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On March 27 2019 21:39 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 21:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 21:01 Gorsameth wrote:On March 27 2019 20:52 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 20:47 iamthedave wrote:On March 27 2019 20:38 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 20:28 Jockmcplop wrote:
Its my opinion that high level investigations of politicians should be transparent after the fact and if they themselves requrie an investigation to make that happen then it should be done.
Corruption of one kind does not mean that we look past corruption of another kind.
Having said that there's alot of reading to do that I haven't yet done on this. I don't really wanna look at mad right wing conspiracy blogs or anything like that while I'm at work so I'm taking xDaunt and doodsmack at their word that something dodgy occurred that needs looking into.
I don't see why partisanship should cause a situation where one group doesn't want the FBI or high level investigators to be transparent. Investigations into law enforcement should be par for the course.
I'm a little confused as to why this would lead back to both Obama and Hilary though, other than stupid tit for tat childishness (you go after my guy we go after your guys).
On the other hand, I'm glad this report is over with and I hope the Democrats can get back to investigating Trump for other stuff like the security pass issues and various other immoral/illegal activities. Here is why this stuff may roll back onto Hillary and Obama (regardless of whether it is just pure political damage or something more). Hillary is at the root of the possible FISA abuse. The Steele dossier was paid for by her campaign. And perhaps more importantly, it was her people who flooded the FBI, law enforcement, and media with the dossier and its allegations in 2016. As for Obama, his exposure comes from both the actions of his senior officials in the DOJ and intelligence agencies who were directly involved in the investigation and intelligence activities, and from the fact that he almost certainly knew what was going on at the time this stuff was happening. How do we know this? It shows up in the Page/Strzok texts talking about “POTUS wanting to stay informed” and from Nunes holding that press conference after looking at stuff at the White House. What he likely was reviewing were the presidential daily briefings. Additionally, remember that Trump tweet from March/April 2017 where he said that Obama bugged Trump Tower? Remember how Trump was roundly laughed at for that tweet at the time? That tweet certainly looks a little different today knowing what we know now. Other than your wishful thinking, in the most perfect occurrence, how does Hilary end up in actual trouble here? Even if she paid for the dossier, even if she spread it about, the FBI were the ones who acted on it. And even THEN there's debate on the timeline, and the FBI have said Steele is a source they've dealt with in the past and trust, AND multiple things from the dossier have been confirmed to be true, if not all of it. This is just another iteration of your revenge fantasies overriding your critical thinking skills. I'd have thought you'd have learned by now. If the underlying criminal charge is conspiracy to defraud the FISA court, her criminal liability depends upon the level of agreement between her and the law enforcement officials who secured the FISA warrants. This part isn’t known yet. All we know is where the dossier came from and then what her people did with it in terms of passing it around. There could be other avenues of criminal liability, but I’m not aware of those or know enough to know what they could be. So we should posthumously prosecute McCain? Since he gave the Steele dossier to the FBI, and not Hillary You are aware that McCain wasn’t the first person to get the dossier, right? In fact, he was one of the last. And he got it after it was used to secure a FISA warrant. You need to actually learn some of the facts. Your right, Steele went directly to the FBI with the information aswell. Which still doesn't involve Hillary in the picture at all.
Steele is efffectively Hillary’s agent. Same with Glenn Simpson and the FusionGPS people who went to DOJ/FBI with the same stuff. Same with Hillary’s Perkins Coie attorney. There were also like three or more other Hillary campaign people who funneled the dossier information to the FBI/DOJ. And I haven’t even brought up Brennan and the intelligence community yet. The point is that all of these people were bringing the same information to law enforcement. It simply beggars belief that this wasn’t coordinated.
Nor does it support the Grand Conspiracy because then the FBI could have just made shit up for the FISA warrant instead of involving yet another outsider, who is also a foreign national and ex-intelligence agent, in the Grand Conspiracy
Completely wrong. We already know from McCabe and others that there was no FISA warrant without the dossier. The big question is why the FBI/DOJ certified it as being verified when it obviously wasn’t.
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On March 27 2019 21:51 Plansix wrote:
I still want to know which FISA warrant we are talking about. The whole discussion is about vague wrongdoing surrounding a FISA warrant for "BLANK" cause by the great Clinton conspiracy.
Carter Page.
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On March 27 2019 21:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:At what point did Hillary order all the foreign intelligence agencies to notice that Trump people were talking to russians they were surveilling though? Did Hillary order them to warn the US intelligence about this or was that Obama? /s Show nested quote +GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors. source
This is one of the other big questions about all of this that many have been asking for a long time now: why are foreign intelligence finger prints all over this mess? We still don’t have an answer to it.
