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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. |
On November 20 2015 17:55 xM(Z wrote:that's half-assed at best. it is true that IS claim most bad shit that happens even when they're not connected to it + Show Spoiler +one could still argue successfully that it's the religion that connects/unites them but saying they're weak is just wrong. they have millions of people under their rule. how the fuck can you win there?. their strength comes from being able and willing to use civilians as a deterrent or as shields. gl wining that kind of urban warfare.
ehhh Millions of people under their rule? Or do you mean hostage?
And ermm whats half assed about it ? Besides you are totally missing the point of what he saying.
He isnt saying go fight ISIS with a proper army, hes saying dont turn on Muslims in your country or the Muslims trying to avoid the conflict.
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On November 19 2015 19:50 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 18:26 Furikawari wrote:She left him in 2008. 8 years ago. From what we know the radicalization process is much faster That wasnt the point, the point is that its not like he grew up in some conservative Islamist household. What that has to do with the speed of the radicalization process is kinda irrelevant. You can get radicalized in a matter of weeks depending on circumstance. Its not like he was religious or conservative and probably related more to a European lifestyle unline those "Islam people" everyones so worried about.
Almost all (I say almost to avoid the smartass with a counter example, to my knowledge it's ALL) terrorists implied physically in problems in France weren't from a conservative family in the first place. They more or less all belonged to small criminality before getting into terrorism.
For the leaders it's a different story, obviously.
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On November 20 2015 18:10 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 19:50 Rebs wrote:On November 19 2015 18:26 Furikawari wrote:She left him in 2008. 8 years ago. From what we know the radicalization process is much faster That wasnt the point, the point is that its not like he grew up in some conservative Islamist household. What that has to do with the speed of the radicalization process is kinda irrelevant. You can get radicalized in a matter of weeks depending on circumstance. Its not like he was religious or conservative and probably related more to a European lifestyle unline those "Islam people" everyones so worried about. Almost all (I say almost to avoid the smartass with a counter example, to my knowledge it's ALL) terrorists implied physically in problems in France weren't from a conservative family in the first place. They more or less all belonged to small criminality before getting into terrorism. For the leaders it's a different story, obviously.
Ok. but then what exactly are you trying to get at? That radicalization takes less than 8 years or that its not conservative Muslims doing the damage, because one is irrelevant to what I was pointing out, and the other one is kinda what im trying to point out.
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On November 20 2015 17:59 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 17:55 xM(Z wrote:that's half-assed at best. it is true that IS claim most bad shit that happens even when they're not connected to it + Show Spoiler +one could still argue successfully that it's the religion that connects/unites them but saying they're weak is just wrong. they have millions of people under their rule. how the fuck can you win there?. their strength comes from being able and willing to use civilians as a deterrent or as shields. gl wining that kind of urban warfare. ehhh Millions of people under their rule? Or do you mean hostage? And ermm whats half assed about it ? Besides you are totally missing the point of what he saying. He isnt saying go fight ISIS with a proper army, hes saying dont turn on Muslims in your country or the Muslims trying to avoid the conflict.
you call them what you want but some of them like ISIS and they all pay taxes. the highest revenue for ISIS comes from tax collections. what they get from oil sales is nice but it isn't their main revenue source.
i didn't miss the point; it was in the spoiler(somewhat). some people can easily argue that what links all the muslims is religion and not proximity nor funding so as long as they share that, you have a weakness in your mists.
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On November 20 2015 18:40 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 18:10 Furikawari wrote:On November 19 2015 19:50 Rebs wrote:On November 19 2015 18:26 Furikawari wrote:She left him in 2008. 8 years ago. From what we know the radicalization process is much faster That wasnt the point, the point is that its not like he grew up in some conservative Islamist household. What that has to do with the speed of the radicalization process is kinda irrelevant. You can get radicalized in a matter of weeks depending on circumstance. Its not like he was religious or conservative and probably related more to a European lifestyle unline those "Islam people" everyones so worried about. Almost all (I say almost to avoid the smartass with a counter example, to my knowledge it's ALL) terrorists implied physically in problems in France weren't from a conservative family in the first place. They more or less all belonged to small criminality before getting into terrorism. For the leaders it's a different story, obviously. Ok. but then what exactly are you trying to get at? That radicalization takes less than 8 years or that its not conservative Muslims doing the damage, because one is irrelevant to what I was pointing out, and the other one is kinda what im trying to point out.
Nowhere, I just wanted to emphasize this fact. Some people around here are quick on blaming all muslims when those people barely have anything to do with traditional muslims.
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On November 20 2015 18:49 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 17:59 Rebs wrote:On November 20 2015 17:55 xM(Z wrote:that's half-assed at best. it is true that IS claim most bad shit that happens even when they're not connected to it + Show Spoiler +one could still argue successfully that it's the religion that connects/unites them but saying they're weak is just wrong. they have millions of people under their rule. how the fuck can you win there?. their strength comes from being able and willing to use civilians as a deterrent or as shields. gl wining that kind of urban warfare. ehhh Millions of people under their rule? Or do you mean hostage? And ermm whats half assed about it ? Besides you are totally missing the point of what he saying. He isnt saying go fight ISIS with a proper army, hes saying dont turn on Muslims in your country or the Muslims trying to avoid the conflict. you call them what you want but some of them like ISIS and they all pay taxes. the highest revenue for ISIS comes from tax collections. what they get from oil sales is nice but it isn't their main revenue source. i didn't miss the point; it was in the spoiler(somewhat). some people can easily argue that what links all the muslims is religion and not proximity nor funding so as long as they share that, you have a weakness in your mists.
