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On March 23 2019 07:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 06:52 Danglars wrote:On March 23 2019 06:36 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:19 Excludos wrote:
Well, I'm at the edge of my seat here. Either this is going to start the biggest shitshow in recent memory, or it's going to be the biggest letdown in years. Don’t worry. We are going to get a shitshow. Given the lack of further indictments against Trump’s team, expect the DOJ to start going after the dirty FBI/DOJ officials (and possibly others) who got us into this mess now that Mueller is done. Also, and as a relevant aside, looks like my predictions about Trump, Jr. and the tower meeting are going to age quite well. Imagine that. There is going to be a lot off egg to wipe off of people’s faces. You think Barr & Team are going to do a good job on FISA abuse, unmasking, classified leaks? He interviewed well, but this is still the DOJ investigating the DOJ. Sessions' tenure only involved one major OIG investigation (as well as the firings/resignations of Comey, McCabe, Strzok, etc). I'm a little pessimistic on the overall functioning of the bureaucratic state to protect itself against internal investigations and major changes in the hierarchy. We will find out soon enough, but if anyone is going to do it, it will be Barr. He has nothing to prove. He owes nothing to anyone. And remember what Trump said he thinks his proudest achievement will be in that (NYPost?) interview from December: exposing government corruption. I think that the smart money is on justice being delivered. I agree Trump has been great for exposing government corruption, they were all his people tho. Not sure he meant that part.
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On March 23 2019 07:11 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:53 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2019 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:39 On_Slaught wrote:
I mean, there is probably enough on the public record alone that you could charge Trump with obstruction, let alone whatever else Mueller has access to.
I have no idea what to expect with collusion, but I'd be pretty shocked if there wasnt strong language about his obstruction and maybe even a statement that they would have indicted but for the fact he is the President.
Edit: also lol @ xDaunt. Didnt you ever learn not to count your chickens before they hatch? We have no idea what the report says. That’s fine. You can wait for the release of details from the report if you really want. I can wait for your mea culpa (and those of many other posters) a little longer. The report isn’t going to help you, though. Charging Jr. for illicit collusion related to the tower meeting falls under Mueller’s jurisdiction. If Mueller doesn’t do it, no one will. I love how certain you are before you have seen anything resembling contents of the report. This is pretty telling to how you treat every subject here: You've already made up your mind on what the truth is, despite no evidence to suggest that your view is correct. The rest of us sit here cautiously optimistic, while you sit there already planning your victory party. Do you not see how this is a very bad way to tackle problems in your life? What else can you not imagine the possibility of being wrong on that people around you might both disagree and know more about? Oh please. You and many others have been wildly proclaiming that Trump, his family, and his team were all going to be prosecuted for colluding with Russians for two years. Did he? Did he really? What about the others? Did they do that too? Or is this another case of you making broad, sweeping statements in an effort to paint people into a corner in an argument? Also, is he trying to bullshit us, or himself, when he thinks that this is "the end of the line"? This is not the only investigation being done into Trump and his dealings, and it isn't the totality of the criminal investigation either.
This is just another stage in the process and anyone predicting to be sure of the outcome is very silly, to say the least..
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Law Twitter (emptywheel and all of them) predicted that there would immediately be leaks that would not be possible to substantiate that the major news organizations would run with anyway.
Congratulations to the Washington Post for being the first to do so.
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On March 23 2019 07:24 Ben... wrote:
Law Twitter (emptywheel and all of them) predicted that there would immediately be leaks that would not be possible to substantiate that the major news organizations would run with anyway.
Congratulations to the Washington Post for being the first to do so. The big downside of 24/7 news. Everyone racing to be the first means they don't take enough time to confirm and vet things.
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On March 23 2019 07:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 06:52 Danglars wrote:On March 23 2019 06:36 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:19 Excludos wrote:
Well, I'm at the edge of my seat here. Either this is going to start the biggest shitshow in recent memory, or it's going to be the biggest letdown in years. Don’t worry. We are going to get a shitshow. Given the lack of further indictments against Trump’s team, expect the DOJ to start going after the dirty FBI/DOJ officials (and possibly others) who got us into this mess now that Mueller is done. Also, and as a relevant aside, looks like my predictions about Trump, Jr. and the tower meeting are going to age quite well. Imagine that. There is going to be a lot off egg to wipe off of people’s faces. You think Barr & Team are going to do a good job on FISA abuse, unmasking, classified leaks? He interviewed well, but this is still the DOJ investigating the DOJ. Sessions' tenure only involved one major OIG investigation (as well as the firings/resignations of Comey, McCabe, Strzok, etc). I'm a little pessimistic on the overall functioning of the bureaucratic state to protect itself against internal investigations and major changes in the hierarchy. We will find out soon enough, but if anyone is going to do it, it will be Barr. He has nothing to prove. He owes nothing to anyone. And remember what Trump said he thinks his proudest achievement will be in that (NYPost?) interview from December: exposing government corruption. I think that the smart money is on justice being delivered.
