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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On March 22 2019 06:11 On_Slaught wrote:
Didn't we discuss the private email use of Iavanka last year? I feel like the story was in the news for a while and then died.
Yes, that's why I said she pleaded ignorance then already. But I don't remember the deletion part, and the rest of the article about other officials.
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On March 22 2019 06:04 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 05:57 Danglars wrote:On March 22 2019 05:29 Nouar wrote:Woops, it seems Ivanka and Jared are conducting official business on private email addresses, including WhatsApp to discuss sharing nuclear technology with Saudi Arabia. Well, I wonder if they will get a double standard from our dear republicans who were so outraged by HRC's email server ? (There is no talk of classified info, though discussing the sharing nuclear secrets is kinda sensitive diplomatic information I guess ? But Ivanka looks like she was NOT keeping records of official mails she received and did not answer, as she deleted them... Woops, reminds me of something ?) https://www.apnews.com/f73b8b3ff73c4e2ea1ea5e6537af041fTrump’s lawyer, Abbe Lowell, informed the committee late last year that Trump doesn’t preserve official emails she receives in her personal account if she doesn’t respond to them. Cummings says that appears to violate the Presidential Records Act. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” It also details the use of the messaging application WhatsApp by Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner and of personal email accounts by other former senior White House aides that Cummings says “raises additional security and federal records concerns.” Some of those communications involved a proposal to transfer U.S. nuclear power technology to Saudi Arabia. Lowell confirmed that Kushner, Ivanka Trump’s husband and a senior White House aide, uses WhatsApp to conduct official U.S. government business. That includes communicating with “people outside the United States,” though Lowell did not provide the identities of those involved. Lowell also would not tell the committee whether Kushner had ever used WhatsApp to discuss classified information. When asked, Lowell said, “That’s above my pay grade,” and referred questions to the White House and the National Security Council As always also, I am pleasantly surprised by the non-opinion section of Fox (well, it depends on which topics really), they sometimes manage to get some articles clearly not in favour of Trump. This one is a good example of putting him in a pretty bad light. https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/03/21/michael-dukakis-tank-photo-dem-blasts-trump-mocking-himI'm usually avoiding ALL opinion pieces of all news websites though, apart from Napolitano as it gives me good insight on what a true conservative (sometimes even worse than that since he's more libertarian) thinks, while being relatively impervious to bias regarding the idiot-in-chief's conduct. But just hours later, Lowell issued a letter of his own disputing Cummings’ characterization of some of his comments. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” Since she already has it set up to preserve records for all sent mail, doing the same for all received mail should be quite easy. She should be prosecuted if this is not complied with. Same with not forwarding and preserving all WhatsApp messages sent and received, documented with decrypted backups. You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Not exactly "she now already has it set up". Since 2017, she has changed her way of doing things, and now forwards incoming official mails to her official mailbox (well that is how I read it). Prior to that date, she pleaded ignorance, which is really funny seeing how they treated HRC. Ignorance, really ? :-D Well I'm not really expecting anything, as they already said "but it's not the same", people will argue there was no classified information, so it's not criminal (which I actually agree with, administrative sanctions are more than enough for this). I'll just wait and see is there is outrage or excuses over the deletion. Some other topics : Trump is using 2020 campaign money to spend in his own hotels, catering, legal services etc... ultimately going into his businesses. It was already the same in 2016, at least during the inauguration, and that would be utterly unacceptable for anyone else, but I guess it's lost in the background noise in this case. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-2020-election-donations-campaign-tower-new-york-a8833851.html?utm_source=reddit.comAnd since I'm "new" to US politics, I just stumbled about this one, which had me chuckle a little. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversyShow nested quote + In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost. Show nested quote +On December 14, 2009, CNN reported[14] that all 22 million missing emails had been found on backup tapes, and that the Obama Administration reached a settlement with two watchdog groups who had sued to obtain the emails. edit : sorry I missed some info in your post : Show nested quote +You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Should I remind you that the deleted messages were from the server admin who previously didn't bother implementing a retention policy prior to the FOIA requests, and suddenly deleted the messages when the requests came in and he realised that the mails still existed ? (A really stupid behaviour, unrelated to HRC herself). And that the classified messages didn't have proper classification markings ? Missing them entirely or only having a "(c)" somewhere in the mail ? Which was one of the reasons they did not prosecute, since it would not stand in front of a court. A personal server is a little bit better security-wise, than using for example WhatsApp.
