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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:21 PoulsenB wrote:
So what will be the aftermath of the report's release, realistically speaking?
Business as usual? Really not sure. The Dems have enough that should be politically damaging to Trump in some way, even if it’s held on ice until the campaign heats up, not enough to attempt impeachment IMO, which wouldn’t work anyway, but might have been worth a shot (politically speaking) if Mueller’s report was a good bit worse.
In the same way shutting down the government can be good for you politically, or bad, impeachment I imagine could work similarly. I think it’s a bad move as things stand, if the Mueller report was way worse it could have been a decent move.
Any favourability numbers come out since the report?
As an aside I kinda have to give the GOP a pass, they’d be lunatics to impeach Trump, in many ways.
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On April 19 2019 18:54 Gorsameth wrote:
Lots of contact between the Campaign and Russia but since collusion is not a legal term the investigation focused on Coordination between the 2 parties, of which no evidence was found.
Basically I do something good for you, you do something good for me. But since we never actually discussed with each other that we would do these things its outside the scope of the investigation.
I'm going to say they get off on a technicality there, and yes that is just my personal opinion.
To quote the report
In sum, the investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances , the Campaign was receptive to the offer , while in other instances the Campaign officials shied away. Ultimately , the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.
So Russia wanted to help the Trump campaign, and at least some of the time the Trump campaign was happy to receive Russia's help. There was just a lack of evidence identifying quid pro quo or coordinated efforts to work together in achieving their goals. The Trump tower meeting was probably as close as it got, but they scrape by because they can't prove what exactly happened there, or even if they could, whether the participants knew what they were doing was illegal. I can accept that. The suspicions surrounding this campaign's activities were very reasonable.
What I can't accept though is the idea that because these actions didn't quite meet the bar of criminal conduct, that they did nothing wrong. Trump and his campaign still acted in immoral, unethical, embarrassing, and stupid ways. No doubt they knew as much, or they wouldn't have lied over and over trying to cover up what happened. I have no reservations about continuing to hold what happened against them, because it's still really shitty behavior, even if not illegal.
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It will take time to see how the public views the report. The report doesn’t say much that is new, but it does bring all of the bad acts and straight up lies by Trump into one place.
Of course Trump will say it clears him. But I don’t know if that will hold up. Even hearing one section of the report is pretty damning and does not give the impression of clearing the president.
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Trump is busy lying about the Mueller report and the McGahn episode this morning. So we can take that as an admission from him that his directive to McGahn was improper. As you can see, trumps method of communicating to the American people is to lie.
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Lost in all this is how the actions of Trump and his campaign to activey try and secure foreign aid from a hostile government to win an election, regardless of the legality, were indisputably unethical and unpatriotic. That should matter for something, but Trump has lowered the bar so much that it barely registers.
Still, it will be a fun point to bring up the next time Trump people get uppity about how unpatriotic kneeling during the anthem is, or something like that.
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There is a special joy to reading how for several months Sessions went to work every day with the letter of resignation in his pocket. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
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On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report.
When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading.
Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now.
I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 19 2019 21:37 Doodsmack wrote:Trump is busy lying about the Mueller report and the McGahn episode this morning. So we can take that as an admission from him that his directive to McGahn was improper. As you can see, trumps method of communicating to the American people is to lie. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1119207303700471809
It blows my mind if someone can’t see it’s his MO.
The note thing, I’m not sure if that’s just him bullshitting or his actual stance on the idea of sensible good practice in doing such crazy things as taking notes.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report. When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading. Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now. I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore.
Sounds like a pretty dumb article title to me, although I largely agree, fatigue set in ages ago to my eyes
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On April 19 2019 22:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report. When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading. Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now. I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore. Except Barr isn't right at all and the report contradicts Barr's statements about the report several times.
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On April 19 2019 22:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report. When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading. Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now. I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore.
I was going to respond to the NYT part, but then I noticed who posted this and realized I was being trolled.
Still, I agree impeachment is pretty much off the table at this point and the focus should be "impeachment at the ballot box" as it was explained earlier.
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2 more Virginia cops were pressured out of their job by anti-fascists for their links to white supremacist groups. This comes after learning the Black churches in Louisiana were burned down by a local sheriff's son.
Two Virginia police officers who worked for different agencies were fired this week after an anti-fascist group linked them to white nationalist organizations.
The first case involved Sgt. Robert A. Stamm of the Virginia Division of Capitol Police, who had been assigned to protests calling on Gov. Ralph Northam to resign over a racist yearbook photo that surfaced in February.
Anti-Fascists of the Seven Hills, which said it was based in Richmond, Va., wrote online in February that Sergeant Stamm came to its attention because he had a large Band-Aid covering his neck while patrolling. The group found photos on social media of Sergeant Stamm with tattoos, flags and banners that used white supremacist symbols and images, it said in a blog post.
It also said he was linked to the Asatru Folk Assembly, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has described as an extremist group that invokes pre-Christian Nordic spirituality. In 2015, the F.B.I. foiled a plot by men it described as followers of an extremist variant of the Asatru faith to attack black churches and synagogues in the Chesterfield area.
Sergeant Stamm was suspended after the group published its post. On Wednesday, Col. Anthony S. Pike, the Capitol Police chief, announced in a statement that Sergeant Stamm had been “separated from his employment.” He did not explain what had led to the firing.
