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On January 04 2019 21:57 Velr wrote: GH mainly is and was just a broken record. He has 3 answers:
Abolish the (racist) police. Horrible democrats. Evil corporate librerals/media.
Pick the most fitting answer out of these 3 and you can simulate a discussion with GH for any given topic, just remind yourself to also act like you are 100% right, be openly hostile to anyone that isn't 100% on board with you and act like everyone else is a moron that has no clue about "life".
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
if there’s any lesson any single person in this thread has learned, it is that generalizations only serve to make the generalizer look lazy, and, generally wrong.
i’m not sure a critique of a poster who isn’t interested in this thread serves as a proper topic.
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
Implying all progressives argue in the fashion GH does. (He was pretty toxic, but so is that "people don't like progressives because.. " line.) Implying that a handful of progressives who didn't vote Hillary as opposed to tens of millions of conservative votes and a weird approximation of a democratic voting system brought the US Trump. Mkay.
On January 04 2019 09:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 04 2019 08:46 iamthedave wrote:
On January 04 2019 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:
On January 04 2019 01:08 iamthedave wrote: Over on the other thread, Greenhorizons feels the Democrats are conceding tons of ground to Trump; be this so? All I'm seeing from (un)merry old England is stuff saying the Dems are holding fast.
Do we really need to be taking ideas from other threads to discuss here? Kinda defeats the entire purpose of different threads.
If I want a perspective other than DEMOCRATS ARE THE WORST LOL THEY'RE THE WORST WORSTEST WORST IN THE WORLD TRUMP IS WINNING SOOOOOO HARD then yes, kind of. Pretty much all the prime voices in the other thread are direct Trump supporters or despise the Democrats enough that it makes no difference.
When those guys are saying repeatedly that the Democrats are conceding ground to Trump and I can't find evidence of it myself, it behooves me to ask the other side.
Well they started a thread on their own because no one was really interested to discuss with them. Are you surprised that Danglar and GH don’t need any facts or even any rational argument to scream all day long that the Dems suck? I mean, that’s the only one thing GH has been saying in years, and he started that thread.
Actually GH started that thread because he kept getting repeatedly thread banned. I think this time permamently. So he made a safe space for himself, where he can practice having a conversation. Of course the rest of the posters joined because they were also banned form the US pol thread. It's not like they had a choice if they want to express hatred for a political party, becuase they couldn't choose do it civilly here. People were very interested to discuss topics with them, but in GH case, it was just him screaming "abolish the police" and in Danglars case it was screeching about some twaddle and denying what he wrote, and denying other people's opinions as valid.
i think if you did any research you would find few(exactly 3, and only temporarily at that) of the posters in that thread are banned from this one. but don’t let facts get in your way of insulting people, ironically about being uncivil. that’s certainly not hypocritical. 🤷🏻♂️
3 is a pretty good number of originally of the most frequent posters there.
On January 04 2019 21:57 Velr wrote: GH mainly is and was just a broken record. He has 3 answers:
Abolish the (racist) police. Horrible democrats. Evil corporate librerals/media.
Pick the most fitting answer out of these 3 and you can simulate a discussion with GH for any given topic, just remind yourself to also act like you are 100% right, be openly hostile to anyone that isn't 100% on board with you and act like everyone else is a moron that has no clue about "life".
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
I thought the types that got Trump into power were the morons who voted for Trump. Sure, blame progressives for it if you want, just like doctors are responsible for cancer and firefighters are at fault for all the fire.
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
Implying all progressives argue in the fashion GH does. (He was pretty toxic, but so is that "people don't like progressives because.. " line.) Implying that a handful of progressives who didn't vote Hillary as opposed to tens of millions of conservative votes and a weird approximation of a democratic voting system brought the US Trump. Mkay.
Behaviour of the worst progressives (or their worst points) makes undecides/independants less likely to vote for the candidate generally seen as «on the progressive side» or even drives them towards the other. Its really not a stretch that this stuff has turned «unhappy democrat voters» away from the party into not voting or even going republican just out of spite.