The President assumed office in 2017. Ivanka is not a career civil servant. She had implemented a forwarding-preservation policy, now she just applies that to inbox too. Nothingburger.
Clinton herself claimed to use a team of lawyers to sort through which of the 60k emails were work related. That was Hillary's explanation to why they were deleted, despite being under subpoena. Any changes to the excuse blaming some rogue server admin should be dismissed and ridiculed. I'm sure BleachBit was an accidental server admin thing as well.
Yes, career politicians and civil servants with years seeing classified documents should know to look for (C) on the mail and only use secure servers to transmit and view. Good-old long time aide to the Clintons Sidney Blumenthal received some of these to advise Clinton on sensitive matters. You're choosing to make her as dumb as some first-year aide. Clinton herself told the FBI she thought they were alphabetical markings, and denied ever having received training. Apparently, the State Department whoopsied the entire program, and maybe that's also something you can believe.
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Glad to see we are again back to 'but Hillary'.
Since we're playing this game I'll just add one.
Any mishandling of potentially classified information by Hillary pales in comparison to Ivanka and Jared being given top clearance over the objections of the intelligence agencies.
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On March 22 2019 06:30 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 06:04 Nouar wrote:On March 22 2019 05:57 Danglars wrote:On March 22 2019 05:29 Nouar wrote:Woops, it seems Ivanka and Jared are conducting official business on private email addresses, including WhatsApp to discuss sharing nuclear technology with Saudi Arabia. Well, I wonder if they will get a double standard from our dear republicans who were so outraged by HRC's email server ? (There is no talk of classified info, though discussing the sharing nuclear secrets is kinda sensitive diplomatic information I guess ? But Ivanka looks like she was NOT keeping records of official mails she received and did not answer, as she deleted them... Woops, reminds me of something ?) https://www.apnews.com/f73b8b3ff73c4e2ea1ea5e6537af041fTrump’s lawyer, Abbe Lowell, informed the committee late last year that Trump doesn’t preserve official emails she receives in her personal account if she doesn’t respond to them. Cummings says that appears to violate the Presidential Records Act. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” It also details the use of the messaging application WhatsApp by Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner and of personal email accounts by other former senior White House aides that Cummings says “raises additional security and federal records concerns.” Some of those communications involved a proposal to transfer U.S. nuclear power technology to Saudi Arabia. Lowell confirmed that Kushner, Ivanka Trump’s husband and a senior White House aide, uses WhatsApp to conduct official U.S. government business. That includes communicating with “people outside the United States,” though Lowell did not provide the identities of those involved. Lowell also would not tell the committee whether Kushner had ever used WhatsApp to discuss classified information. When asked, Lowell said, “That’s above my pay grade,” and referred questions to the White House and the National Security Council As always also, I am pleasantly surprised by the non-opinion section of Fox (well, it depends on which topics really), they sometimes manage to get some articles clearly not in favour of Trump. This one is a good example of putting him in a pretty bad light. https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/03/21/michael-dukakis-tank-photo-dem-blasts-trump-mocking-himI'm usually avoiding ALL opinion pieces of all news websites though, apart from Napolitano as it gives me good insight on what a true conservative (sometimes even worse than that since he's more libertarian) thinks, while being relatively impervious to bias regarding the idiot-in-chief's conduct. But just hours later, Lowell issued a letter of his own disputing Cummings’ characterization of some of his comments. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” Since she already has it set up to preserve records for all sent mail, doing the same for all received mail should be quite easy. She should be prosecuted if this is not complied with. Same with not forwarding and preserving all WhatsApp messages sent and received, documented with decrypted backups. You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Not exactly "she now already has it set up". Since 2017, she has changed her way of doing things, and now forwards incoming official mails to her official mailbox (well that is how I read it). Prior to that date, she pleaded ignorance, which is really funny seeing how they treated HRC. Ignorance, really ? :-D Well I'm not really expecting anything, as they already said "but it's not the same", people will argue there was no classified information, so it's not criminal (which I actually agree with, administrative sanctions are more than enough for this). I'll just wait and see is there is outrage or excuses over the deletion. Some other topics : Trump is using 2020 campaign money to spend in his own hotels, catering, legal services etc... ultimately going into his businesses. It was already the same in 2016, at least during the inauguration, and that would be utterly unacceptable for anyone else, but I guess it's lost in the background noise in this case. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-2020-election-donations-campaign-tower-new-york-a8833851.html?utm_source=reddit.comAnd since I'm "new" to US politics, I just stumbled about this one, which had me chuckle a little. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost. On December 14, 2009, CNN reported[14] that all 22 million missing emails had been found on backup tapes, and that the Obama Administration reached a settlement with two watchdog groups who had sued to obtain the emails. edit : sorry I missed some info in your post : You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Should I remind you that the deleted messages were from the server admin who previously didn't bother implementing a retention policy prior to the FOIA requests, and suddenly deleted the messages when the requests came in and he realised that the mails still existed ? (A really stupid behaviour, unrelated to HRC herself). And that the classified messages didn't have proper classification markings ? Missing them entirely or only having a "(c)" somewhere in the mail ? Which was one of the reasons they did not prosecute, since it would not stand in front of a court. A personal server is a little bit better security-wise, than using for example WhatsApp. The President assumed office in 2017. Ivanka is not a career civil servant. She had implemented a forwarding-preservation policy, now she just applies that to inbox too. Nothingburger.