Ok but whats the point?
What does that have to do with what that guy is saying ? You are not really getting your thinking across here. All Muslims being linked by religion sounds very nice but we all know thats not true, despite what some people might think.
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What, are you saying they don't have Muslim Telepathy to coordinate their worldwide muslim conspiracy?
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On November 20 2015 19:00 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 18:49 xM(Z wrote:On November 20 2015 17:59 Rebs wrote:On November 20 2015 17:55 xM(Z wrote:that's half-assed at best. it is true that IS claim most bad shit that happens even when they're not connected to it + Show Spoiler +one could still argue successfully that it's the religion that connects/unites them but saying they're weak is just wrong. they have millions of people under their rule. how the fuck can you win there?. their strength comes from being able and willing to use civilians as a deterrent or as shields. gl wining that kind of urban warfare. ehhh Millions of people under their rule? Or do you mean hostage? And ermm whats half assed about it ? Besides you are totally missing the point of what he saying. He isnt saying go fight ISIS with a proper army, hes saying dont turn on Muslims in your country or the Muslims trying to avoid the conflict. you call them what you want but some of them like ISIS and they all pay taxes. the highest revenue for ISIS comes from tax collections. what they get from oil sales is nice but it isn't their main revenue source. i didn't miss the point; it was in the spoiler(somewhat). some people can easily argue that what links all the muslims is religion and not proximity nor funding so as long as they share that, you have a weakness in your mists. Ok but whats the point? What does that have to do with what that guy is saying ? You are not really getting your thinking across here. All Muslims being linked by religion sounds very nice but we all know thats not true, despite what some people might think.
his point was that ISIS is isolated and weak ... but they're not('cause religion-their interpretation of, and hostages-your interpretation of tax payers) so you should still fear them inside and outside their borders.
you should also take into account that you have, on your soil, at least one of the means for radicalization - religion. that means that you can't just do nothing and hope people will be good.
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What?
The fuck. We actually should stop "fearing" Muslims, we need a working Integration/Assimilation into our culture(s) so People don't get disenfranchised and go into small crime and can easily by radicalised by the first charismatic preacher they meet.
Some countries, like France, allready lost allmost a full generation due to being inactive and just „settling“ them in ghettos. But well, you can try again with their children. Atm France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because it basically created a lost generation.
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There is a RAID ongoing (not in France) in Mali in a business hostel. 170/180 people taken hostage. 3 hostage died. At least 10 assailant. Shouts of Allah Akbar before entering the hotel. Seems they let some people out because they knew koran.
Meanwhile in France the "Sens" city will activate a curfew this week-end. We don't know why (my bet is to test it)
EDIT : oh it's only for a neighborhood (or block ?) not the whole city. (Sens is a middle/large city at 2-3 hour of Paris).
http://www.liberation.fr/direct/
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On November 20 2015 19:59 Velr wrote:
What?
The fuck. We actually should stop "fearing" Muslims, we need a working Integration/Assimilation into our culture(s) so People don't get disenfranchised and go into small crime and can easily by radicalised by the first charismatic preacher they meet.
Some countries, like France, allready lost allmost a full generation due to being inactive and just „settling“ them in ghettos. But well, you can try again with their children. Atm France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because it basically created a lost generation.
reading what you want is fine ... ;but you should still fear religious people whom adhere to ISIS interpretation of Koran, outside ISIS controlled territory, which is exactly what i said.
that logic of yours will only work during peace times. as long as you'll be at war with a country, support a military dictatorship in another, let 2342525 people die in another, you will not be able to integrate shit because people will hate you for what you did to their home country even after years and years spent in your Integration/Assimilation regime.
the internet teaches them what you did to their country.
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People living in western world (and able to spout anything on socials thanks to our values) are blaming the west for this? Really? You guys are worse than the terrorists
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On November 20 2015 19:59 Velr wrote:
What?
The fuck. We actually should stop "fearing" Muslims, we need a working Integration/Assimilation into our culture(s) so People don't get disenfranchised and go into small crime and can easily by radicalised by the first charismatic preacher they meet.
Some countries, like France, allready lost allmost a full generation due to being inactive and just „settling“ them in ghettos. But well, you can try again with their children. Atm France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because it basically created a lost generation.
France did a lot to integrate those people actually. In France, the 93 have good infrastructure, two university, good transport. We also have a universal social security, even for non french immigrants, and a system of solidarity that do some job. The problem is not about money but about dignity. Those people have no work, you can invest all you want, it will never do the equivalent of a job, never.
France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because 1) it accepted communautarists discourse for too long and refused to acknowledge that some discourse actually contredict its core value (radical islamism or sionism are such discourse) 2) it is impotent to actually reduce unemployment, especially in the youth uneducated part of our society.
