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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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Returning to Abrams, per the NYT one thing Biden's team is considering is to select a running mate early on. One of the top candidates for that spot is Abrams (along with Beto), whom Biden had lunch with recently and spoke highly of.
I hope he holds off on that and waits to see how the field says out before announcing a running mate. Go with the hot hand at the time if he makes it that far.
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On March 22 2019 00:46 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 22:21 brian wrote:
all oblade is telling you is what you already knew, it doesn’t matter to his supporters because the facts are whatever trump and fox news says they are. the man has no obvious disability.
lol at ‘petty old chestnuts’ like mocking the disabled, gold star dead veterans and his family, or POWs while both alive or dead. the bar only gets lower. whatever it takes to rationalize blind hatred ignorance and stupidity. we’re talking about the president of the united states btw, in current year. hopefully that’s still easy to forget after reading all that. The most ridiculous part of the mocking of a POW and Dead veterans is the guy dodged the Draft. I mean it would still be insulting if another soldier did it, but a guy who used his rich daddy to keep him out mocking a guy who actually participated is a different level of sleaze. And how does this not impact his voters? The whole military and anyone who has relatives in it should be furious. It is such a phenomenon that because he attacks everyone always people who support him just focus on the attacks they agree with and ignore the others. Its more extreme but not the first time.
I seem to remember something similar happening with Bush vs Kerry.
A decorated soldier being attacked for his service while running against someone that avoided having to go to war.
And during the campaign Trump attacked a gold star family?
Didn't seem to hurt him then either.
Cognitive dissonance. Its a hell of a drug.
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On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency.  with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself.
This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though.
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United States13132 Posts
On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though.
So a few posts ago you claimed Trump pulled out of Syria. Someone corrected you and then you changed your story about what Trump actually did and find this an acceptable alternative. That's why people think you're brainwashed. Whatever Trump did is acceptable and you'll do any mental gymnastics required to make it true.
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On March 21 2019 23:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 20:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
If moderates vote for trump in the coming election, they weren't moderates to begin with. There is no policy he has achieved while in office, to warrant them giving him another go. This next election should be a landslide for the den candidate I don't mind being the only Machiavellian to note this but your enemies aren't sitting in the White House and Senate waiting to be landslid. Sticking to the same hubris of it's finally the end for Trump, he's not serious, he won't get nominated, he won't win, he'll get impeached, he won't get reelected, this election is your last opportunity so it might be worth trying something new.
Oh I'm speaking solely on the election and nothing else. And my hubris in regards to trumps imminent demise has changed to "I hope we can weather the storm". As with the India elections, it will take something akin to 911 to keep trump. I just don't see him having a second term.
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On March 22 2019 01:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though. So a few posts ago you claimed Trump pulled out of Syria. Someone corrected you and then you changed your story about what Trump actually did and find this an acceptable alternative. That's why people think you're brainwashed. Whatever Trump did is acceptable and you'll do any mental gymnastics required to make it true.
Wrong. I acknowledged that I wasn’t fully informed on the subject. It was a reduction of troop totals not pulling out.
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United States13132 Posts
On March 22 2019 01:09 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 01:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though. So a few posts ago you claimed Trump pulled out of Syria. Someone corrected you and then you changed your story about what Trump actually did and find this an acceptable alternative. That's why people think you're brainwashed. Whatever Trump did is acceptable and you'll do any mental gymnastics required to make it true. Wrong. I acknowledged that I wasn’t fully informed on the subject. It was a reduction of troop totals not pulling out.
Luckily Trump promised to defeat ISIS in 90 days, pull out of Syria, and reduce troop totals so he did exactly as he promised!
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On March 22 2019 01:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 01:09 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 22 2019 01:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though. So a few posts ago you claimed Trump pulled out of Syria. Someone corrected you and then you changed your story about what Trump actually did and find this an acceptable alternative. That's why people think you're brainwashed. Whatever Trump did is acceptable and you'll do any mental gymnastics required to make it true. Wrong. I acknowledged that I wasn’t fully informed on the subject. It was a reduction of troop totals not pulling out. Luckily Trump promised to defeat ISIS in 90 days, pull out of Syria, and reduce troop totals so he did exactly as he promised!
