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On April 01 2019 04:59 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. I'd rather my taxes go towards a border wall than AOC's ridiculous plans
Right. The ridiculous plan of acknowledging climate change and doing something about it before we're irrevocably fucked. Absolutely preposterous.
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On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better.
Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window.
Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts.
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It's one thing to acknowledge climate change
What people like AOC do, though, is pretend that we know with almost absolute certainty:
1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
2) the extent/severity
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
I dont see any justification for the government mobilizing massive amounts of resources for something so specific yet so unsubstantiated
Until I'm provided with sufficient evidence, I will continue to write off fear mongers like bernie and AOC who are trying to make me get rid of my V8
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On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts.
Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again.
She's not supposed to have all the answers. No one is. But we have to have the conversation. You can plug your ears and go "well the timeline hasn't been proven", and by the time shit really starts going down it's entirely too late.
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I just got back from China. There is absolutely nothing that the US can do domestically in terms of environmental regulation that will make a dent in whatever global impact that China's ongoing development is having. AOC's GND is pie in the sky bullshit that would accomplish nothing other than the destruction of the US economy. There is nothing feasible or reasonable about it. It's not a vision. It's a joke.
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On April 01 2019 05:15 xDaunt wrote:
I just got back from China. There is absolutely nothing that the US can do domestically in terms of environmental regulation that will make a dent in whatever global impact that China's ongoing development is having. AOC's GND is pie in the sky bullshit that would accomplish nothing other than the destruction of the US economy. There is nothing feasible or reasonable about it. It's not a vision. It's a joke.
So because we're not the only nation that contributes, we're supposed to do nothing about it?
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On April 01 2019 05:13 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts. Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again. She's not supposed to have all the answers. She's starting the conversation.
the conversation was started decades ago.
SHE is the one who wants to mobilize massive amounts of resources - resources that could be spent on things like healthcare and homelessness mind you - to fight this boogeyman
the onus is on HER to present us with cold hard facts and answers as to why we should dump huge amounts of resources into her plan instead of perhaps helping poor people etc
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1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
Course not. You won't be alive, so who gives a shit.
2) the extent/severity
Not sure if you realise what a climate catastrophe would look like. People are pretty clear on that one, it won't be "an inconvenience". The only question is if it would indeed be an extinction event or not.
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
Yeah, because the free market is known to regulate itself, willing to make sacrifices, and never a race to the bottom. Except always. Briefly, just out of interest, what incentive would the "free market" have to regulate emissions etc (keeping in mind that they've never done this before)? Especially if there's people like you who don't give a shit?
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
"Might not work, so don't bother". Argument joins the illustrious bunch, like "gun control", "health care" and literally anything that would change the (shitty) status quo.
Good job.
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On April 01 2019 05:16 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:15 xDaunt wrote:
I just got back from China. There is absolutely nothing that the US can do domestically in terms of environmental regulation that will make a dent in whatever global impact that China's ongoing development is having. AOC's GND is pie in the sky bullshit that would accomplish nothing other than the destruction of the US economy. There is nothing feasible or reasonable about it. It's not a vision. It's a joke. So because we're not the only nation that contributes, we're supposed to do nothing about it?
It's easy for you to say just dump tons of resources into something that wont work
resources are finite. we pay taxes. we can choose to dump our money into a false cause or use the money to fix actual problems that are in our control and are immediate
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On April 01 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:13 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts. Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again. She's not supposed to have all the answers. She's starting the conversation. the conversation was started decades ago. SHE is the one who wants to mobilize massive amounts of resources - resources that could be spent on things like healthcare and homelessness mind you - to fight this boogeyman the onus is on HER to present us with cold hard facts and answers as to why we should dump huge amounts of resources into her plan instead of perhaps helping poor people etc
No.
Also, you don't seem to have a problem that Trump spends our tax money hand over fist to visit his own golf course, rather than helping "the poors". Interesting that poor people come up as an interest worth investing in now.
