts
On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border
The wall wouldn’t work. The border is way, way too long and it could only be manned by building a shitton of new roads and towns along the length of the border which would create the infrastructure people crossing the border would need. Right now most of the border is not practical to cross because it’s desert, the wall would actually make that worse.
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On December 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:02 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 03:53 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? When democratic congresswoman representing El Paso writes border security in the form of physical barriers off as an "obsession" For all intents and purposes, obstructing increased border security like this is supporting criminal elements entering the country. If youre keeping the status quo and blocking drastic efforts to reduce criminal influx, then you are supporting their ease of entry. Democrats are acting in such a pitiful manner that it's absurd when taken at face value. From the moment Trump was elected it was nothing but pathetic attempts at trying tear him down. This impeachment farce to me looks like the culmination of Democrat butthurt. I can't believe that this is all happening tbh. I honestly dont know what the Democratic brass are doing. What is their end game here? If they want to impeach him for something, at least accuse him for one of his actual unconstitutional abuses of power, like instance of military force in Syria (for which I believe he got bipartisan praise iirc). But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. Not surprising to be honest, since withholding aid = less $$$ for the military industrial complex and I guess impeachment is only saved for an act against the MI complex, rather than presidents like Bush and Obama who dwarfed trump in terms of abuse of power albeit to the benefit of the special interests. Trump has abused his power since day one of entering office. Have you paid literally no attention during his Presidency? One of his number one priorities has been siphoning money out of the government into his personal funds by using his golf resorts as often as possible. Just admit you don't give a shit what Trump does because he's your guy and move on. Maybe try to read my post again. Maybe slower this time. I said that he has abused power and that they should impeach him for it. You just listed a possible crime he has committed and yet they are impeaching him over nonsense. You prove my point. Just admit that you dont give a shit what the Democrats do because they are your guys and move on. Your post also said that they were frothing at the mouth to find something to impeach him on, which makes it weird that they didn't go for the countless other opportunities that they had before this one (which, btw, is just as valid as any of the others).
Which is why I said I don't know what their end game is. Or perhaps they won't impeach him for an action that benefits special interests? Only for actions that harm special interests (like withholding military aid is bad for military industrial interests)
This whole thing crumbled hard for democrats, at face value. Quid Pro Quo --> bribery and extortion --> "abuse of power"
This thing is going to go out with a whimper, and will probably cost dems seats in congress, perhaps the 2020 election
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On December 16 2019 05:09 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border Criminal elements don't have to waltz, they have other forms of movement. You're still going to give billions to Israel, this is on top.
It still makes it harder for these elements to get in.
On December 16 2019 05:10 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border The wall wouldn’t work. The border is way, way too long and it could only be manned by building a shitton of new roads and towns along the length of the border which would create the infrastructure people crossing the border would need. Right now most of the border is not practical to cross because it’s desert, the wall would actually make that worse.
Those parts of the border are not practical to cross for civilians looking for refuge in the U.S.
It's still used by criminals.
The wall wouldnt completely stop the influx of criminals, but it would help a lot
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On December 16 2019 05:12 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:02 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 03:53 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? When democratic congresswoman representing El Paso writes border security in the form of physical barriers off as an "obsession" For all intents and purposes, obstructing increased border security like this is supporting criminal elements entering the country. If youre keeping the status quo and blocking drastic efforts to reduce criminal influx, then you are supporting their ease of entry. Democrats are acting in such a pitiful manner that it's absurd when taken at face value. From the moment Trump was elected it was nothing but pathetic attempts at trying tear him down. This impeachment farce to me looks like the culmination of Democrat butthurt. I can't believe that this is all happening tbh. I honestly dont know what the Democratic brass are doing. What is their end game here? If they want to impeach him for something, at least accuse him for one of his actual unconstitutional abuses of power, like instance of military force in Syria (for which I believe he got bipartisan praise iirc). But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. Not surprising to be honest, since withholding aid = less $$$ for the military industrial complex and I guess impeachment is only saved for an act against the MI complex, rather than presidents like Bush and Obama who dwarfed trump in terms of abuse of power albeit to the benefit of the special interests. Trump has abused his power since day one of entering office. Have you paid literally no attention during his Presidency? One of his number one priorities has been siphoning money out of the government into his personal funds by using his golf resorts as often as possible. Just admit you don't give a shit what Trump does because he's your guy and move on. Maybe try to read my post again. Maybe slower this time. I said that he has abused power and that they should impeach him for it. You just listed a possible crime he has committed and yet they are impeaching him over nonsense. You prove my point. Just admit that you dont give a shit what the Democrats do because they are your guys and move on. Your post also said that they were frothing at the mouth to find something to impeach him on, which makes it weird that they didn't go for the countless other opportunities that they had before this one (which, btw, is just as valid as any of the others). Which is why I said I don't know what their end game is. Or perhaps they won't impeach him for an action that benefits special interests? Only for actions that harm special interests (like withholding military aid is bad for military industrial interests) This whole thing crumbled hard for democrats, at face value. Quid Pro Quo --> bribery and extortion --> "abuse of power" This thing is going to go out with a whimper, and will probably cost dems seats in congress, perhaps the 2020 election
Well I do know what their end game is. Their end game was to pretend to oppose Trump but do absolutely nothing, because having such an obvious and grotesque enemy drives engagement for them. People to their left kept pushing them to do their job but they refused, until finally Trump attacked one of them, Biden, instead of regular people, and that's when they finally, reluctantly, jumped into action.
