Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
Not sure why you’re quoting me but Trump claimed he’d already destroyed Turkey once already so it’s not clear what steel tariffs are meant to do. I’m also unfamiliar with the globally dominant Turkish steel industry that is dependent upon exports to the United States.
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
Not sure why you’re quoting me but Trump claimed he’d already destroyed Turkey once already so it’s not clear what steel tariffs are meant to do. I’m also unfamiliar with the globally dominant Turkish steel industry that is dependent upon exports to the United States.
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
Not sure why you’re quoting me but Trump claimed he’d already destroyed Turkey once already so it’s not clear what steel tariffs are meant to do. I’m also unfamiliar with the globally dominant Turkish steel industry that is dependent upon exports to the United States.
My first thought was "lol Turkey makes steel?"
Even if Turkey makes lots of steel I would be surprised if it was making it for the American market.
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
I love how countries are getting teared apart, a people's dream being crushed, we get reports of turkish soldiers decapitating kurds, the us has committed a betrayal of a crucial ally that will be remembered for decades, and the region is being further wrecked and destabilized, but the entire right wing analysis of this tragedy is seen through the terrifying prospect that some of those brown people might want to migrate to us.
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
I love how countries are getting teared apart, a people's dream being crushed, we get reports of turkish soldiers decapitating kurds, the us has committed a betrayal of a crucial ally that will be remembered for decades, and the region is being further wrecked and destabilized, but the entire right wing analysis of this tragedy is seen through the terrifying prospect that some of those brown people might want to migrate to us.
The self-centredness of the right will never cease to shock me. Thousands of people's lives are in shambles, and a bunch of people are dying, and all the right cares about is refugees from a war they started maybe migrating to their areas. That region is going to be a mess for years now because of Trump's idiocy, and his base just ignores this. How do you argue with people this willfully ignorant?
On October 15 2019 17:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On October 15 2019 13:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
I love how countries are getting teared apart, a people's dream being crushed, we get reports of turkish soldiers decapitating kurds, the us has committed a betrayal of a crucial ally that will be remembered for decades, and the region is being further wrecked and destabilized, but the entire right wing analysis of this tragedy is seen through the terrifying prospect that some of those brown people might want to migrate to us.
The self-centredness of the right will never cease to shock me. Thousands of people's lives are in shambles, and a bunch of people are dying, and all the right cares about is refugees from a war they started maybe migrating to their areas. That region is going to be a mess for years now because of Trump's idiocy, and his base just ignores this. How do you argue with people this willfully ignorant?
"But if a lion is right to lack sympathy for a gazelle, why should I be shamed for lacking sympathy for the poor?" - things people actually believe
On October 15 2019 17:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On October 15 2019 13:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
I love how countries are getting teared apart, a people's dream being crushed, we get reports of turkish soldiers decapitating kurds, the us has committed a betrayal of a crucial ally that will be remembered for decades, and the region is being further wrecked and destabilized, but the entire right wing analysis of this tragedy is seen through the terrifying prospect that some of those brown people might want to migrate to us.
The self-centredness of the right will never cease to shock me. Thousands of people's lives are in shambles, and a bunch of people are dying, and all the right cares about is refugees from a war they started maybe migrating to their areas. That region is going to be a mess for years now because of Trump's idiocy, and his base just ignores this. How do you argue with people this willfully ignorant?
They don't give a shit about the people in there, their troops get to be where profits the "country", they won't receive any of those refugees, and in return europe will turn further to the right thanks to reactionaries being fed more ammunition to their rhetoric.
On October 15 2019 17:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On October 15 2019 13:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
I love how countries are getting teared apart, a people's dream being crushed, we get reports of turkish soldiers decapitating kurds, the us has committed a betrayal of a crucial ally that will be remembered for decades, and the region is being further wrecked and destabilized, but the entire right wing analysis of this tragedy is seen through the terrifying prospect that some of those brown people might want to migrate to us.
The self-centredness of the right will never cease to shock me. Thousands of people's lives are in shambles, and a bunch of people are dying, and all the right cares about is refugees from a war they started maybe migrating to their areas. That region is going to be a mess for years now because of Trump's idiocy, and his base just ignores this. How do you argue with people this willfully ignorant?
"But if a lion is right to lack sympathy for a gazelle, why should I be shamed for lacking sympathy for the poor?" - things people actually believe
I think a lot of right-wing beliefs are genuinely couched in the idea of Darwinism, social and otherwise. The fittest survive, and so it's only natural that the unfit die. The world is a zero-sum game. Nevermind that that's not how it actually works in civilized society, and also nevermind that this is also the same neck of the political woods that harbors Creationism. That's why a lot of things that are actually horrible, like self-defense of one's home still resulting in 3 deaths, seem okay in their eyes.
On October 15 2019 17:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On October 15 2019 13:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On October 10 2019 07:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever the case the EU should take Trumps threat to economically destroy Turkey seriously. Turkey has 3 million refugees. Any destabilisation of the Turkish economy will likely lead to a worse refugee flood into Europe than 2015.
The same threat in which Trump said he’d already destroyed Turkey economically?
Trump just doubled tariffs on Turkish Steel and aluminium imports.Additionally the Lira dropped 20 percent over the past 24 hours.
Erdogan himself claimed he would release the 3.6 million refugees if he did not get his safe zone(I posted the link a few days back - Guardian last month) He is now stating calling the offensive an invasion will also lead to him releasing the migrants.Seems like whatever they do it's just a matter of time before the next migrant crisis starts.
"Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you," he said.