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.... but ISIS is still alive and kicking
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United States13132 Posts
On March 22 2019 01:21 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 01:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 22 2019 01:09 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 22 2019 01:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though. So a few posts ago you claimed Trump pulled out of Syria. Someone corrected you and then you changed your story about what Trump actually did and find this an acceptable alternative. That's why people think you're brainwashed. Whatever Trump did is acceptable and you'll do any mental gymnastics required to make it true. Wrong. I acknowledged that I wasn’t fully informed on the subject. It was a reduction of troop totals not pulling out. Luckily Trump promised to defeat ISIS in 90 days, pull out of Syria, and reduce troop totals so he did exactly as he promised! I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.... but ISIS is still alive and kicking
It's more that Trump promises so many different things that you can always say that he did what he promised. Just need the mental gymnastics to only remember the one that fits your current narrative.
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That’s why getting into the promises game with Trump supporters is a worthless endeavor. These folks will tell you that the words he uses aren’t important, and then claim that they like him because he does what he said he would. This a la carte reasoning (or lack thereof) is designed to resist substantive criticism, so why bother?
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On March 22 2019 01:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 01:21 IyMoon wrote:On March 22 2019 01:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 22 2019 01:09 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 22 2019 01:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though. So a few posts ago you claimed Trump pulled out of Syria. Someone corrected you and then you changed your story about what Trump actually did and find this an acceptable alternative. That's why people think you're brainwashed. Whatever Trump did is acceptable and you'll do any mental gymnastics required to make it true. Wrong. I acknowledged that I wasn’t fully informed on the subject. It was a reduction of troop totals not pulling out. Luckily Trump promised to defeat ISIS in 90 days, pull out of Syria, and reduce troop totals so he did exactly as he promised! I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.... but ISIS is still alive and kicking It's more that Trump promises so many different things that you can always say that he did what he promised. Just need the mental gymnastics to only remember the one that fits your current narrative.
Ah, that makes sense.
I am sorry I was judging your post unfairly
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On March 22 2019 01:29 farvacola wrote:
That’s why getting into the promises game with Trump supporters is a worthless endeavor. These folks will tell you that the words he uses aren’t important, and then claim that they like him because he does what he said he would. This a la carte reasoning (or lack thereof) is designed to resist substantive criticism, so why bother?
pretty much everyone thinks that politicians are liars who can’t/won’t do all that they say they will. so that should temper the second half of your argument. i find it kind of baffling that almost everyone in this thread is unable to see how trump supporters might reasonably interpret his first two years as a (limited) success. i’m sorry but saying to someone who thinks trump did something good, by pulling out of the TPP or by pulling out of talks with Iran, that “those aren’t good things!” is just totally missing the point. trump voters disagree with you about what “good” is! it also doesn’t seem to me that obama’s first two years were obviously more successful, for example.
the most “successful” aspect of the trump presidency has been the disintegration of the elite media’s legitimacy and received wisdom. i am sure everyone in this thread will say “but that’s bad!” but again, you are missing the point. it would also be missing the point to say “that has nothing to do with policy or his executive role.” the president is a leader, not simply a bureaucrat
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To the extent you’re highlighting the futility in trying to anchor political sentiments in solely objective criteria, I agree and that’s a big part of why I think any Democrat ploy of “but how will they pay for it” is a loser out of the gate. Nevertheless, I think there’s plenty of room to criticize a lot of what Trump supporters say in terms of coherence, be it via reason or mere consistency.
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Right now, collectively we seem to have the shortest political memories I've ever experienced in my lifetime. Trump promised to repeal the ACA and failed to do so in spectacular fashion. Obama at least was able to pass a healthcare law, administrate TARP and navigate the economic recession.
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On March 22 2019 01:56 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 01:29 farvacola wrote:
That’s why getting into the promises game with Trump supporters is a worthless endeavor. These folks will tell you that the words he uses aren’t important, and then claim that they like him because he does what he said he would. This a la carte reasoning (or lack thereof) is designed to resist substantive criticism, so why bother? pretty much everyone thinks that politicians are liars who can’t/won’t do all that they say they will. so that should temper the second half of your argument. i find it kind of baffling that almost everyone in this thread is unable to see how trump supporters might reasonably interpret his first two years as a (limited) success. i’m sorry but saying to someone who thinks trump did something good, by pulling out of the TPP or by pulling out of talks with Iran, that “those aren’t good things!” is just totally missing the point. trump voters disagree with you about what “good” is! it also doesn’t seem to me that obama’s first two years were obviously more successful, for example. the most “successful” aspect of the trump presidency has been the disintegration of the elite media’s legitimacy and received wisdom. i am sure everyone in this thread will say “but that’s bad!” but again, you are missing the point. it would also be missing the point to say “that has nothing to do with policy or his executive role.” the president is a leader, not simply a bureaucrat
i don’t know if you’re referencing me at all, but that’s not at all the objection i’m making. myself, and at least a few others, are objecting to qualifying total lies as wins, understanding that was a lie, and continuing to call it a win.