On November 20 2015 20:14 FFW_Rude wrote:There is a RAID ongoing (not in France) in Mali in a business hostel. 170/180 people taken hostage. 3 hostage died. At least 10 assailant. Shouts of Allah Akbar before entering the hotel. Seems they let some people out because they knew koran. Meanwhile in France the "Sens" city will activate a curfew this week-end. We don't know why (my bet is to test it) EDIT : oh it's only for a neighborhood (or block ?) not the whole city. (Sens is a middle/large city at 2-3 hour of Paris). http://www.liberation.fr/direct/
The french sent 40 guys from the GIGN to help.
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On November 20 2015 21:21 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 19:59 Velr wrote:
What?
The fuck. We actually should stop "fearing" Muslims, we need a working Integration/Assimilation into our culture(s) so People don't get disenfranchised and go into small crime and can easily by radicalised by the first charismatic preacher they meet.
Some countries, like France, allready lost allmost a full generation due to being inactive and just „settling“ them in ghettos. But well, you can try again with their children. Atm France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because it basically created a lost generation.
France did a lot to integrate those people actually. In France, the 93 have good infrastructure, two university, good transport. We also have a universal social security, even for non french immigrants, and a system of solidarity that do some job. The problem is not about money but about dignity. Those people have no work, you can invest all you want, it will never do the equivalent of a job, never. France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because 1) it accepted communautarists discourse for too long and refused to acknowledge that some discourse actually contredict its core value (radical islamism or sionism are such discourse) 2) it is impotent to actually reduce unemployment, especially in the youth uneducated part of our society. Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 20:14 FFW_Rude wrote:There is a RAID ongoing (not in France) in Mali in a business hostel. 170/180 people taken hostage. 3 hostage died. At least 10 assailant. Shouts of Allah Akbar before entering the hotel. Seems they let some people out because they knew koran. Meanwhile in France the "Sens" city will activate a curfew this week-end. We don't know why (my bet is to test it) EDIT : oh it's only for a neighborhood (or block ?) not the whole city. (Sens is a middle/large city at 2-3 hour of Paris). http://www.liberation.fr/direct/ The french sent 40 guys from the GIGN to help.
Saw that. Latest news said the terrorists have no more hostages but 18 bodies found.
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Shit, wrong thread, sorry.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:20 SoSexy wrote:
People living in western world (and able to spout anything on socials thanks to our values) are blaming the west for this? Really? You guys are worse than the terrorists
I think the people that lay waste to people's lives and kill dozens and hundreds are slightly worse than the people that vent opinions you (while paraphrasing) disagree with, personally.
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On November 20 2015 19:59 Velr wrote:
What?
The fuck. We actually should stop "fearing" Muslims, we need a working Integration/Assimilation into our culture(s) so People don't get disenfranchised and go into small crime and can easily by radicalised by the first charismatic preacher they meet.
Some countries, like France, allready lost allmost a full generation due to being inactive and just „settling“ them in ghettos. But well, you can try again with their children. Atm France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because it basically created a lost generation.
I'd love western leadership proposing unrepentant integration/assimilation instead of the ghetto "solution." I'm done with the dichotomy of high immigration or you're some anti-immigrant loony. If you can't assimilate, or the moral debate on it's been lost so that nobody even wants to teach western civic traditions, then what's the point?
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On November 20 2015 21:21 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 19:59 Velr wrote:
What?
The fuck. We actually should stop "fearing" Muslims, we need a working Integration/Assimilation into our culture(s) so People don't get disenfranchised and go into small crime and can easily by radicalised by the first charismatic preacher they meet.
Some countries, like France, allready lost allmost a full generation due to being inactive and just „settling“ them in ghettos. But well, you can try again with their children. Atm France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because it basically created a lost generation.
France did a lot to integrate those people actually. In France, the 93 have good infrastructure, two university, good transport. We also have a universal social security, even for non french immigrants, and a system of solidarity that do some job. The problem is not about money but about dignity. Those people have no work, you can invest all you want, it will never do the equivalent of a job, never. France is sitting on a giant powderkeg because 1) it accepted communautarists discourse for too long and refused to acknowledge that some discourse actually contredict its core value (radical islamism or sionism are such discourse) 2) it is impotent to actually reduce unemployment, especially in the youth uneducated part of our society. Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 20:14 FFW_Rude wrote:There is a RAID ongoing (not in France) in Mali in a business hostel. 170/180 people taken hostage. 3 hostage died. At least 10 assailant. Shouts of Allah Akbar before entering the hotel. Seems they let some people out because they knew koran. Meanwhile in France the "Sens" city will activate a curfew this week-end. We don't know why (my bet is to test it) EDIT : oh it's only for a neighborhood (or block ?) not the whole city. (Sens is a middle/large city at 2-3 hour of Paris). http://www.liberation.fr/direct/ The french sent 40 guys from the GIGN to help.
Didn't we have a teacher from France on here somewhere that effective went "yeah we used to, but we gave up on that a while ago"? There's a difference between providing for them and actually integrating them into society.
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EPT