I vote hard left in Switzerland, thats very, very far to the left from what you would call mainstream democrat. The only people that constantly make me overthink this are the „true progressives“. I’m interested in „can do“ leftist policy, not fairy tails or agendas driven by issues <1% of the populance has minor issues with, there are bigger and more important fish to fry. Yet, somehow that makes me right wing in the eyes of many progressives, which is plain stupid. Having to side with these morons, makes me wanna puke/vote for something else (luckily for them, there isn’t anything appealing - yet).
On January 04 2019 21:57 Velr wrote: GH mainly is and was just a broken record. He has 3 answers:
Abolish the (racist) police. Horrible democrats. Evil corporate librerals/media.
Pick the most fitting answer out of these 3 and you can simulate a discussion with GH for any given topic, just remind yourself to also act like you are 100% right, be openly hostile to anyone that isn't 100% on board with you and act like everyone else is a moron that has no clue about "life".
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
I thought the types that got Trump into power were the morons who voted for Trump. Sure, blame progressives for it if you want, just like doctors are responsible for cancer and firefighters are at fault for all the fire.
You wouldn't blame the firefighters who went to the bar if an entirely beatable fire got out of control due to their absence leading to a lack of manpower at the scene? Worse, they knew the fire was coming due to months of news reports where the fire showcased how it was going to burn things, but they went to the bar anyways. Said firefighters are not at fault for the fire starting but hold blame for not stopping it when they could have, especially given how close the firefighters on scene came to beating it.
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
Implying all progressives argue in the fashion GH does. (He was pretty toxic, but so is that "people don't like progressives because.. " line.) Implying that a handful of progressives who didn't vote Hillary as opposed to tens of millions of conservative votes and a weird approximation of a democratic voting system brought the US Trump. Mkay.
Behaviour of the worst progressives (or their worst points) makes undecides/independants less likely to vote for the candidate generally seen as «on the progressive side» or even drives them towards the other. Its really not a stretch that this stuff has turned «unhappy democrat voters» away from the party into not voting or even going republican just out of spite.
I vote hard left in Switzerland, thats very, very far to the left from what you would call mainstream democrat. The only people that constantly make me overthink this are the „true progressives“. I’m interested in „can do“ leftist policy, not fairy tails or agendas driven by issues <1% of the populance has minor issues with, there are bigger and more important fish to fry. Yet, somehow that makes me right wing in the eyes of many progressives, which is plain stupid. Having to side with these morons, makes me wanna puke/vote for something else (luckily for them, there isn’t anything appealing - yet).
Is the first part not true of literally every political group? To say people don't like progressives because of people like GH is the sort of reasoning that starts to reflect terribly on that person the moment you apply the general principal anywhere else. I can't control the behavior of the loudest and most aggressive people whose politics align (mostly) with mine.
Sure, it isn't a stretch, but shit fam "not a stretch" doesn't constitute an argument or evidence. There were many factors in Trump winning the election, blaming it on progressives is just you grinding an axe.
Yeah that whole last paragraph (especially without any substantiating examples, what would be "can do" and what would be fairy-tale, for example?) is just axe-grinding. Every major party will have idiots, by virtue of how many people as a whole are idiots.
There is a subset of progressives that refuse to give up fight with the Democratic party as their enemy, even though they are making strides to take over the party and move it left. The folks that use lines like “You didn’t care about kids in cages when Obama did it.” Or imply that democratic voters are only made now because of Trump. That is just using being progressive as a launching point for smug superiority and people are not very tolerant over it these days. This is not unique to this thread either. I know more than a few people in real life like this. But they are slightly less annoying because I can interrupt them when they get on their bullshit.
Third party voting is another topic all together. I don’t blame people for voting for a third party, but I do believe that their political theory is flawed. The conservatives, gun lobby and religious right have proven that political power of voting for a candidate that might not believe what they believe. Voting for a third party isn’t an effective way to bring about political change in the US system.