Do you really actually still believe the drain the swamp mantra after all that has happened?
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Already conflicting leaks. Time to just tune everything out until Barr/Congress release something. Hopefully we can minimize unsubstantiated rumors here.
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On March 23 2019 07:29 On_Slaught wrote:
Already conflicting leaks. Time to just tune everything out until Barr/Congress release something. Hopefully we can minimize unsubstantiated rumors here.
Indeed. The current set of leaks are all "senior Justice Department Official" but nobody has corroborated anything. Also Barr doesn't even have the report yet.
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On March 23 2019 07:34 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 07:29 On_Slaught wrote:
Already conflicting leaks. Time to just tune everything out until Barr/Congress release something. Hopefully we can minimize unsubstantiated rumors here. Indeed. The current set of leaks are all "senior Justice Department Official" but nobody has corroborated anything. Also Barr doesn't even have the report yet.
There you go Danglars, didn't even have to wait for the weekend lol.
This has been a major, long-awaited event for both sides of the aisle alike. People need to cool their shit and wait for the official gist of what's happening. I will gladly criticize this aspect of our media, and it's certainly nothing new.
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On March 23 2019 07:38 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 07:34 Ben... wrote:On March 23 2019 07:29 On_Slaught wrote:
Already conflicting leaks. Time to just tune everything out until Barr/Congress release something. Hopefully we can minimize unsubstantiated rumors here. Indeed. The current set of leaks are all "senior Justice Department Official" but nobody has corroborated anything. Also Barr doesn't even have the report yet. There you go Danglars, didn't even have to wait for the weekend lol. This has been a major, long-awaited event for both sides of the aisle alike. People need to cool their shit and wait for the official gist of what's happening. I will gladly criticize this aspect of our media, and it's certainly nothing new.
Yeah, Congressional leaks > Conflicting leaks from anonymous sources said to be senior Justice Department Officials. I'm still waiting for the weekend, which Barr himself said was a possible time for him to brief Congress.
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On March 23 2019 07:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 07:07 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2019 07:00 Plansix wrote:
Special reminder: Collusion isn't a criminal act that anyone will be charged with. It will be conspiracy to receive material aid from a foreign goverment to influence the outcome of an election. Or something else along those lines. Collusion only continues to be in teh discussion because Trump keeps saying "No collusion". This. The facts of Trump Jr taking a meeting to specifically accept hacked email info as part of accepting Russian state aid remain unchanged. As does Trump Sr’s tweet about those emails in the hour after the meeting was concluded. The best case scenario for Trump supporters here is a legal technicality, they already confessed to the deed. Also, if I were the FBI, I would be reluctant to charge the President's children without first releasing the report to Congress. That is what I would call a "High risk play" for the FBI and Justice Department if they are not done with the investigation.
Several "sources" say that no further indictments are coming from Mueller.
Now, I was really wondering about this unusual number of sealed indictments in DC, but it seems they were not coming from Mueller.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/22/special-counsel-mueller-has-no-sealed-indictments-as-russia-probe-ends-nbc-news.html
I don't know if Trump did anything or not. If he did, to my mind, he was probably more being played by a foreign power banking on his personality.
Trump Jr, however, I will NOT understand if nothing happens to him since he confessed to accepting material aid from people claiming to be acting on behalf of the russian government. It's pretty self-explanatory.
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On March 23 2019 07:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 07:11 NewSunshine wrote:On March 23 2019 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:53 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2019 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:39 On_Slaught wrote:
I mean, there is probably enough on the public record alone that you could charge Trump with obstruction, let alone whatever else Mueller has access to.
I have no idea what to expect with collusion, but I'd be pretty shocked if there wasnt strong language about his obstruction and maybe even a statement that they would have indicted but for the fact he is the President.