She is a White House aid and required by law to preserve her communications, so unless they are forwarding the WhatsApp content, that isn't sufficient. We didn't make up some magical classification for her because she is the president's daughter and a chat app owned by Facebook. And its 2019, so they have had a while to figure this out. Furthermore, if she has a goverment account, there is no reason for her to be using a private one for goverment business at this point. Email is not rocket science, after all. It is extremely suspicious that this is all still going on and warrants a full investigation equal to the private email server investigation.
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On March 22 2019 06:30 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 06:04 Nouar wrote:On March 22 2019 05:57 Danglars wrote:On March 22 2019 05:29 Nouar wrote:Woops, it seems Ivanka and Jared are conducting official business on private email addresses, including WhatsApp to discuss sharing nuclear technology with Saudi Arabia. Well, I wonder if they will get a double standard from our dear republicans who were so outraged by HRC's email server ? (There is no talk of classified info, though discussing the sharing nuclear secrets is kinda sensitive diplomatic information I guess ? But Ivanka looks like she was NOT keeping records of official mails she received and did not answer, as she deleted them... Woops, reminds me of something ?) https://www.apnews.com/f73b8b3ff73c4e2ea1ea5e6537af041fTrump’s lawyer, Abbe Lowell, informed the committee late last year that Trump doesn’t preserve official emails she receives in her personal account if she doesn’t respond to them. Cummings says that appears to violate the Presidential Records Act. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” It also details the use of the messaging application WhatsApp by Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner and of personal email accounts by other former senior White House aides that Cummings says “raises additional security and federal records concerns.” Some of those communications involved a proposal to transfer U.S. nuclear power technology to Saudi Arabia. Lowell confirmed that Kushner, Ivanka Trump’s husband and a senior White House aide, uses WhatsApp to conduct official U.S. government business. That includes communicating with “people outside the United States,” though Lowell did not provide the identities of those involved. Lowell also would not tell the committee whether Kushner had ever used WhatsApp to discuss classified information. When asked, Lowell said, “That’s above my pay grade,” and referred questions to the White House and the National Security Council As always also, I am pleasantly surprised by the non-opinion section of Fox (well, it depends on which topics really), they sometimes manage to get some articles clearly not in favour of Trump. This one is a good example of putting him in a pretty bad light. https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/03/21/michael-dukakis-tank-photo-dem-blasts-trump-mocking-himI'm usually avoiding ALL opinion pieces of all news websites though, apart from Napolitano as it gives me good insight on what a true conservative (sometimes even worse than that since he's more libertarian) thinks, while being relatively impervious to bias regarding the idiot-in-chief's conduct. But just hours later, Lowell issued a letter of his own disputing Cummings’ characterization of some of his comments. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” Since she already has it set up to preserve records for all sent mail, doing the same for all received mail should be quite easy. She should be prosecuted if this is not complied with. Same with not forwarding and preserving all WhatsApp messages sent and received, documented with decrypted backups. You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Not exactly "she now already has it set up". Since 2017, she has changed her way of doing things, and now forwards incoming official mails to her official mailbox (well that is how I read it). Prior to that date, she pleaded ignorance, which is really funny seeing how they treated HRC. Ignorance, really ? :-D Well I'm not really expecting anything, as they already said "but it's not the same", people will argue there was no classified information, so it's not criminal (which I actually agree with, administrative sanctions are more than enough for this). I'll just wait and see is there is outrage or excuses over the deletion. Some other topics : Trump is using 2020 campaign money to spend in his own hotels, catering, legal services etc... ultimately going into his businesses. It was already the same in 2016, at least during the inauguration, and that would be utterly unacceptable for anyone else, but I guess it's lost in the background noise in this case. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-2020-election-donations-campaign-tower-new-york-a8833851.html?utm_source=reddit.comAnd since I'm "new" to US politics, I just stumbled about this one, which had me chuckle a little. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost. On December 14, 2009, CNN reported[14] that all 22 million missing emails had been found on backup tapes, and that the Obama Administration reached a settlement with two watchdog groups who had sued to obtain the emails. edit : sorry I missed some info in your post : You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Should I remind you that the deleted messages were from the server admin who previously didn't bother implementing a retention policy prior to the FOIA requests, and suddenly deleted the messages when the requests came in and he realised that the mails still existed ? (A really stupid behaviour, unrelated to HRC herself). And that the classified messages didn't have proper classification markings ? Missing them entirely or only having a "(c)" somewhere in the mail ? Which was one of the reasons they did not prosecute, since it would not stand in front of a court. A personal server is a little bit better security-wise, than using for example WhatsApp. The President assumed office in 2017. Ivanka is not a career civil servant. She had implemented a forwarding-preservation policy, now she just applies that to inbox too. Nothingburger. Clinton herself claimed to use a team of lawyers to sort through which of the 60k emails were work related. That was Hillary's explanation to why they were deleted, despite being under subpoena. Any changes to the excuse blaming some rogue server admin should be dismissed and ridiculed. I'm sure BleachBit was an accidental server admin thing as well. Yes, career politicians and civil servants with years seeing classified documents should know to look for (C) on the mail and only use secure servers to transmit and view. Good-old long time aide to the Clintons Sidney Blumenthal received some of these to advise Clinton on sensitive matters. You're choosing to make her as dumb as some first-year aide. Clinton herself told the FBI she thought they were alphabetical markings, and denied ever having received training. Apparently, the State Department whoopsied the entire program, and maybe that's also something you can believe.
Oh, then I have to unearth this for the second time now :
https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/Hillary R. Clinton Part 01 of 30/view
Page 11 : "While State policy during Clinton's tenure required that "day to day operations be conducted on an authorized IS", according to the BISM, there was no restriction on the use of personal email accounts for official business. However, State employees were cautioned about security and records retention regarding the use of personal email."
Page 14 : "Investigations identified hundreds of email sent by Abedin and others requiring him to print document for Clinton. Some emails were determined to contain information at the confidential level." (no mention of markings here, and were not sent by HRC. Lots of others were of course, but not the printed ones, and the guy had an accreditation)
Page 18 : (after producing all the records, filtered between work/nonwork by the attorneys, for all the FOIA requests about Benghazi and others) "in December 2014, Clinton decided she no longer needed access to any of her emails older than 60days. Therefore, Mills instructed () to modify the retention policy on her account to reflect this change. However, according to (), he did not implement this change until March 2015."
"On March 2nd 2015, the NYT published a piece (...). On March 3rd, the House committee requested preservation and production of all medias and documents.
Page 19 : "Between March 25-31st (after a meeting), he realized he had not made the retention policy changes requested in December. (...) In a follow up interview with FBI on May 3rd 2016, he indicated he believed he had a "oh shit" moment and deleted the archives and .pst and used Bleachbit. FBI found traces of these deletions. (...) Clinton and Mills said they were unaware any deletions occurred in March 2015.
More on this post : https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27253938
About classifications markings, AGAIN, let me remind that I deal with that shit every day with military and civilian authorities and we have to enforce addons like Classify to FORCE people to put proper markings on their mails, otherwise it's the wild west. Emails with a wrong classification to a wrong recipient or with attachments scanned and OCRed for keywords are forcefully blocked. I even had to disable the (redacted, bad idea to name it) new headquarters printer system that bypassed all the checks while faxing from them.