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On April 01 2019 05:20 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 05:13 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts. Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again. She's not supposed to have all the answers. She's starting the conversation. the conversation was started decades ago. SHE is the one who wants to mobilize massive amounts of resources - resources that could be spent on things like healthcare and homelessness mind you - to fight this boogeyman the onus is on HER to present us with cold hard facts and answers as to why we should dump huge amounts of resources into her plan instead of perhaps helping poor people etc No. Also, you don't seem to have a problem that Trump spends our tax money hand over fist to visit his own golf course, rather than helping "the poors". Interesting that poor people come up as an interest worth investing in now.
Yes
And why are you obsessed with Trump? You keep bringing him up despite the fact that we are talking about ocasio cortez.
I dont like Trump but i'd take him any day of the week over AOC
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On April 01 2019 05:11 BerserkSword wrote:
It's one thing to acknowledge climate change
What people like AOC do, though, is pretend that we know with almost absolute certainty:
1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
2) the extent/severity
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
I dont see any justification for the government mobilizing massive amounts of resources for something so specific yet so unsubstantiated
Until I'm provided with sufficient evidence, I will continue to write off fear mongers like bernie and AOC who are trying to make me get rid of my V8
There is sufficient evidence, but you just want to ignore it. There's like 70 years of science on this, the effects are very visible on all places of the globe. The free market for decades has actively pushed to make people like you believe there is no scientific consensus on this, so no they are not a good candidate to fix it. In reality there is no debate about this among climate scientists. We should have started with big measures 30 years ago.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
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On April 01 2019 05:18 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
Course not. You won't be alive, so who gives a shit. Not sure if you realise what a climate catastrophe would look like. People are pretty clear on that one, it won't be "an inconvenience". The only question is if it would indeed be an extinction event or not. Show nested quote +
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
Yeah, because the free market is known to regulate itself, willing to make sacrifices, and never a race to the bottom. Except always. Briefly, just out of interest, what incentive would the "free market" have to regulate emissions etc (keeping in mind that they've never done this before)? Especially if there's people like you who don't give a shit? Show nested quote +
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
"Might not work, so don't bother". Argument joins the illustrious bunch, like "gun control", "health care" and literally anything that would change the (shitty) status quo. Good job.
Youre damn right I wont give a shit about a climate catastrophe if it's 1000 years from now.
And I think you need to read up on the literature regarding climate change. and by literature I mean scientific literature, not leftist pamphlets
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On April 01 2019 05:24 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:20 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 05:13 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:
[quote]
AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent
Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician
She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts. Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again. She's not supposed to have all the answers. She's starting the conversation. the conversation was started decades ago. SHE is the one who wants to mobilize massive amounts of resources - resources that could be spent on things like healthcare and homelessness mind you - to fight this boogeyman the onus is on HER to present us with cold hard facts and answers as to why we should dump huge amounts of resources into her plan instead of perhaps helping poor people etc No. Also, you don't seem to have a problem that Trump spends our tax money hand over fist to visit his own golf course, rather than helping "the poors". Interesting that poor people come up as an interest worth investing in now. Yes And why are you obsessed with Trump? You keep bringing him up despite the fact that we are talking about ocasio cortez. I dont like Trump but i'd take him any day of the week over AOC
I bring him up because he's President, and he's the one actually spending your tax money. So he can visit Mar a Lago and charge people for the privilege of staying on his personal resort. You talk about AOC like you give the first shit what happens with your "finite" tax dollars, but you don't seem to have a problem with where they're going now.
"Causes that are within our control". 'Kay.