In the second case, Daniel Morley, a school resource officer with the Chesterfield County Police Department, was fired Thursday following an investigation into allegations that he was affiliated with the group Identity Evropa, also known as the American Identity Movement. Members of that group helped plan the 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Antifa Seven Hills had identified Mr. Morley as a “pledge coordinator” for the group, which recruits on college campuses and elsewhere. Antifa said that Mr. Morley was responsible “for guiding new applicants through the vetting process” and had been a member since 2017.
www.nytimes.com
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:23 GreenHorizons wrote:2 more Virginia cops were pressured out of their job by anti-fascists for their links to white supremacist groups. This comes after learning the Black churches in Louisiana were burned down by a local sheriff's son. Show nested quote +Two Virginia police officers who worked for different agencies were fired this week after an anti-fascist group linked them to white nationalist organizations.
The first case involved Sgt. Robert A. Stamm of the Virginia Division of Capitol Police, who had been assigned to protests calling on Gov. Ralph Northam to resign over a racist yearbook photo that surfaced in February.
Anti-Fascists of the Seven Hills, which said it was based in Richmond, Va., wrote online in February that Sergeant Stamm came to its attention because he had a large Band-Aid covering his neck while patrolling. The group found photos on social media of Sergeant Stamm with tattoos, flags and banners that used white supremacist symbols and images, it said in a blog post.
It also said he was linked to the Asatru Folk Assembly, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has described as an extremist group that invokes pre-Christian Nordic spirituality. In 2015, the F.B.I. foiled a plot by men it described as followers of an extremist variant of the Asatru faith to attack black churches and synagogues in the Chesterfield area.
Sergeant Stamm was suspended after the group published its post. On Wednesday, Col. Anthony S. Pike, the Capitol Police chief, announced in a statement that Sergeant Stamm had been “separated from his employment.” He did not explain what had led to the firing.
In the second case, Daniel Morley, a school resource officer with the Chesterfield County Police Department, was fired Thursday following an investigation into allegations that he was affiliated with the group Identity Evropa, also known as the American Identity Movement. Members of that group helped plan the 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Antifa Seven Hills had identified Mr. Morley as a “pledge coordinator” for the group, which recruits on college campuses and elsewhere. Antifa said that Mr. Morley was responsible “for guiding new applicants through the vetting process” and had been a member since 2017. www.nytimes.com
But, but their freedom of speech, or something.
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On April 19 2019 22:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report. When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading. Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now. I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore.
You always amuse me with these little factoids you decide to drop into this thread. It has become beyond clear that you have no idea how a news paper works, how opinion pieces are run and the difference between an editorial department and a news department. And that you believe that the editorial section in a paper like the Times is any reflection of the general public.
The New York Time, the most middle of the road, centrist news paper with a long history of questionable reporting decisions decided to run a conservative opinion piece. You don’t say? Shocking.
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On April 19 2019 22:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report. When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading. Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now. I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore.
I don’t think you have read the NYT today bro.
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On April 19 2019 22:14 Wombat_NI wrote:It blows my mind if someone can’t see it’s his MO. The note thing, I’m not sure if that’s just him bullshitting or his actual stance on the idea of sensible good practice in doing such crazy things as taking notes.
He doesnt want his lawyers to take notes because that might create a record of his lies and improprieties. He wants his people to lie for him. Furthermore his belief is that the only way he can withstand scrutiny is to lie.
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On April 19 2019 22:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 22:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On April 19 2019 21:26 Plansix wrote:
It will take time to see how the public views the report. When even "The failing New York Times" is running articles titled "Barr Is Right About Everything. Admit You Were Wrong." I've got an idea of where public opinion is heading. Personally i think it's time for the Dems to forget about impeachment.It's only 18 months to the election, maybe put up a decent candidate and push out some positive policies that people like.Thats a better way to win swing voters because serious fatigue is hitting in.Too negative right now. I've got a feeling by doing that they're also diverting attention away from how divided their own party is as well though so not sure if they even can stop anymore. I don’t think you have read the NYT today bro.
This is the appropriate response, given the headline of today’s Times.
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On April 19 2019 22:29 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 22:23 GreenHorizons wrote:2 more Virginia cops were pressured out of their job by anti-fascists for their links to white supremacist groups. This comes after learning the Black churches in Louisiana were burned down by a local sheriff's son. Two Virginia police officers who worked for different agencies were fired this week after an anti-fascist group linked them to white nationalist organizations.
The first case involved Sgt. Robert A. Stamm of the Virginia Division of Capitol Police, who had been assigned to protests calling on Gov. Ralph Northam to resign over a racist yearbook photo that surfaced in February.
Anti-Fascists of the Seven Hills, which said it was based in Richmond, Va., wrote online in February that Sergeant Stamm came to its attention because he had a large Band-Aid covering his neck while patrolling. The group found photos on social media of Sergeant Stamm with tattoos, flags and banners that used white supremacist symbols and images, it said in a blog post.
It also said he was linked to the Asatru Folk Assembly, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has described as an extremist group that invokes pre-Christian Nordic spirituality. In 2015, the F.B.I. foiled a plot by men it described as followers of an extremist variant of the Asatru faith to attack black churches and synagogues in the Chesterfield area.
Sergeant Stamm was suspended after the group published its post. On Wednesday, Col. Anthony S. Pike, the Capitol Police chief, announced in a statement that Sergeant Stamm had been “separated from his employment.” He did not explain what had led to the firing.
In the second case, Daniel Morley, a school resource officer with the Chesterfield County Police Department, was fired Thursday following an investigation into allegations that he was affiliated with the group Identity Evropa, also known as the American Identity Movement. Members of that group helped plan the 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Antifa Seven Hills had identified Mr. Morley as a “pledge coordinator” for the group, which recruits on college campuses and elsewhere. Antifa said that Mr. Morley was responsible “for guiding new applicants through the vetting process” and had been a member since 2017. www.nytimes.com But, but their freedom of speech, or something.
They most definitely tried that, didn't work, but they tried. ANTIFA out here doing the tough work the FBI refuses to is a mild comfort though.
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EPT