These people are security newbies, ALL OF THEM.
Again, it is clear there was improper handling of these classified emails, however there are questionable markings, and no proven dissemination to unauthorized people, so it is pretty hard to prosecute and this kind of thing is usually dealt with using administrative sanctions, not prosecution.
You won't make me believe that Ivanka can ignore the preservation of records seeing how they trashed HRC. She directly deleted herself work-related emails in her inbox that she had not answered to. She forwards them now (after around 9 monthes serving). It IS a nothingburger to me, but she cannot use ignorance as an excuse :-D
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On March 22 2019 04:43 IgnE wrote:
no of course i dont think that we arent witnessing tribalism. and now that youve admitted you dont care about anything a MAGAer might say, we can close the tribalism circle for both sides
In my view in order to bothsides something you need some sort of equivalency between the two sides. Is that something you would agree with, and is that something that you think is happening?
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On March 22 2019 07:46 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 04:43 IgnE wrote:
no of course i dont think that we arent witnessing tribalism. and now that youve admitted you dont care about anything a MAGAer might say, we can close the tribalism circle for both sides In my view in order to bothsides something you need some sort of equivalency between the two sides. Is that something you would agree with, and is that something that you think is happening?
sure. outside of math, equivalency is always figural
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On March 22 2019 07:01 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 06:30 Danglars wrote:On March 22 2019 06:04 Nouar wrote:On March 22 2019 05:57 Danglars wrote:On March 22 2019 05:29 Nouar wrote:Woops, it seems Ivanka and Jared are conducting official business on private email addresses, including WhatsApp to discuss sharing nuclear technology with Saudi Arabia. Well, I wonder if they will get a double standard from our dear republicans who were so outraged by HRC's email server ? (There is no talk of classified info, though discussing the sharing nuclear secrets is kinda sensitive diplomatic information I guess ? But Ivanka looks like she was NOT keeping records of official mails she received and did not answer, as she deleted them... Woops, reminds me of something ?) https://www.apnews.com/f73b8b3ff73c4e2ea1ea5e6537af041fTrump’s lawyer, Abbe Lowell, informed the committee late last year that Trump doesn’t preserve official emails she receives in her personal account if she doesn’t respond to them. Cummings says that appears to violate the Presidential Records Act. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” It also details the use of the messaging application WhatsApp by Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner and of personal email accounts by other former senior White House aides that Cummings says “raises additional security and federal records concerns.” Some of those communications involved a proposal to transfer U.S. nuclear power technology to Saudi Arabia. Lowell confirmed that Kushner, Ivanka Trump’s husband and a senior White House aide, uses WhatsApp to conduct official U.S. government business. That includes communicating with “people outside the United States,” though Lowell did not provide the identities of those involved. Lowell also would not tell the committee whether Kushner had ever used WhatsApp to discuss classified information. When asked, Lowell said, “That’s above my pay grade,” and referred questions to the White House and the National Security Council As always also, I am pleasantly surprised by the non-opinion section of Fox (well, it depends on which topics really), they sometimes manage to get some articles clearly not in favour of Trump. This one is a good example of putting him in a pretty bad light. https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/03/21/michael-dukakis-tank-photo-dem-blasts-trump-mocking-himI'm usually avoiding ALL opinion pieces of all news websites though, apart from Napolitano as it gives me good insight on what a true conservative (sometimes even worse than that since he's more libertarian) thinks, while being relatively impervious to bias regarding the idiot-in-chief's conduct. But just hours later, Lowell issued a letter of his own disputing Cummings’ characterization of some of his comments. Lowell said he was referring to Trump’s email use before September 2017 and that he told committee staff that now “she always forwards official business to her White House account.” Since she already has it set up to preserve records for all sent mail, doing the same for all received mail should be quite easy. She should be prosecuted if this is not complied with. Same with not forwarding and preserving all WhatsApp messages sent and received, documented with decrypted backups. You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Not exactly "she now already has it set up". Since 2017, she has changed her way of doing things, and now forwards incoming official mails to her official mailbox (well that is how I read it). Prior to that date, she pleaded ignorance, which is really funny seeing how they treated HRC. Ignorance, really ? :-D Well I'm not really expecting anything, as they already said "but it's not the same", people will argue there was no classified information, so it's not criminal (which I actually agree with, administrative sanctions are more than enough for this). I'll just wait and see is there is outrage or excuses over the deletion. Some other topics : Trump is using 2020 campaign money to spend in his own hotels, catering, legal services etc... ultimately going into his businesses. It was already the same in 2016, at least during the inauguration, and that would be utterly unacceptable for anyone else, but I guess it's lost in the background noise in this case. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-2020-election-donations-campaign-tower-new-york-a8833851.html?utm_source=reddit.comAnd since I'm "new" to US politics, I just stumbled about this one, which had me chuckle a little. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost. On December 14, 2009, CNN reported[14] that all 22 million missing emails had been found on backup tapes, and that the Obama Administration reached a settlement with two watchdog groups who had sued to obtain the emails. edit : sorry I missed some info in your post : You can expect a comparable amount of outrage if they don't turn over FOIA requests and instead delete the messages. You can expect comparable outrage if they're using personal email accounts on personal servers to send and receive and print classified info, as Hillary did. Should I remind you that the deleted messages were from the server admin who previously didn't bother implementing a retention policy prior to the FOIA requests, and suddenly deleted the messages when the requests came in and he realised that the mails still existed ? (A really stupid behaviour, unrelated to HRC herself). And that the classified messages didn't have proper classification markings ? Missing them entirely or only having a "(c)" somewhere in the mail ? Which was one of the reasons they did not prosecute, since it would not stand in front of a court. A personal server is a little bit better security-wise, than using for example WhatsApp. The President assumed office in 2017. Ivanka is not a career civil servant. She had implemented a forwarding-preservation policy, now she just applies that to inbox too. Nothingburger. Clinton herself claimed to use a team of lawyers to sort through which of the 60k emails were work related. That was Hillary's explanation to why they were deleted, despite being under subpoena. Any changes to the excuse blaming some rogue server admin should be dismissed and ridiculed. I'm sure BleachBit was an accidental server admin thing as well. Yes, career politicians and civil servants with years seeing classified documents should know to look for (C) on the mail and only use secure servers to transmit and view. Good-old long time aide to the Clintons Sidney Blumenthal received some of these to advise Clinton on sensitive matters. You're choosing to make her as dumb as some first-year aide. Clinton herself told the FBI she thought they were alphabetical markings, and denied ever having received training. Apparently, the State Department whoopsied the entire program, and maybe that's also something you can believe. Oh, then I have to unearth this for the second time now : https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/Hillary R. Clinton Part 01 of 30/viewPage 11 : "While State policy during Clinton's tenure required that "day to day operations be conducted on an authorized IS", according to the BISM, there was no restriction on the use of personal email accounts for official business. However, State employees were cautioned about security and records retention regarding the use of personal email." Page 14 : "Investigations identified hundreds of email sent by Abedin and others requiring him to print document for Clinton. Some emails were determined to contain information at the confidential level." (no mention of markings here, and were not sent by HRC. Lots of others were of course, but not the printed ones, and the guy had an accreditation) Page 18 : (after producing all the records, filtered between work/nonwork by the attorneys, for all the FOIA requests about Benghazi and others) "in December 2014, Clinton decided she no longer needed access to any of her emails older than 60days. Therefore, Mills instructed () to modify the retention policy on her account to reflect this change. However, according to (), he did not implement this change until March 2015." "On March 2nd 2015, the NYT published a piece (...). On March 3rd, the House committee requested preservation and production of all medias and documents. Page 19 : "Between March 25-31st (after a meeting), he realized he had not made the retention policy changes requested in December. (...) In a follow up interview with FBI on May 3rd 2016, he indicated he believed he had a "oh shit" moment and deleted the archives and .pst and used Bleachbit. FBI found traces of these deletions. (...) Clinton and Mills said they were unaware any deletions occurred in March 2015. More on this post : https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27253938About classifications markings, AGAIN, let me remind that I deal with that shit every day with military and civilian authorities and we have to enforce addons like Classify to FORCE people to put proper markings on their mails, otherwise it's the wild west. Emails with a wrong classification to a wrong recipient or with attachments scanned and OCRed for keywords are forcefully blocked. I even had to disable the (redacted, bad idea to name it) new headquarters printer system that bypassed all the checks while faxing from them. These people are security newbies, ALL OF THEM. Again, it is clear there was improper handling of these classified emails, however there are questionable markings, and no proven dissemination to unauthorized people, so it is pretty hard to prosecute and this kind of thing is usually dealt with using administrative sanctions, not prosecution. You won't make me believe that Ivanka can ignore the preservation of records seeing how they trashed HRC. She directly deleted herself work-related emails in her inbox that she had not answered to. She forwards them now (after around 9 monthes serving). It IS a nothingburger to me, but she cannot use ignorance as an excuse :-D
Yeah she claimed she and her lawyers had separated out all the work emails and deleted tens of thousands under subpoena. This was her testimony to the public when she desperately wanted to be elected president and put her oopsies behind her. It wasn't that everything was kosher, she missed the (C)'s, and some dolt screwed a retention policy. Which, in your view, is a claim she should've advanced. BleachBit is not an accidental program they ran thinking it was notepad.