On January 04 2019 05:53 Plansix wrote: Watch some of the swearing in and the contrast between the Democrats and Republicans is striking. All white dudes in blue and black on one side and a lot of women in colorful clothing on the other. And one of the new Muslim women House Rep’s son dabbed for a photo right in the well of the House, so it’s already 1000% better than anything done under Paul Ryan.
Also, twitter is frothing with conservatives and others sharing this video of Ocasio Cortez from high school doing a dance from the Breakfast Club with her teenage friends. It has to be some of the creepiest and saddest shit I’ve seen in a while. And apparently dancing is now communist. Call Kevin Bacon.
Speaking of swearing in, ran into this in a reddit thread about the aforementioned lady.
On January 04 2019 22:46 Plansix wrote: There is a subset of progressives that refuse to give up fight with the Democratic party as their enemy, even though they are making strides to take over the party and move it left. The folks that use lines like “You didn’t care about kids in cages when Obama did it.” Or imply that democratic voters are only made now because of Trump. That is just using being progressive as a launching point for smug superiority and people are not very tolerant over it these days. This is not unique to this thread either. I know more than a few people in real life like this. But they are slightly less annoying because I can interrupt them when they get on their bullshit.
Third party voting is another topic all together. I don’t blame people for voting for a third party, but I do believe that their political theory is flawed. The conservatives, gun lobby and religious right have proven that political power of voting for a candidate that might not believe what they believe. Voting for a third party isn’t an effective way to bring about political change in the US system.
It depends what changes you are aiming for, surely. I can will visualize a situation where somebody has voted for major parties all of their life and the changes they were promised failed to materialize, or things even got worse - no matter which party they voted for. Voting independent makes sense when both major parties are working actively against your interests, no?
On January 04 2019 21:57 Velr wrote: GH mainly is and was just a broken record. He has 3 answers:
Abolish the (racist) police. Horrible democrats. Evil corporate librerals/media.
Pick the most fitting answer out of these 3 and you can simulate a discussion with GH for any given topic, just remind yourself to also act like you are 100% right, be openly hostile to anyone that isn't 100% on board with you and act like everyone else is a moron that has no clue about "life".
He is a prime example of why people don't like progressives, even people that agree with them on most issues can't fatom that bs for too long. These types also brought you Trump... What a win.
I thought the types that got Trump into power were the morons who voted for Trump. Sure, blame progressives for it if you want, just like doctors are responsible for cancer and firefighters are at fault for all the fire.
You wouldn't blame the firefighters who went to the bar if an entirely beatable fire got out of control due to their absence leading to a lack of manpower at the scene? Worse, they knew the fire was coming due to months of news reports where the fire showcased how it was going to burn things, but they went to the bar anyways. Said firefighters are not at fault for the fire starting but hold blame for not stopping it when they could have, especially given how close the firefighters on scene came to beating it.
You'd probably want to blame the guy who started the fire first of all, but that guy gets off scot free on this forum.
On January 04 2019 22:46 Plansix wrote: There is a subset of progressives that refuse to give up fight with the Democratic party as their enemy, even though they are making strides to take over the party and move it left. The folks that use lines like “You didn’t care about kids in cages when Obama did it.” Or imply that democratic voters are only made now because of Trump. That is just using being progressive as a launching point for smug superiority and people are not very tolerant over it these days. This is not unique to this thread either. I know more than a few people in real life like this. But they are slightly less annoying because I can interrupt them when they get on their bullshit.
Third party voting is another topic all together. I don’t blame people for voting for a third party, but I do believe that their political theory is flawed. The conservatives, gun lobby and religious right have proven that political power of voting for a candidate that might not believe what they believe. Voting for a third party isn’t an effective way to bring about political change in the US system.