my objections have absolutely nothing to do with trump or his (lack of) accomplishments. in this way, this too misses the point.
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i must have missed where people said a total lie was a win for trump
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On March 22 2019 02:59 IgnE wrote:
i must have missed where people said a total lie was a win for trump
Are you saying it didn't happen or are you saying you are not aware of it?
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On March 22 2019 02:59 IgnE wrote:
i must have missed where people said a total lie was a win for trump
yea np. it’s in this chain
On March 22 2019 00:55 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 23:39 brian wrote:On March 21 2019 23:31 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 21 2019 22:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:44 Gorgonoth wrote:
I think you guys severely underestimate that such a big factor with why trump won is because people had a deep seated hatred for Hillary. It’s far more common among conservatives for people to say “I wasn’t crazy about him, but I sure as hell wasnt going to let Hillary in and that’s what will happen if I don’t vote for him.” Also the idea that he has accomplished nothing is ridiculous. Sure he’s failed on some big issues, but he got conservative judges in, pulled out of TPP, Syria. Cut taxes. Those aren’t small things to a lot of people I talk to about this on a regular basis. 1) Pulling out of TPP isn't necessarily a win. 2) He didn't pull out of Syria. 3) Pulling out of the Iran deal wasn't a good thing. 4) His tax cuts were terrible. The vast majority of people didn't even notice them in their pay check and had to pay significantly more this tax season. 5) He hasn't done anything for the economy that didn't start with Obama, and he's hurt several sectors of the economy with his ridiculous trade war (e.g. agriculture). Trump really hasn't accomplished much of anything positive for the American people overall. On essentially all of those issues I know that you think they are losses, but his supporters don’t. They view the fact that he pulled out of those deals and did cut taxes(regardless of how effective they were) as promised made and kept. I was misinformed on Syria I admit, he just reduced troop totals instead of the withdrawal I expected. And with point 5, it doesn’t really matter to people why the economy is doing well, the fact that it is somehow makes it very hard to best trump IMO. I am just tired of the conception that people that will back trump in 2020 are brainwashed racists. To them Trump has accomplished allot, and the fact that he has no manners or sense of decency on twitter isn’t viewed the same way as you view it. No one thought he was going to be an eloquent orator and a noble guy. He’s a slime ball sure. But he has accomplished things that many conservatives and republicans are happy about. I think he has a very high chance of getting re-elected unless the economy ranks hard. Sorry for rambling posts I can’t keep up with your guys posting frequency. with respect, hopefully you can appreciate an argument against being brainwashed that is essentially ‘we just believe different things on these set of facts(TPP excepted, that’s not a fact)’ is a uniquely poor argument against being brainwashed. i am specifically not addressing whether or not people assume racism in this, i don’t think racism really enters the discussion at this point. and for the sake of clarity, brainwashed certainly isn’t a word of my choosing. but you are essentially building the case against yourself. This is what I mean, merely the fact that he pulled out of those agreements, cut taxes, appointed conservative justices reduced military involvement in Syria , good or bad, is faithful to the rhetoric he promised in his campaign. You can argue about whether those actions were actually beneficial though.
it begins with an acknowledgement that a withdrawal from syria is a trump win. he then finds out we didn’t withdraw from syria. he then still counts this as a win.
that this all happened in a conversation about whether or not trump supporters have been ‘brainwashed’ is the icing on the context cake. it’s not clear the poster even know how quickly and without thought that goal post moved, and i still question how flexible that goal post is. i didn’t think it worth probing further because i’m hesitant to try to drag people onto the carpet. but it’s just another one of those times anderson cooper ought to come back out and tell us ‘he’d take a shit on your desk and you’d defend it.’
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EPT
