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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1015

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24793 Posts
January 02 2019 01:51 GMT
#20281
Most police and firefighters are not federal and are not directly affected. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS, collects taxes) is mostly in a state of shutdown. State and City tax collectors are not directly affected. Military personnel do not get paid but report to work. They get paid whatever they are owed after the shutdown ends. Federal civilians are classified either as essential, or not. If they are essential, they report to work without pay. When the shutdown ends, those essential civilians may get paid by an act of Congress, but it is not guaranteed. Non-essential federal civilians are furloughed and just don't report to work. Similarly, they may get paid for the shutdown days by Congress after the shutdown ends. Essential federal civilians who have scheduled leave during the shutdown must cancel their leave and report to work. Federal civilians who are already on leave when the shutdown starts are automatically furloughed regardless of if they are considered essential. Government spending on essential things (ammo) is typically allowed to continue during the shutdown.

There is no good reason to have this problem. It should get fixed.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 02 2019 02:32 GMT
#20282
HUD, Dousing and Urband Development agency is shut down. They insure a lot of home loans. With that agency closed, any closing or home sale insured by HUD could fall through. My firm is currently trying to find out if a bunch of closings we are working on will get extensions. And that is just one agency.

So the idea that this only impacts federal workers is simply wrong.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-02 02:41:42
January 02 2019 02:41 GMT
#20283
It's pretty clear that the government workers, mostly middle class, not living paycheck to paycheck, for the most part only suffer minor annoyance because of delayed pay. It is, indeed, civilians who rely upon these agencies to act in a timely manner that suffer the real consequences.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 02 2019 02:50 GMT
#20284
There are more than a few stories about recent hires being hung out to dry by the pay freeze. I’m reluctant to believe it is that simple.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-02 04:37:29
January 02 2019 04:30 GMT
#20285
The democrats are removing a bunch of the freedom caucuses favorite toys when they take power. You won’t hear any debt ceiling crises or fears that the country will default on its debt.

There is are also a couple rules making it harder to start the process to remove a speaker of the house, again to prevent trouble makes like Meadows from trying to stage leadership fights from the minority.

So far, January 3rd looks like fun. Oh, and Romney wrote something silly.

Edit: I was a bit unfair to Romney, he at least has enough spine to call Trump racist. Which is more than any of the current Republican Senators have done. But we will have to see if he backs it up in the next congress. But considering he is in there until 2024, there is a chance he won’t be kissing McConnels or Trumps ring.

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44242 Posts
January 02 2019 04:38 GMT
#20286
On January 02 2019 11:41 IgnE wrote:
It's pretty clear that the government workers, mostly middle class, not living paycheck to paycheck, for the most part only suffer minor annoyance because of delayed pay. It is, indeed, civilians who rely upon these agencies to act in a timely manner that suffer the real consequences.

Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24793 Posts
January 02 2019 04:46 GMT
#20287
It's worth noting that federal civilian pay varies a lot by position. Here is the GS pay scale which many (not all) federal civilians use:

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/18Tables/html/GS.aspx

Also, I didn't address this before, but as Plansix has mentioned, many government services are suspended during shutdowns, with his example of HUD being just one of many ways Americans are hurt. I'm sure there will be some articles detailing what happened during the shutdown.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
January 02 2019 12:31 GMT
#20288
Federal contract workers, especially those employed by GSA, the federal building manager, are very likely to live paycheck to paycheck and they're some of the folks being hardest hit. Some may not even qualify for retroactive pay, depending on their contract.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
January 02 2019 14:45 GMT
#20289
What’s the take on Romney’s anti-Trump op-ed in Wapo? Will he actually take a principled stance as a Senator or is this merely another bang before a whimper a la Flake and Corker?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-02 15:27:44
January 02 2019 15:03 GMT
#20290
After Flake and Corker were all talk, but then basically supported everything the administration did, it is tough to take the op-ed seriously. Romney will need to do more than that and apply pressure to the administration by breaking from the Republican ranks to extract concessions. He can’t be rubber stamping judges one day and then claim he opposes Trump’s concentration camp of migrant 15,000 kids the next. The time to resist that was the day before when he has the political power to do so. In 2019, talk is beyond cheap. It is effectively worthless.