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On April 01 2019 05:24 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:11 BerserkSword wrote:
It's one thing to acknowledge climate change
What people like AOC do, though, is pretend that we know with almost absolute certainty:
1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
2) the extent/severity
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
I dont see any justification for the government mobilizing massive amounts of resources for something so specific yet so unsubstantiated
Until I'm provided with sufficient evidence, I will continue to write off fear mongers like bernie and AOC who are trying to make me get rid of my V8 There is sufficient evidence, but you just want to ignore it. There's like 70 years of science on this, the effects are very visible on all places of the globe. The free market for decades has actively pushed to make people like you believe there is no scientific consensus on this, so no they are not a good candidate to fix it. In reality there is no debate about this among climate scientists. We should have started with big measures 30 years ago. https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
read the link you posted.
none suggest an AOC level green new deal is required
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On April 01 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:13 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:29 BerserkSword wrote:On March 31 2019 20:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that AOC's GND and other bold proposals for progress, as well as Democratic presidential candidates' policy suggestions (e.g., Yang's UBI), are at least forcing conversations about ideas and topics that are worth exploring (even if they're ultimately rejected or heavily modified).
I actually don't mind some of those suggestions being "extreme left" (for America's political spectrum... It's center/ center-left for much of Europe), as it may force some wary Dems/ centrists to compromise faster and accept at least moderately-liberal positions, now that they're not being perceived as the extreme ones.
Also, I don't think AOC is really in that much trouble. She's eloquent and consistently going viral for positive reasons, her suggestions are overwhelmingly favorable by the American public, and the only people who I've seen strawman the GND are some conservatives who haven't read it and just listen to Fox News mischaracterize it. AOC speaks like she's still in high school....not something i'd describe as eloquent Also are there any sources on her suggestions being "overwhelmingly favorable" ? Based on what i see (anecdotal) she is usually considered a joke of a politician She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts. Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again. She's not supposed to have all the answers. She's starting the conversation. the conversation was started decades ago. SHE is the one who wants to mobilize massive amounts of resources - resources that could be spent on things like healthcare and homelessness mind you - to fight this boogeyman the onus is on HER to present us with cold hard facts and answers as to why we should dump huge amounts of resources into her plan instead of perhaps helping poor people etc
You may eventually find yourself feeling pretty silly for saying the evidence was insufficient because you wanted to keep your V8.
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On April 01 2019 05:28 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:24 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 05:20 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:17 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 05:13 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 05:10 Slydie wrote:On April 01 2019 04:55 NewSunshine wrote:On April 01 2019 04:49 xDaunt wrote:On April 01 2019 04:42 BerserkSword wrote:On April 01 2019 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
She's young and unpolished, so I'm willing to give her a pass on the speaking skills. She communicates well enough over social media anyway. Considering that 30-second soundbites are the primary weapons of politics, she's well-ahead of the curve on communications. I agree. I was just saying she isnt eloquent at the moment lol I don't think it really matters. She's not going to last. Her vacuous ideas don't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. She may stay where she is in Congress for a while because it's not a competitive district (unless she gets primaried, which is a real possibility), but she's not going to advance further. Ah yes, her major failing is that her biggest ideas don't hold up under scrutiny. Meanwhile, you defend to the hilt a man who campaigns and rallies on a border wall. Which holds up so much better. Everything isn't about Trump and how their great ideas work in reality is a very real concern about leftwing politics in every country. Turning the US around on some key issues like healthcare and climate will have some very hard-to-sell consequences even though the intentions are the best. When you job and lifestyle is at stake, idealism usuall goes out the window. Not to mention, the Democratic Party has some very tight connections to big money of their own, so she is not only against the Republicans on some of her fronts. Idealism is a start. The problem with the conversation is that someone tries to start the conversation, someone like BerserkSword walks in and says "well she's not correct on everything", like she's supposed to have all the answers, and they walk out of the room again. She's not supposed to have all the answers. She's starting the conversation. the conversation was started decades ago. SHE is the one who wants to mobilize massive amounts of resources - resources that could be spent on things like healthcare and homelessness mind you - to fight this boogeyman the onus is on HER to present us with cold hard facts and answers as to why we should dump huge amounts of resources into her plan instead of perhaps helping poor people etc No. Also, you don't seem to have a problem that Trump spends our tax money hand over fist to visit his own golf course, rather than helping "the poors". Interesting that poor people come up as an interest worth investing in now. Yes And why are you obsessed with Trump? You keep bringing him up despite the fact that we are talking about ocasio cortez. I dont like Trump but i'd take him any day of the week over AOC I bring him up because he's President, and he's the one actually spending your tax money. So he can visit Mar a Lago and charge people for the privilege of staying on his personal resort. You talk about AOC like you give the first shit what happens with your "finite" tax dollars, but you don't seem to have a problem with where they're going now. "Causes that are within our control". 'Kay.