It depends what changes you are aiming for, surely. I can will visualize a situation where somebody has voted for major parties all of their life and the changes they were promised failed to materialize, or things even got worse - no matter which party they voted for. Voting independent makes sense when both major parties are working actively against your interests, no?
I find that people who are disillusioned with a political party often do not vote in the primaries. But in the case where they have been an active member for their entire lives, switching to a third party would be an appropriate action if they simply want to protest. But if the voter needs some sort of specific political action to address their problem, voting third party makes no sense.
On January 04 2019 23:02 farvacola wrote: Wait, who gets off scot-free?
Trump voters. I've seen everyone blamed for Trump on here except for the people that vote for Trump. The following is a list of people for whom "Its exactly this behaviour that caused Trump to get elected":
People who call other people racist, have ever called anyone racist, or wants to discuss racism Leftists who voted for Hilary Leftists who didn't vote for Hilary People who want equal rights for transexuals People who are in favour of deplatforming others Anyone who isn't triggered by the concept of a safe space
Given that at least some of the folks previously mentioned left for the other thread precisely because no one was swallowing their “im a trump voter, blame everyone but me” bullshit, I don’t follow.
Blaming people for Trump isn’t productive. It won’t change anything. At worst it is an annoying discussion that will never have any resolution.
Edit: Fav also has a point. The folks who supported Trump have pretty much left the discussion because they don’t want to try an defend Trump’s administration.
On January 04 2019 23:16 farvacola wrote: Given that at least some of the folks previously mentioned left for the other thread precisely because no one was swallowing their “im a trump voter, blame everyone but me” bullshit, I don’t follow.
I had thought so, but then velr spoke up and proved that wrong.
On January 04 2019 22:46 Plansix wrote: There is a subset of progressives that refuse to give up fight with the Democratic party as their enemy, even though they are making strides to take over the party and move it left. The folks that use lines like “You didn’t care about kids in cages when Obama did it.” Or imply that democratic voters are only made now because of Trump. That is just using being progressive as a launching point for smug superiority and people are not very tolerant over it these days. This is not unique to this thread either. I know more than a few people in real life like this. But they are slightly less annoying because I can interrupt them when they get on their bullshit.
Third party voting is another topic all together. I don’t blame people for voting for a third party, but I do believe that their political theory is flawed. The conservatives, gun lobby and religious right have proven that political power of voting for a candidate that might not believe what they believe. Voting for a third party isn’t an effective way to bring about political change in the US system.
It depends what changes you are aiming for, surely. I can will visualize a situation where somebody has voted for major parties all of their life and the changes they were promised failed to materialize, or things even got worse - no matter which party they voted for. Voting independent makes sense when both major parties are working actively against your interests, no?
In a 2 party system it really doesn't, and that's why the system is so stupid. The Tea Party showed what you do when neither party is doing what you want, you get people into Congress and pressure power from there. It doesn't work for the Presidency once your past the primary's.
On January 04 2019 23:17 Plansix wrote: Blaming people for Trump isn’t productive. It won’t change anything. At worst it is an annoying discussion that will never have any resolution.
Edit: Fav also has a point. The folks who supported Trump have pretty much left the discussion because they don’t want to try an defend Trump’s administration.
I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt for 2016, but everyone is on notice for 2020 as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who sees what he is doing now, especially progressives, and still chooses to either vote for him or not vote for his Dem challenger (assuming the challenger isnt Hitler incarnate), will get plenty of blame from me.
On January 04 2019 23:17 Plansix wrote: Blaming people for Trump isn’t productive. It won’t change anything. At worst it is an annoying discussion that will never have any resolution.
Edit: Fav also has a point. The folks who supported Trump have pretty much left the discussion because they don’t want to try an defend Trump’s administration.
I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt for 2016, but everyone is on notice for 2020 as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who sees what he is doing now, especially progressives, and still chooses to either vote for him or not vote for his Dem challenger (assuming the challenger isnt Hitler incarnate), will get plenty of blame from me.
*queue someone comparing Hitler and Hillary non-ironically*
EPT