I appreciate all the shit you go through with classified clearances and numbskulls and how we should really move to systems you like and support.
Oh, and you do realize the FBI interview was not under oath, and the lawyer present with her is also complicit in reviewing and deleting emails subject to subpoena?
Fired FBI agent Peter Strzok told Congress last year that the agency "did not have access" to Clinton Foundation emails that were on Hillary Clinton's private server because of a consent agreement "negotiated between the Department of Justice attorneys and counsel for Clinton."
That agreement was revealed in newly released congressional transcripts from Strzok's closed-door testimony at the House Judiciary Committee on June 27, 2018.
When asked by then-majority general counsel Zachary Somers if “the Clinton Foundation was on the server”, Strzok testified that he believed it was “on one of the servers, if not the others.” But Strzok stressed that due to an agreement between the DOJ and Clinton, they were not allowed to search Clinton Foundation emails for information that could help in their investigation.
Washington Examiner
She negotiated to block FBI access.
Pivoting back to your laughable "where's the comparable outrage" angle for a minute, I never saw any attempt for Clinton to automatically copy her official state department email on all exchanges. It's not that everything sent CC'd the record-keeping address, but some emails seen and not replied to slip by. Clinton had no system, and she knew it, even as she's passing on classified documents to her buddy Blumenthal to see nothing potentially classified and give his guess see the classified documents and advise her on what to do. The whole thing stinks.
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On March 22 2019 08:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 07:46 Nebuchad wrote:On March 22 2019 04:43 IgnE wrote:
no of course i dont think that we arent witnessing tribalism. and now that youve admitted you dont care about anything a MAGAer might say, we can close the tribalism circle for both sides In my view in order to bothsides something you need some sort of equivalency between the two sides. Is that something you would agree with, and is that something that you think is happening? sure. outside of math, equivalency is always figural
Granted we don't have a democratic president who lies and "changes his mind" as consistently to fully make the comparison, but it's extremely hard to reach that level of not caring about the facts. From the incomplete data we have I find the less likely conclusion would be that democrats are at the same level, not that they aren't.
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That's not news Gahlo. Just another day in our lives. Can a mod ban Gahlo for low content posting? /s
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United States43403 Posts
Robbing a movers truck by loading up all the electronics into a getaway house. It’s the perfect crime.
What surprises me is that there is a mechanism for the police to refuse to take complaints. Not acting on complaints is one thing but point blank refusing is just bizarre.
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On March 22 2019 10:12 KwarK wrote:
Robbing a movers truck by loading up all the electronics into a getaway house. It’s the perfect crime.
What surprises me is that there is a mechanism for the police to refuse to take complaints. Not acting on complaints is one thing but point blank refusing is just bizarre.
From the comments of the thread I found the story in, sometimes filing a complaint isn't made easy.
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Mueller report "soon" now,i can not wait lol. It will all fizzle out into nothing I think.
Its the last straw for the democrats who have any hope of removing trump before his term ends.
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United States43403 Posts
It doesn’t make too much sense to try to convince Republicans to impeach if you can just convict through normal legal proceedings after the end of his term.
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Republicans have made it abundantly clear that they don't care about propriety anymore. They have gone into full-on tribal mode, towing the party line harder than ever before and licking Trump's boots every step of the way. So with them still holding the Senate, impeachment both doesn't make sense and isn't a real option. It is a political mechanism by nature.
That said, the report can still full well hold some damning information if the blinders are taken off impeachment mode.
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EPT