See your issue is that you need them to be strong and uncompromising in order to justify your narrative of US politics, and they are undeniably, and very clearly, weak and conciliatory towards the right, as you point to yourself in your analysis of the situation.
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United States42973 Posts
On December 16 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:09 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border Criminal elements don't have to waltz, they have other forms of movement. You're still going to give billions to Israel, this is on top. It still makes it harder for these elements to get in. Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:10 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border The wall wouldn’t work. The border is way, way too long and it could only be manned by building a shitton of new roads and towns along the length of the border which would create the infrastructure people crossing the border would need. Right now most of the border is not practical to cross because it’s desert, the wall would actually make that worse. Those parts of the border are not practical to cross for civilians looking for refuge in the U.S. It's still used by criminals. The wall wouldnt completely stop the influx of criminals, but it would help a lot
Building the criminals roads would help a lot?
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On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border
Why stop at building a wall at the mexcio boarder, the Canadian boarder is larger and less manned. Also at least to our own national security concerns Canada has produced more terrorists crossing the boarder into the US than Mexico, especially when you're talking Islamic terrorists as mexcio isn't really filled with Muslims.
The point is that the motivation of the wall is based on a false premise. It's not that there isn't dangers or what have you, it's the the claimed dangers dont match reality as they've been deeply exaggerated making the motivation for the wall questionable. Especially in context to Canada or our other ports of entry.
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On December 16 2019 05:21 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:12 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:02 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 03:53 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? When democratic congresswoman representing El Paso writes border security in the form of physical barriers off as an "obsession" For all intents and purposes, obstructing increased border security like this is supporting criminal elements entering the country. If youre keeping the status quo and blocking drastic efforts to reduce criminal influx, then you are supporting their ease of entry. Democrats are acting in such a pitiful manner that it's absurd when taken at face value. From the moment Trump was elected it was nothing but pathetic attempts at trying tear him down. This impeachment farce to me looks like the culmination of Democrat butthurt. I can't believe that this is all happening tbh. I honestly dont know what the Democratic brass are doing. What is their end game here? If they want to impeach him for something, at least accuse him for one of his actual unconstitutional abuses of power, like instance of military force in Syria (for which I believe he got bipartisan praise iirc). But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. Not surprising to be honest, since withholding aid = less $$$ for the military industrial complex and I guess impeachment is only saved for an act against the MI complex, rather than presidents like Bush and Obama who dwarfed trump in terms of abuse of power albeit to the benefit of the special interests. Trump has abused his power since day one of entering office. Have you paid literally no attention during his Presidency? One of his number one priorities has been siphoning money out of the government into his personal funds by using his golf resorts as often as possible. Just admit you don't give a shit what Trump does because he's your guy and move on. Maybe try to read my post again. Maybe slower this time. I said that he has abused power and that they should impeach him for it. You just listed a possible crime he has committed and yet they are impeaching him over nonsense. You prove my point. Just admit that you dont give a shit what the Democrats do because they are your guys and move on. Your post also said that they were frothing at the mouth to find something to impeach him on, which makes it weird that they didn't go for the countless other opportunities that they had before this one (which, btw, is just as valid as any of the others). Which is why I said I don't know what their end game is. Or perhaps they won't impeach him for an action that benefits special interests? Only for actions that harm special interests (like withholding military aid is bad for military industrial interests) This whole thing crumbled hard for democrats, at face value. Quid Pro Quo --> bribery and extortion --> "abuse of power" This thing is going to go out with a whimper, and will probably cost dems seats in congress, perhaps the 2020 election Well I do know what their end game is. Their end game was to pretend to oppose Trump but do absolutely nothing, because having such an obvious and grotesque enemy drives engagement for them. People to their left kept pushing them to do their job but they refused, until finally Trump attacked one of them, Biden, instead of regular people, and that's when they finally, reluctantly, jumped into action. See your issue is that you need them to be strong and uncompromising in order to justify your narrative of US politics, and they are undeniably, and very clearly, weak and conciliatory towards the right, as you point to yourself in your analysis of the situation.