I love how countries are getting teared apart, a people's dream being crushed, we get reports of turkish soldiers decapitating kurds, the us has committed a betrayal of a crucial ally that will be remembered for decades, and the region is being further wrecked and destabilized, but the entire right wing analysis of this tragedy is seen through the terrifying prospect that some of those brown people might want to migrate to us.
The self-centredness of the right will never cease to shock me. Thousands of people's lives are in shambles, and a bunch of people are dying, and all the right cares about is refugees from a war they started maybe migrating to their areas. That region is going to be a mess for years now because of Trump's idiocy, and his base just ignores this. How do you argue with people this willfully ignorant?
"But if a lion is right to lack sympathy for a gazelle, why should I be shamed for lacking sympathy for the poor?" - things people actually believe
I think a lot of right-wing beliefs are genuinely couched in the idea of Darwinism, social and otherwise. The fittest survive, and so it's only natural that the unfit die. The world is a zero-sum game. Nevermind that that's not how it actually works in civilized society, and also nevermind that this is also the same neck of the political woods that harbors Creationism. That's why a lot of things that are actually horrible, like self-defense of one's home still resulting in 3 deaths, seem okay in their eyes.
I enjoy the fact that faith-based ethical philosophy typically involves a lot of Darwinism. They point out the value in allowing for harsh treatment of undesirable traits of a population, so that those traits leave the population, yet can't imagine the same dynamics are responsible for evolution.
It’s probably easier to emotionally process the world through that crude social Darwinist lens than consider the alternative, namely that you sit atop an artificial world order and have a quality of life beyond the reach of huge swathes of the world’s population, through no real personal virtues of your own.
With Sanders health problems and Biden's continuous gaffes, is it safe to say that Warren is now the front runner for the nomination? She has been gaining the aggregate polls while joe's seems to be on the same level as weeks ago. CNN is starting to be critical of Joe which could result in soft Biden supporters losing initiative to align themselves with his campaign.
Harris and Pete seem to not really being gaining any traction, I would really like to see Pete have a great debate and fight to be one of the top 3 candidates with Biden and Warren but think Sanders will hold on to the 3rd slot.
If media reporting is to be believed, there is a damning picture emerging of official pressure put on Ukraine by trump in an attempt to get tthem to investigate hunter biden. It was carried out by trump, sondland (a diplomat willing to participate, unlike the ukraine ambassador who got canned), Giuliani, Mulvaney, and who knows who else. Levers of US power were used, probably including the withholding of military aid, to induce or force an investigation of trumps political rival. To accomplish this, giuliani was used as someone independent of normal diplomatic channels (and ofc he just happened to be profiting from it all along with corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs). John bolton allegedly referred to the deal being orchestrated by Mulvaney and guiliani as a "drug deal." The analogy there is an illicit transaction - a quid pro quo.
Have a feeling this could all move pretty quickly.
I don’t think even Trump’s most ardent supporters think that it doesn’t sound exactly like the kind of thing he would do. Especially when he’s actively tweeting that he’s entitled to do it and that he’d like to do it more, with China among others. His public position isn’t that he wouldn’t do it, it’s that he would do it, should do it, is entitled to do it, and would like to do more of it. That’s his chosen defence strategy so his support will need to rally around “it’s not a big deal”.
On October 16 2019 06:58 Sermokala wrote: The defense peddled around the right is that the whistleblower doesn't exist and the whole story is just made up for political purposes.
But Trump is actively tweeting that he was within his rights to suggest that Ukraine investigate the Bidens for corruption and that he'd do it again, including asking China to investigate Biden.
If someone made up a story about me I wouldn't insist that I was right to have done the alleged thing and then do it again just to show the world how not sorry I was.
On October 16 2019 06:59 JimmiC wrote: And they likely will, since it is not like his support is falling. The question will be what the independents think about it or if they think some other benefit he provides (fighting with China, or economy or pulling back troops but then sending more to SA or whatever it is they like) is worth it.
I doubt his support with his base would drop even he was impeached.
Edit: it would be impressive if the person didn't exist since it appears everything this non-person said is true.
The impeachment poll numbers are ticking up, which is very very bad news for trump.
Trump's only viable argument may end up being "Obama did the same things and worse against me." And he may be right about that.
On October 16 2019 06:59 JimmiC wrote: And they likely will, since it is not like his support is falling. The question will be what the independents think about it or if they think some other benefit he provides (fighting with China, or economy or pulling back troops but then sending more to SA or whatever it is they like) is worth it.
I doubt his support with his base would drop even he was impeached.
Edit: it would be impressive if the person didn't exist since it appears everything this non-person said is true.
The impeachment poll numbers are ticking up, which is very very bad news for trump.
Trump's only viable argument may end up being "Obama did the same things and worse against me." And he may be right about that.
Don't think we have any evidence of Obama asking other countries to please investigate his political opponents. And we know the reason for Trump being under surveillance, his connections with Russia to influence the elections. There is this whole report about it. Nor have I seen any evidence of Obama ordering that investigation as opposed to intelligence agencies running into it while doing their regular job of spying on other countries (aka Russia). The investigation by Barr has been rather silent as of recent I think so I assume it came up with nothing?
Its the Berlusconi defence. The police didn't tap his phone. He kept calling mobsters that were tapped. It doesn't hold up to any form of scrutiny.
On October 16 2019 07:25 Gorsameth wrote: The investigation by Barr has been rather silent as of recent I think so I assume it came up with nothing?
Seems that way thus far. He's back in the US and instead of asking foreign powers for help, he's now instead giving unhinged speeches at religious universities. Seriously, that speech is rather discomforting to say the least. The man seems against the separation of church and state.
EPT