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I think if you're going to go on a wild goose chase about the Dossier, start with the Republicans who started the whole thing and work from there. Otherwise you're just blowing hot air.
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On March 27 2019 21:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 21:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:At what point did Hillary order all the foreign intelligence agencies to notice that Trump people were talking to russians they were surveilling though? Did Hillary order them to warn the US intelligence about this or was that Obama? /s GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors. source This is one of the other big questions about all of this that many have been asking for a long time now: why are foreign intelligence finger prints all over this mess? We still don’t have an answer to it. Because every Western country is spying/surveying Russians and people from the Trump campaign kept getting into contact with Russians under surveillance?
Its the same as when the Italian PM Berlusconi kept showing up in anti-mafia investigations. Not because of a grand conspiracy by the Police but because he kept calling Mafia members with wire-taps running on them.
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On March 27 2019 21:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 21:51 Plansix wrote:
I still want to know which FISA warrant we are talking about. The whole discussion is about vague wrongdoing surrounding a FISA warrant for "BLANK" cause by the great Clinton conspiracy. Carter Page.
Why would the FBI need to commit fraud to get a FISA warrant for Carter Page? The warrant application could have just been B-roll from him being a fool on CNN and the judge would be like “Ya, that boy be real dumb and into Russia. You’ll good to dig whatever shit clown be getting into.”
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There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it?
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On March 27 2019 21:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 21:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:At what point did Hillary order all the foreign intelligence agencies to notice that Trump people were talking to russians they were surveilling though? Did Hillary order them to warn the US intelligence about this or was that Obama? /s GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors. source This is one of the other big questions about all of this that many have been asking for a long time now: why are foreign intelligence finger prints all over this mess? We still don’t have an answer to it.
ok this is where I leave the thread for a week
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On March 27 2019 22:32 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 21:58 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 21:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:At what point did Hillary order all the foreign intelligence agencies to notice that Trump people were talking to russians they were surveilling though? Did Hillary order them to warn the US intelligence about this or was that Obama? /s GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors. source This is one of the other big questions about all of this that many have been asking for a long time now: why are foreign intelligence finger prints all over this mess? We still don’t have an answer to it. ok this is where I leave the thread for a week
I'm amazed that xDaunt has been allowed to peddle stuff like this for so long.
He comes out with long tangential posts stating several things that have been refuted or are refuted shortly thereafter. He then disappears for a few days/weeks and then re-appears, attempting to say the same things again, in the hopes that everyone's memory is too short to remember that the stuff he is spewing is B.S.
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On March 27 2019 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it?
And then we need to make sense of it all starting in 2015 when no one knew Trump was going to have any chance of doing anything.
This reminds me of the conspiracy that 3 million illegal votes were case in California for democrats. The entire thing hinges of the Democrats committing the largest scale voter fraud in human history and while also being the biggest idiots in modern history.
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United States43203 Posts
On March 27 2019 22:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it? And then we need to make sense of it all starting in 2015 when no one knew Trump was going to have any chance of doing anything. This reminds me of the conspiracy that 3 million illegal votes were case in California for democrats. The entire thing hinges of the Democrats committing the largest scale voter fraud in human history and while also being the biggest idiots in modern history.
I mean in fairness there is no way they could have known about the electoral college in advance. They probably would have rigged swing state elections or spread the fake votes evenly if they had known.
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You can read all about it in my electoral fan fiction where the DNC are voter fraud wizards and the Obama’s CIA has a giant CRT monitor the size of a car that can see the future.
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On March 27 2019 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it?
There are two obvious answers to the first question (not that they are exclusive or correct): 1) the ability to spy on a political opponent, and 2) destruction of a political opponent. Just look at how much damage has been inflicted on Trump over the past two years.
The second question is the more interesting one. I think the answer to it could be that no one expected Trump to win the election, thus no one expected any of the Crossfire Hurricane stuff or any of the foreign intelligence-related stuff to come to light.
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But why would they pick Trump in 2015? And why wouldn’t foreign intelligence agencies that are our allies tell the US that Russia is trying to fuck with our elections? And be like “Russia is reaching out to these people” that Trump hired?
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On March 27 2019 22:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 22:32 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On March 27 2019 21:58 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 21:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:At what point did Hillary order all the foreign intelligence agencies to notice that Trump people were talking to russians they were surveilling though? Did Hillary order them to warn the US intelligence about this or was that Obama? /s GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors. source This is one of the other big questions about all of this that many have been asking for a long time now: why are foreign intelligence finger prints all over this mess? We still don’t have an answer to it. ok this is where I leave the thread for a week I'm amazed that xDaunt has been allowed to peddle stuff like this for so long. He comes out with long tangential posts stating several things that have been refuted or are refuted shortly thereafter. He then disappears for a few days/weeks and then re-appears, attempting to say the same things again, in the hopes that everyone's memory is too short to remember that the stuff he is spewing is B.S.