I find it hard to believe that they would risk so much for so little. Pretending to oppose Trump while doing nothing alienates and discourages their base, strengthens Trump's base, makes them look incompetent and/or corrupt, and ultimately could cost elections. I think it would go beyond that
If they are defending something here, I find the more compelling case to be that they are primarily protecting special interests rather than biden. Trump is touching the military industry's precious weapons market, which is why they took such drastic actions for something relatively vanilla.
They laud Trump for unconstitutional airstrikes in syria in 2017 i believe it was, and then go full blown impeachment for withholding military aid to Ukraine - praise him for promoting military business and impeach him for curtailing military business.
Regardless of what the end game is, the democrats set up a circus imo and it will be seriously impressed if it doesnt blow up in their faces.
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On December 16 2019 05:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:09 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border Criminal elements don't have to waltz, they have other forms of movement. You're still going to give billions to Israel, this is on top. It still makes it harder for these elements to get in. On December 16 2019 05:10 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border The wall wouldn’t work. The border is way, way too long and it could only be manned by building a shitton of new roads and towns along the length of the border which would create the infrastructure people crossing the border would need. Right now most of the border is not practical to cross because it’s desert, the wall would actually make that worse. Those parts of the border are not practical to cross for civilians looking for refuge in the U.S. It's still used by criminals. The wall wouldnt completely stop the influx of criminals, but it would help a lot Building the criminals roads would help a lot?
A wall + roads on the US side will not make things easier for criminals.
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On December 16 2019 05:46 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border Why stop at building a wall at the mexcio boarder, the Canadian boarder is larger and less manned. Also at least to our own national security concerns Canada has produced more terrorists crossing the boarder into the US than Mexico, especially when you're talking Islamic terrorists as mexcio isn't really filled with Muslims. The point is that the motivation of the wall is based on a false premise. It's not that there isn't dangers or what have you, it's the the claimed dangers dont match reality as they've been deeply exaggerated making the motivation for the wall questionable. Especially in context to Canada or our other ports of entry.
Please tell me youre joking.
Canada is not run by mafias that have access to massive amounts of drugs and that are armed to the teeth.
America has a drug and gang violence problem. While obviously not all of it is because of the mexican border, a lot of it is.
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On December 16 2019 05:53 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:21 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:12 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:02 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 03:53 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2019 16:22 BerserkSword wrote:On December 15 2019 13:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A lot of people think democrats want criminals entering the country. Guys like redlight get convinced by it. What do you expect when Democrats fight tooth and nail to deny Trump building his wall simply because they don't want Trump to gain any political points or moral victories? When democrats brag about spending 2 billion dollars on border security over the course of Obama's 8 years, while denouncing Trump who wants to pour 10+ billion into border security? When democratic congresswoman representing El Paso writes border security in the form of physical barriers off as an "obsession" For all intents and purposes, obstructing increased border security like this is supporting criminal elements entering the country. If youre keeping the status quo and blocking drastic efforts to reduce criminal influx, then you are supporting their ease of entry. Democrats are acting in such a pitiful manner that it's absurd when taken at face value. From the moment Trump was elected it was nothing but pathetic attempts at trying tear him down. This impeachment farce to me looks like the culmination of Democrat butthurt. I can't believe that this is all happening tbh. I honestly dont know what the Democratic brass are doing. What is their end game here? If they want to impeach him for something, at least accuse him for one of his actual unconstitutional abuses of power, like instance of military force in Syria (for which I believe he got bipartisan praise iirc). But no - they choose some nonsense about witholding military aid to Ukraine lol. Not surprising to be honest, since withholding aid = less $$$ for the military industrial complex and I guess impeachment is only saved for an act against the MI complex, rather than presidents like Bush and Obama who dwarfed trump in terms of abuse of power albeit to the benefit of the special interests. Trump has abused his power since day one of entering office. Have you paid literally no attention during his Presidency? One of his number one priorities has been siphoning money out of the government into his personal funds by using his golf resorts as often as possible. Just admit you don't give a shit what Trump does because he's your guy and move on. Maybe try to read my post