Edit: it appears the RNC is concerned about Romney’s op-Ed, which makes me wonder if there are more senators might are close to jumping on the “fuck Trump” train.

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22519 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-02 15:42:00
January 02 2019 15:39 GMT
#20291
Talk is cheap, and right after he gets his job secured for 4 years, but it rings especially hollow when he focuses on Matthis leaving and Trumps actions in the last month.
Sounds a lot like the problem was Trump withdrawing from Syria and not all the other shit he has done.

And no he isn't going to break rank when he talks about a balanced budget. (love how that is back the minute Republicans lose control of the House, where was their balanced budget when they signed on to a debt increase to give corporations a tax cut).
Meet the new shit, same as the old shit.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 02 2019 17:46 GMT
#20292
On January 02 2019 23:45 farvacola wrote:
What’s the take on Romney’s anti-Trump op-ed in Wapo? Will he actually take a principled stance as a Senator or is this merely another bang before a whimper a la Flake and Corker?

I think he's going to essentially be a McCain with a conscious that extends beyond anything involving the military. He will represent the ways conservatism can be someehat dignified. He'll never get over his disdain for the poor, but he will speak against the heinous stuff that gives Steve Miller a boner.

I think he will be a lot less of a party line vote than his predecessor.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 02 2019 17:58 GMT
#20293
Romney's disdain for the poor is equal the rest of the GOP leadership. Don't expect much from the man on domestic policy. He was only mildly tolerable as a governor with a strong Democratic legislature to keep his bullshit in check.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
January 02 2019 18:34 GMT
#20294
Word is that Dreamers for wall money is back on the table. IIRC, the Dems offered 25b in wall money last year for Dreamer protection, which Trump turned down. If they can get real, tangible protections for the Dreamers, I'm inclined to say give him his 5b and run. The wall will probably end up as a logistical and political disaster anyways so it seems like a win-win in that sense.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
January 02 2019 18:42 GMT
#20295
I like the optics of that choice, let’s hope it sticks. I’d also like to see the Dems sneak in that federal pay raise, but I won’t get my hopes up.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 02 2019 18:50 GMT
#20296
5 billion seems like a cheap price to pay to sign DACA into law and put an end to using them as political leverage. I could swallow that pill.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
January 02 2019 19:09 GMT
#20297
stephen miller will go fully bald if daca is passed as part of a deal.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
January 02 2019 19:41 GMT
#20298
On January 02 2019 21:31 farvacola wrote:
Federal contract workers, especially those employed by GSA, the federal building manager, are very likely to live paycheck to paycheck and they're some of the folks being hardest hit. Some may not even qualify for retroactive pay, depending on their contract.


He will vote 100% down the line for every Trump nominee and legislative initiative. But he will use his pleasant sounding Op-Eds to book friendly interviews on sunday 'News' shows on cable. BothSidesAreTheSame journalists will line up to fete him as he never breaks even a single vote from McConnell/Trump.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
January 02 2019 20:57 GMT
#20299
On January 03 2019 03:50 Plansix wrote:
5 billion seems like a cheap price to pay to sign DACA into law and put an end to using them as political leverage. I could swallow that pill.

Ah, but it would surely be very bitter to trumpets who could had 25 billion for their wall. A master negotiator indeed.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-03 09:49:55
January 03 2019 09:49 GMT
#20300
So now McConnell's said he outright won't discuss or vote on anything the Democrats send.

What happens if both sides just dig in their heels and refuse? Or more likely, the Democrats keep coming up with reasonable bills and Mitch just refuses to table them?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown-mcconnell/senate-will-not-consider-house-democratic-bills-to-end-shutdown-republican-mcconnell-idUSKCN1OX01I?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=reddit.com
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
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