You have some serious balls writing this right after the Russia conspiracy nonsense and Mueller investigation blew up in your face. Dare we ask who is really the conspiracy theorist?
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On March 27 2019 22:54 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it? There are two obvious answers to the first question (not that they are exclusive or correct): 1) the ability to spy on a political opponent, and 2) destruction of a political opponent. Just look at how much damage has been inflicted on Trump over the past two years. The second question is the more interesting one. I think the answer to it could be that no one expected Trump to win the election, thus no one expected any of the Crossfire Hurricane stuff or any of the foreign intelligence-related stuff to come to light.
Why are we creating a conspiracy to defeat a political opponent when we don't expect him to have a chance of winning the election?
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On March 27 2019 22:57 Plansix wrote:
But why would they pick Trump in 2015? And why wouldn’t foreign intelligence agencies that are our allies tell the US that Russia is trying to fuck with our elections? And be like “Russia is reaching out to these people” that Trump hired?
Maybe they were spying on all of the presidential candidates? I don’t know. I don’t pretend to have all of the answers. They may very well have had a very legitimate basis for spying on Trump and raising the red flag. But the problems with that theory are 1) we know that the foreign intelligence did not come through proper channels, and 2) we now know that Trump and his team did not conspire with Russians. This begs the question of what were the foreign intelligence agencies really doing.
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On March 27 2019 23:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 22:57 Plansix wrote:
But why would they pick Trump in 2015? And why wouldn’t foreign intelligence agencies that are our allies tell the US that Russia is trying to fuck with our elections? And be like “Russia is reaching out to these people” that Trump hired? Maybe they were spying on all of the presidential candidates? I don’t know. I don’t pretend to have all of the answers. They may very well have had a very legitimate basis for spying on Trump and raising the red flag. But the problems with that theory are 1) we know that the foreign intelligence did not come through proper channels, and 2) we now know that Trump and his team did not conspire with Russians. This begs the question of what were the foreign intelligence agencies really doing. We know they didn't conspire, except for the cases where they publicly stated that they conspired.
Or that we only have a decision by someone to not prosecute, who was specifically hired to not prosecute, and don't know the evidence behind that assessment until the report becomes public.
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On March 27 2019 23:01 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 22:54 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it? There are two obvious answers to the first question (not that they are exclusive or correct): 1) the ability to spy on a political opponent, and 2) destruction of a political opponent. Just look at how much damage has been inflicted on Trump over the past two years. The second question is the more interesting one. I think the answer to it could be that no one expected Trump to win the election, thus no one expected any of the Crossfire Hurricane stuff or any of the foreign intelligence-related stuff to come to light. Why are we creating a conspiracy to defeat a political opponent when we don't expect him to have a chance of winning the election?
Well, the initial goal was to spy on him. Just think of how much opposition research you can do with the tools that law enforcement had available. Defeating him became the new, primary objective after he won. My hunch is that the people involved really thought that they would find something dirty on Trump which would allow them to somewhat ex post facto justify what they did if need be, but they failed to do so.
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On March 27 2019 23:11 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2019 23:01 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2019 22:54 xDaunt wrote:On March 27 2019 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
There are only two interesting questions regarding xDaunt's conspiracy theory:
1. What was the aim of the conspiracy?
2. Why are they so bad at it? There are two obvious answers to the first question (not that they are exclusive or correct): 1) the ability to spy on a political opponent, and 2) destruction of a political opponent. Just look at how much damage has been inflicted on Trump over the past two years. The second question is the more interesting one. I think the answer to it could be that no one expected Trump to win the election, thus no one expected any of the Crossfire Hurricane stuff or any of the foreign intelligence-related stuff to come to light. Why are we creating a conspiracy to defeat a political opponent when we don't expect him to have a chance of winning the election? Well, the initial goal was to spy on him. Just think of how much opposition research you can do with the tools that law enforcement had available. Defeating him became the new, primary objective after he won. My hunch is that the people involved really thought that they would find something dirty on Trump which would allow them to somewhat ex post facto justify what they did if need be, but they failed to do so.
So they created this epic conspiracy to go after your guy, and one of the main principles that they relied on for making it work was: "I hope xDaunt's guy is really guilty of the thing that I'm creating this conspiracy around, so that I don't look bad for having accused him of it"?
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