Edit: also lol @ xDaunt. Didnt you ever learn not to count your chickens before they hatch? We have no idea what the report says. That’s fine. You can wait for the release of details from the report if you really want. I can wait for your mea culpa (and those of many other posters) a little longer. The report isn’t going to help you, though. Charging Jr. for illicit collusion related to the tower meeting falls under Mueller’s jurisdiction. If Mueller doesn’t do it, no one will. I love how certain you are before you have seen anything resembling contents of the report. This is pretty telling to how you treat every subject here: You've already made up your mind on what the truth is, despite no evidence to suggest that your view is correct. The rest of us sit here cautiously optimistic, while you sit there already planning your victory party. Do you not see how this is a very bad way to tackle problems in your life? What else can you not imagine the possibility of being wrong on that people around you might both disagree and know more about? Oh please. You and many others have been wildly proclaiming that Trump, his family, and his team were all going to be prosecuted for colluding with Russians for two years. Did he? Did he really? What about the others? Did they do that too? Or is this another case of you making broad, sweeping statements in an effort to paint people into a corner in an argument? Also, is he trying to bullshit us, or himself, when he thinks that this is "the end of the line"? This is not the only investigation being done into Trump and his dealings, and it isn't the totality of the criminal investigation either. This is just another stage in the process and anyone predicting to be sure of the outcome is very silly, to say the least..
unless they are correct, right? just have patience before saying xdaunt is wrong. then when they release the incriminating report and you find out he’s wrong for sure he’ll have to eat a hat, right?
or is this a case of “the lady doth protest too much”
come on guys, predictions are fun. reputation is at stake!
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On March 23 2019 08:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 07:15 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:11 NewSunshine wrote:On March 23 2019 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:53 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2019 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:39 On_Slaught wrote:
I mean, there is probably enough on the public record alone that you could charge Trump with obstruction, let alone whatever else Mueller has access to.
I have no idea what to expect with collusion, but I'd be pretty shocked if there wasnt strong language about his obstruction and maybe even a statement that they would have indicted but for the fact he is the President.
Edit: also lol @ xDaunt. Didnt you ever learn not to count your chickens before they hatch? We have no idea what the report says. That’s fine. You can wait for the release of details from the report if you really want. I can wait for your mea culpa (and those of many other posters) a little longer. The report isn’t going to help you, though. Charging Jr. for illicit collusion related to the tower meeting falls under Mueller’s jurisdiction. If Mueller doesn’t do it, no one will. I love how certain you are before you have seen anything resembling contents of the report. This is pretty telling to how you treat every subject here: You've already made up your mind on what the truth is, despite no evidence to suggest that your view is correct. The rest of us sit here cautiously optimistic, while you sit there already planning your victory party. Do you not see how this is a very bad way to tackle problems in your life? What else can you not imagine the possibility of being wrong on that people around you might both disagree and know more about? Oh please. You and many others have been wildly proclaiming that Trump, his family, and his team were all going to be prosecuted for colluding with Russians for two years. Did he? Did he really? What about the others? Did they do that too? Or is this another case of you making broad, sweeping statements in an effort to paint people into a corner in an argument? Also, is he trying to bullshit us, or himself, when he thinks that this is "the end of the line"? This is not the only investigation being done into Trump and his dealings, and it isn't the totality of the criminal investigation either. This is just another stage in the process and anyone predicting to be sure of the outcome is very silly, to say the least.. unless they are correct, right? just have patience before saying xdaunt is wrong. then when they release the incriminating report and you find out he’s wrong for sure he’ll have to eat a hat, right? or is this a case of “the lady doth protest too much”
You are right. If their speculation turns out to be correct, they will be vindicated. Dauntless’s flavor of condescending speculation included.
Edit: but if we are predicting things, mine is that Trump leaves office in 2020 at the earliest, no matter how bad that report is. There was never going to be enough evidence to push the needle to the point where the senate would vote to remove him.
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Even if they did, he'd declare some kind of emergency and not leave
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On March 23 2019 08:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Even if they did, he'd declare some kind of emergency and not leave
If there was enough push in the senate to get him out, there'd be enough to override his veto on his emergency getting blocked.
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Impeachment and removal is final. Trump literally isn't involved from a power standpoint.
Saying otherwise is banana republic shit and my next question would be if we really landed on the moon and if 9/11 was an inside job. And perhaps did he fail to suspend the 2018 elections by national emergency because of Mueller, "Q," or lizard people.