I do have a problem with where the tax dollars are going now. Good job assuming based on nothing
that doesnt change the fact that AOC policies are comical, and Trump > AOC because he beats her in other areas, particularly the economy which is most important to me
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On April 01 2019 05:25 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:18 m4ini wrote:1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
Course not. You won't be alive, so who gives a shit.
2) the extent/severity
Not sure if you realise what a climate catastrophe would look like. People are pretty clear on that one, it won't be "an inconvenience". The only question is if it would indeed be an extinction event or not.
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
Yeah, because the free market is known to regulate itself, willing to make sacrifices, and never a race to the bottom. Except always. Briefly, just out of interest, what incentive would the "free market" have to regulate emissions etc (keeping in mind that they've never done this before)? Especially if there's people like you who don't give a shit?
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
"Might not work, so don't bother". Argument joins the illustrious bunch, like "gun control", "health care" and literally anything that would change the (shitty) status quo. Good job. Youre damn right I wont give a shit about a climate catastrophe if it's 1000 years from now. And I think you need to read up on the literature regarding climate change. and by literature I mean scientific literature, not leftist pamphlets
Oooh, okay, i see.
Is NASA sufficient? Or is that not Breitbart scientific enough? Or does NASA count in your circles now as leftist pamphlet? Just making sure before we go further.
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On April 01 2019 05:28 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 05:24 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On April 01 2019 05:11 BerserkSword wrote:
It's one thing to acknowledge climate change
What people like AOC do, though, is pretend that we know with almost absolute certainty:
1) the time frame. I dont care about climate change if the drastic effects occur 1000 years later
2) the extent/severity
3) that the government (rather than the free market/private sector, for example) is the key to preventing this supposed catastrophic situation
4) that any of these proposed attempts at addressing will even make a difference
I dont see any justification for the government mobilizing massive amounts of resources for something so specific yet so unsubstantiated
Until I'm provided with sufficient evidence, I will continue to write off fear mongers like bernie and AOC who are trying to make me get rid of my V8 There is sufficient evidence, but you just want to ignore it. There's like 70 years of science on this, the effects are very visible on all places of the globe. The free market for decades has actively pushed to make people like you believe there is no scientific consensus on this, so no they are not a good candidate to fix it. In reality there is no debate about this among climate scientists. We should have started with big measures 30 years ago. https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ read the link you posted. none suggest an AOC level green new deal is required
You suggest looking at the literature, I suggest looking up what happens with a 1 degree increase in global temperature. That happens real soon. This is in our lifetime. You may not give a shit now, but that can change real soon.
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I think I saw the most charitable, and possibly correct, interpretation of AOC's ridiculousness the other day. She's someone who has talked to or listened to smart people on the left, but only understands like 20% of what they say and so when she tries to repeat it, she mangles it. These people she is listening to are wrong, but she doesn't even get far enough to evaluate those ideas as they are actually presented.
The best example of this (and I think what led to that comment) happened just the other day when she said that the 22nd amendment was passed to prevent FDR from being reelected. She said this on MSNBC, and I don't think the host corrected her (doing a great disservice to the audience). That of course also shows how ridiculous this "she's a right-wing obsession" is. It's not right-wing media putting her on magazine covers or doing town halls.
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EPT