again. Maybe slower this time. I said that he has abused power and that they should impeach him for it. You just listed a possible crime he has committed and yet they are impeaching him over nonsense. You prove my point. Just admit that you dont give a shit what the Democrats do because they are your guys and move on. Your post also said that they were frothing at the mouth to find something to impeach him on, which makes it weird that they didn't go for the countless other opportunities that they had before this one (which, btw, is just as valid as any of the others). Which is why I said I don't know what their end game is. Or perhaps they won't impeach him for an action that benefits special interests? Only for actions that harm special interests (like withholding military aid is bad for military industrial interests) This whole thing crumbled hard for democrats, at face value. Quid Pro Quo --> bribery and extortion --> "abuse of power" This thing is going to go out with a whimper, and will probably cost dems seats in congress, perhaps the 2020 election Well I do know what their end game is. Their end game was to pretend to oppose Trump but do absolutely nothing, because having such an obvious and grotesque enemy drives engagement for them. People to their left kept pushing them to do their job but they refused, until finally Trump attacked one of them, Biden, instead of regular people, and that's when they finally, reluctantly, jumped into action. See your issue is that you need them to be strong and uncompromising in order to justify your narrative of US politics, and they are undeniably, and very clearly, weak and conciliatory towards the right, as you point to yourself in your analysis of the situation. I find it hard to believe that they would risk so much for so little. Pretending to oppose Trump while doing nothing alienates and discourages their base, strengthens Trump's base, makes them look incompetent and/or corrupt, and ultimately could cost elections. I think it would go beyond that If they are defending something here, I find the more compelling case to be that they are primarily protecting special interests rather than biden. Trump is touching the military industry's precious weapons market, which is why they took such drastic actions for something relatively vanilla. They laud Trump for unconstitutional airstrikes in syria in 2017 i believe it was, and then go full blown impeachment for withholding military aid to Ukraine - praise him for promoting military business and impeach him for curtailing military business. Regardless of what the end game is, the democrats set up a circus imo and it will be seriously impressed if it doesnt blow up in their faces.
Most voters aren't going to notice, it's a calculation that you can make. Besides their donors also put pressure on them to favor certain pro-oligarchy positions, as does their underlying ideology (liberalism, not leftism).
It's never a massive mistake to bet on voters not noticing stuff. As an example, you seem to very much dislike the military industrial complex, and you keep associating that with democrats alone for no good reason.
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United States42973 Posts
On December 16 2019 05:55 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 05:43 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:09 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border Criminal elements don't have to waltz, they have other forms of movement. You're still going to give billions to Israel, this is on top. It still makes it harder for these elements to get in. On December 16 2019 05:10 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2019 05:06 BerserkSword wrote:On December 16 2019 05:00 Nebuchad wrote:On December 16 2019 04:53 BerserkSword wrote:
I, and a significant portion of americans (perhaps majority) dont want a "border judicial system" over a protected border. We want to put an end to the easy access the criminal elements of Mexico currently have into the country.
It won't. And they know it won't (maybe you do too, I don't know you). The wall is good for the far right because 1) it doesn't eliminate the threat, so you still have to vote for them because there is still a threat, and 2) it's a concrete thing that they can point to and pretend is an achievement, just in case someone were to look at their record and see that they have done basically nothing apart from give tax cuts to the rich and fuck over the working class in all of their decisions. A wall prevents criminal elements from waltzing through. I'd rather spend billions on a wall at the mexican border than giving israel billions per year so they can build a wall (which works btw) at their border The wall wouldn’t work. The border is way, way too long and it could only be manned by building a shitton of new roads and towns along the length of the border which would create the infrastructure people crossing the border would need. Right now most of the border is not practical to cross because it’s desert, the wall would actually make that worse. Those parts of the border are not practical to cross for civilians looking for refuge in the U.S. It's still used by criminals. The wall wouldnt completely stop the influx of criminals, but it would help a lot Building the criminals roads would help a lot? A wall + roads on the US side will not make things easier for criminals.
Sure it would. There’s no plan to man the entire wall. It would create a thousand miles more of viable crossing points.
A desert with no wall is a far better barrier than a wall with roads behind it.
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As much as i'm for the legalization of majiruana, cocain and the likes should never be allowed. But you shouldn't criminalize the users.
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EPT