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On March 23 2019 08:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 08:17 IgnE wrote:On March 23 2019 07:15 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:11 NewSunshine wrote:On March 23 2019 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:53 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2019 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:39 On_Slaught wrote:
I mean, there is probably enough on the public record alone that you could charge Trump with obstruction, let alone whatever else Mueller has access to.
I have no idea what to expect with collusion, but I'd be pretty shocked if there wasnt strong language about his obstruction and maybe even a statement that they would have indicted but for the fact he is the President.
Edit: also lol @ xDaunt. Didnt you ever learn not to count your chickens before they hatch? We have no idea what the report says. That’s fine. You can wait for the release of details from the report if you really want. I can wait for your mea culpa (and those of many other posters) a little longer. The report isn’t going to help you, though. Charging Jr. for illicit collusion related to the tower meeting falls under Mueller’s jurisdiction. If Mueller doesn’t do it, no one will. I love how certain you are before you have seen anything resembling contents of the report. This is pretty telling to how you treat every subject here: You've already made up your mind on what the truth is, despite no evidence to suggest that your view is correct. The rest of us sit here cautiously optimistic, while you sit there already planning your victory party. Do you not see how this is a very bad way to tackle problems in your life? What else can you not imagine the possibility of being wrong on that people around you might both disagree and know more about? Oh please. You and many others have been wildly proclaiming that Trump, his family, and his team were all going to be prosecuted for colluding with Russians for two years. Did he? Did he really? What about the others? Did they do that too? Or is this another case of you making broad, sweeping statements in an effort to paint people into a corner in an argument? Also, is he trying to bullshit us, or himself, when he thinks that this is "the end of the line"? This is not the only investigation being done into Trump and his dealings, and it isn't the totality of the criminal investigation either. This is just another stage in the process and anyone predicting to be sure of the outcome is very silly, to say the least.. unless they are correct, right? just have patience before saying xdaunt is wrong. then when they release the incriminating report and you find out he’s wrong for sure he’ll have to eat a hat, right? or is this a case of “the lady doth protest too much” You are right. If their speculation turns out to be correct, they will be vindicated. Dauntless’s flavor of condescending speculation included. Edit: but if we are predicting things, mine is that Trump leaves office in 2020 at the earliest, no matter how bad that report is. There was never going to be enough evidence to push the needle to the point where the senate would vote to remove him.
Small hint: there isn’t a lot of speculation on my part. There has been ample information to work off of for many months, a lot of which I have cited to in this thread and the blog. It just has been ignored by mainstream outlets for the usual political reasons. Long story short, anyone who has been paying attention to the details is entirely unsurprised by Mueller’s nothingburger.
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On March 23 2019 09:28 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 08:23 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 08:17 IgnE wrote:On March 23 2019 07:15 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:11 NewSunshine wrote:On March 23 2019 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:53 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2019 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:39 On_Slaught wrote:
I mean, there is probably enough on the public record alone that you could charge Trump with obstruction, let alone whatever else Mueller has access to.
I have no idea what to expect with collusion, but I'd be pretty shocked if there wasnt strong language about his obstruction and maybe even a statement that they would have indicted but for the fact he is the President.
Edit: also lol @ xDaunt. Didnt you ever learn not to count your chickens before they hatch? We have no idea what the report says. That’s fine. You can wait for the release of details from the report if you really want. I can wait for your mea culpa (and those of many other posters) a little longer. The report isn’t going to help you, though. Charging Jr. for illicit collusion related to the tower meeting falls under Mueller’s jurisdiction. If Mueller doesn’t do it, no one will. I love how certain you are before you have seen anything resembling contents of the report. This is pretty telling to how you treat every subject here: You've already made up your mind on what the truth is, despite no evidence to suggest that your view is correct. The rest of us sit here cautiously optimistic, while you sit there already planning your victory party. Do you not see how this is a very bad way to tackle problems in your life? What else can you not imagine the possibility of being wrong on that people around you might both disagree and know more about? Oh please. You and many others have been wildly proclaiming that Trump, his family, and his team were all going to be prosecuted for colluding with Russians for two years. Did he? Did he really? What about the others? Did they do that too? Or is this another case of you making broad, sweeping statements in an effort to paint people into a corner in an argument? Also, is he trying to bullshit us, or himself, when he thinks that this is "the end of the line"? This is not the only investigation being done into Trump and his dealings, and it isn't the totality of the criminal investigation either. This is just another stage in the process and anyone predicting to be sure of the outcome is very silly, to say the least.. unless they are correct, right? just have patience before saying xdaunt is wrong. then when they release the incriminating report and you find out he’s wrong for sure he’ll have to eat a hat, right? or is this a case of “the lady doth protest too much” You are right. If their speculation turns out to be correct, they will be vindicated. Dauntless’s flavor of condescending speculation included. Edit: but if we are predicting things, mine is that Trump leaves office in 2020 at the earliest, no matter how bad that report is. There was never going to be enough evidence to push the needle to the point where the senate would vote to remove him. Small hint: there isn’t a lot of speculation on my part. There has been ample information to work off of for many months, a lot of which I have cited to in this thread and the blog. It just has been ignored by mainstream outlets for the usual political reasons. Long story short, anyone who has been paying attention to the details is entirely unsurprised by Mueller’s nothingburger.
It's been two years, so I'm content to wait a few days, but it's been fun watching the Andrew McCarthy pieces I've been posting turn out to be true, when twitter and thread experts said that, no, Mueller was building his collusion case!
Since at least December 2017 things looked like they would turn out this way... just a few more days...
If there really is nothing besides "firing Comey was shady" then there should be many victory laps and the people who pushed this should be reminded of that again and again. To squander the first two years of a presidency on this is a huge scandal.
So I think I will wait just a few more days...
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On March 23 2019 09:41 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2019 09:28 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 08:23 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 08:17 IgnE wrote:On March 23 2019 07:15 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:11 NewSunshine wrote:On March 23 2019 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 23 2019 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On March 23 2019 06:53 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2019 06:48 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
That’s fine. You can wait for the release of details from the report if you really want. I can wait for your mea culpa (and those of many other posters) a little longer. The report isn’t going to help you, though. Charging Jr. for illicit collusion related to the tower meeting falls under Mueller’s jurisdiction. If Mueller doesn’t do it, no one will. I love how certain you are before you have seen anything resembling contents of the report. This is pretty telling to how you treat every subject here: You've already made up your mind on what the truth is, despite no evidence to suggest that your view is correct. The rest of us sit here cautiously optimistic, while you sit there already planning your victory party. Do you not see how this is a very bad way to tackle problems in your life? What else can you not imagine the possibility of being wrong on that people around you might both disagree and know more about? Oh please. You and many others have been wildly proclaiming that Trump, his family, and his team were all going to be prosecuted for colluding with Russians for two years. Did he? Did he really? What about the others? Did they do that too? Or is this another case of you making broad, sweeping statements in an effort to paint people into a corner in an argument? Also, is he trying to bullshit us, or himself, when he thinks that this is "the end of the line"? This is not the only investigation being done into Trump and his dealings, and it isn't the totality of the criminal investigation either. This is just another stage in the process and anyone predicting to be sure of the outcome is very silly, to say the least.. unless they are correct, right? just have patience before saying xdaunt is wrong. then when they release the incriminating report and you find out he’s wrong for sure he’ll have to eat a hat, right? or is this a case of “the lady doth protest too much” You are right. If their speculation turns out to be correct, they will be vindicated. Dauntless’s flavor of condescending speculation included. Edit: but if we are predicting things, mine is that Trump leaves office in 2020 at the earliest, no matter how bad that report is. There was never going to be enough evidence to push the needle to the point where the senate would vote to remove him. Small hint: there isn’t a lot of speculation on my part. There has been ample information to work off of for many months, a lot of which I have cited to in this thread and the blog. It just has been ignored by mainstream outlets for the usual political reasons. Long story short, anyone who has been paying attention to the details is entirely unsurprised by Mueller’s nothingburger. It's been two years, so I'm content to wait a few days, but it's been fun watching the Andrew McCarthy pieces I've been posting turn out to be true, when twitter and thread experts said that, no, Mueller was building his collusion case! Since at least December 2017 things looked like they would turn out this way... just a few more days... If there really is nothing besides "firing Comey was shady" then there should be many victory laps and the people who pushed this should be reminded of that again and again. To squander the first two years of a presidency on this is a huge scandal. So I think I will wait just a few more days...
I wouldn't say it was squandered if the information gleaned is worth it.
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I've already won monetarily from betting Trump wouldn't fire Mueller way back after Trump first dared criticize him. (And from his perspective, as obviously guilty as Trump was, he would have no choice but to fire such a competent investigator and lawyer to preserve himself. He thought it was a sure bet lol). This weekend's celebrations are paid for!
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March madness just got madder.
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EPT
